Ezequiel

what I'm wonderign now... is that all those singles that make it to the celestial kingdom.. whats stopping them from engaging in a romantic relationship?

Because attaining Godhood would mean endless glory. The Father is still progresses in His glory, because His righteous children glorify Him. By forfeting the divine ability to procreate spiritual children, then you are denying yourself the opportunity to grow in glory and thus passing up the opportunity to truly attain Godhood.

I also would like to add that, in the way I understand it, the reason why the faithfully endowed cannot become exalted without entering in the everlasting covenant of marriage, is simply because the only way to Godhood is by procreating spiritual children. At which case, if you do not have a eternal companion, it wouldn't happen. You cannot have children on your own.... no matter how enlightened and righteous. You need two to tango... :)

No, no. Do not fret. :) You have no dissadvantage for being a female. The General Authorities usually say, as mentioned by Just_A_Guy and Pam, that if we were not married of no fault of our own, while still being faithful, Heavenly father will not withhold the blessings of exaltation to that someone. I have heard before, though I dont have a resource to prove it at the moment, that the millenium will also be a time where the just will be able to marry as well. Just because we arent married in this life, doesn't take away the possibility of being given the opportunity later. I have heard different speculations and ideas concerning that, which none I feel too confident to talk about, but be joyfull in your heart to know that God is a successfull parent, and in His perfect justice, you will be rewarded for your faith. Wether in this life or not...

yeah.... I dont have any, But i was close to getting one during my akward "young adult rebelious years" Although I already lost inetrest on what I initially wanted. Its a good thing i neevr did get one

Now to the original post: I wondered that many times... I dont know what is the second degree within the celestial kingdom. I dont think it has been revealed yet.

There are different degrees within the celestial kingdom appart from the other two glories, that we are talking about here. To qualify for a celestial glory, the only requirement is to be baptised and endure to the end of your life in righteousness. Thats it thats all. That is Salvation. But to make it to the highest degree within the celestial kingdom, it is required for one to enter into the covenant of celestial marriage (you called it a sealed marriage). Only then can one become as God and have eternal increase. The is Exaltation. These verses explain it very easily: 1 In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees; 2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and deverlasting covenant of marriage]; 3 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it. 4 He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an aincrease. (D&C 131|1~4) I hope this answers your question :)

PrisonChaplain, I myself enjoyed reading your post as well. I'm glad to see you took the time to sincerely understand the LDS theology. I really appreciate the approach you took to the issue where so many jump to conclusions that often lead to misconceptions. I have to admit, that I myself learned from your posts too though. They are always very uplifting and faith promoting. Thanks for being part of this online community, and for contributing in such a positive way!

Well, the sinless part of your question is a litle confusing. Anyone that receives a celestial glory will be redeemed from their sins. Or, their sins will be forgiven and forgotten. In that sense, they will be sinless - and only then they can be resurrected in the morning of the first resurrection. The best example I can give you though, about someone who has received the ordinances by proxy and received a celestial glory is Alvin Smith, the brother of the prophet Joseph Smith. Alvin had died before the gospel was restored and so he was never baptised by the proper authority. But the Lord revealed to Joseph Smith that he would also be redeemed and be received into the celestial kingdom. Take a look at these verses: 1 "The heavens were opened upon us, and I beheld the celestial kingdom of God, and the glory thereof, whether in the body or out I cannot tell. 5 I saw Father Adam and Abraham; and my father and my mother; my brother Alvin, that has long since slept; 6 And marveled how it was that he had obtained an inheritance in that kingdom, seeing that he had departed this life before the Lord had set his hand to gather Israel the second time, and had not been baptized for the remission of sins. 7 Thus came the avoice of the Lord unto me, saying: All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God; 8 Also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom " (D&C 137|1, 5~8) When the doctrine of Baptism for the Dead was revealed, I think Joseph was baptised in behalf of his brother Alvin. It was one of the first few proxy baptisms done in our dispensation. And its obvious that eventually all the other ordenances were done in his behalf as well. The point is - yes, they can be counted among the righteous and resurrect in the morning of the resurrections of the just, but alot is riding on the opportunities they had in mortality, and in their attitudes and desires. If it was not possible for the dead to be redeemed and be counted among the resurrection of the just, their wouldnt be much point in the proxy work, and the dead wouldnt have had an equal opportunity at exaltation. I hope this answers your question. I tried my best to be direct without branching into other concepts and doctrines that are tied to this.

I believe the people that will be born during the millenium will have to go through some kind of probation too.

Yes He was. There would have been no ressurrection for anyone untill Jesus Christ Himself was ressurrected. there is a certain specific order to the resurrection, and Jesus being the first is refered to as "The Firstfruit of the Resurrection" as stated in Corinthians "But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. " (1Corinthians|15:23) The scriptrues make mention of other resurrections that have happened since the one of our Lord. It is recorded in Matthew: "And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose " (Matthew|27:52) and then we also know of Peter, James, and John the Baptist have also resurrected, and we know because they visited Joseh Smith to ordain him into the Priesthood. I feel like I need to learn more on the subject. I've heard some expand alot on this doctrinal key. If you think about it, it is the most important one!

Oh definetly. I realise my post was kind of rushed. I was on my way out! I hope I didnt confuse anyone. But its clear that its necessary for both the living and the dead to repent. There is no celestial glory for anyone if there is no repentance. So yeah.. we are both on the same page

judgment comes after the resurrection, and between ressurrection and judgement there is no time for repentance. I like to think that resurrection is like the "probationary finish line" Once it happens there are no more chances. However, the earlier question you asked if those that repented in the after life, if they could still inherit a celestial glory, and the answer is yes. But only depending to the opportunities they've had in their mortal state. There are those who in the next time will accept the gospel, but will not inherit a celestial glory because they had the chance to accept it here in mortality but didnt.

hey I couldnt read the whole thread, but in case it hasn't been said, I think this is a good opportunity for you to bring some positive changes in his life. If it has been said, than I endorce the idea. EDIT: wow... 10 pages! The atmosphere sure has changed here.

AH!!! Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was so tired of these threads. I dont even get why they are in this section of the forums - they dont belong here. They are discussed more than they should be and generally lead into nothing. I agree. Lets please not dwell on those topics!

I'm so glad you mentioned this. In the last few months of my mission, I was reading and studying everything I could about covenants. I think they are what makes us bound to Heavenly Father, and Him to us. I dont think anyone can be so brash to make a statement that they are close with God, when they have no intentions of making covenants, or keeping the ones they've already made. I take my covenants very serious. Which is why I get so frustrated when I brake them. I also think that its necessary to be reminded often of those covenants and the commandaments, because we may not forget the meaning or doctrine behind it, but we can get really casual about keeping them.

well... I suppose you cant just always know. But I'm very confident in saying that that has to do with the personal faith of one. For me, I'm not keeping score like "Hey God! I did this, so you owe me this..." I simply go about doing good. Working my hardest. Striving my best to live the commandaments and be faithfull to them, and I have full faith that God will bless me in due time. I do think that sometimes we will be in special needs. In those situations, I think its appropiate to remind God that you have done so and so to receive X blessing. However, I dont think it necessarily important to keep a detailed list of every good thing we've done in order to see if He is keeping his side of the promise. I also think that its important to remember that He blesses us in a far more abundant way that we are able to recognize. That kind of outweights the things He revokes from us or the punishments that befall us. I also feel like this scripture is relevant here.. 30 Who am I that made man, saith the Lord, that will hold him guiltless that obeys not my commandments? 31 Who am I, saith the Lord, that have promised and have not fulfilled? 32 I command and men obey not; I brevoke and they receive not the blessing. 33 Then they say in their hearts: This is not the work of the Lord, for his promises are not fulfilled. But wo unto such, for their reward lurketh beneath, and not from above. (Doctrine and Coventans|58:31 ~ 33)

Wow, I understand your heartache to an extenct. I have encoutered this sort of testomny-crushers before. It sucks. Let me just come out and say it. Dont regret your decision. Going into the waters of baptism has been possibly the single best idea you've ever had. You have had the opportunity to make a personal covenant between you and God - the Father and Creator of all things. And you've done it by someone who has the right authority to do it! That is something sacred and divine, and sadly not many people has had the chance. What a wonderful joy and opportunity. This is the way we bind ourselves to God. I congratulate you for your decision!!! Now, I must admit that naturally with a covenant of such great worth, you better believe that Satan - the father of all lies - and his hosts will try to do every single thing to hold you back! My only advice for you, is to counter all this doubt with knowledge. Pure, wholesome, spiritual knowledge. I can promise you that by meaningful study, prayer and fasting, you can have the Spirit bear witness of truth to your very soul. These feeling sometimes can be strong enough to conquer the frail and limited knowledge of man. In that manner, you can "see without seeing, and hear without hearing." That is how we gain spiritual knowledge. I encourage you to go and study your scriptures. Feast on them. Devour them! Become a scholar and a master of your scriptures. If you dont understand something, look for truth in other trustworthy sourcess, like gospel manuals and our inspired leaders. Learn how the Spirit works and communicates with you, because no one can disprove what the Spirit has taught you on a personal one-on-one level. Its a very intimate and profound thing, and sometimes we will doubt and feel confused, but those feelings will remain and they will be hard to let go of. If you can remember when the missionaries would come over and ask you to read your scriptures and pray, it was only because they were trying to teach you how to develop this relationship. Good luck on your quest! Dont be discouraged, because the Lord always opens the doors to those that seek and knock!

Well, I have to admit that I cant believe that no one has mentioned the scriptures yet. I think the answer to this question is plain and simple. This is what the Lord had to say to Joseph Smith: "20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated— 21 And when we obtain any ablessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated" (Doctrine and Covenats|130:20 - 21) Period. To the OP: I think you are missing the main point. Our Father is a perfect being. He freely gives and revokes from His children according to His will. He knows that sometimes witholding a blessing will be for the best. I assure you though, that as we are obedient and faithfull the blessings will ALWAYS come. I feel like the scenario you described is a very poor example and shows a limited understanding of the relationship between our Father and us. But at the same time, its something that everyone has thought of at one point and another. Sometimes we may not see an immidiate blessing. But we must keep in mind that our Father is perfect, and with that He is perfectly merciful, perfectly caring and He wants to be involved in our lives. He only expects us to be obedient at all times and faithfully wait for the blessings He promised us, in His own timing.

I think that in sunday school and other similar church meetings, its better to have discussions. I feel like they are more conductive to the Spirit, because we see a pool of ideas and perspectives. We can find inspiration, and learn from many different insights. If everyone has something of worth to contribute, debates become rich and valuable! Whereas, in a debate, aside from causing contention, it usually leads to nothing, as everyone wants to be right, and other opinions are not expressed. Debates usually explore only opposing or conflicting sides of a topic, usually ignoring that there could be other possibilities. I feel debates are somewhat limited where thoughts and ideas either get narrowed down to two black and white issues, or blown up to the point it has litle relevance at all. to the OP: I think that sister was right, we should seek to discuss and explore, and not debate - there is another time and place for that.

@ Snow : I think this is a ridiculous argument. The point is that our prophets have been preordained to their earthly calling. If God did want them to be of different nationalities, He would have done so! Lets remember the prophet is to represent the Lord and not a specific nation!

well... John taylor was canadian, no?

woah, for some reason I thought this was a different thread and missed aso much of it! I just wanted to ask about another prophecy! I have heard that the year before the second coming, there would be NO rainbows... Has anyone else heard of this? I heard it so many times, but I have no reference to this! Is it scriptural? Was it said by a church leader? Just... what!?!?!? Where did this 'prophecy' come from?

I colour code my scriptures to the five lessons from Preach My Gospel Lesson 1 - The Restoration - blue Lesson 2 - The plan of Slavation - orange lesson 3 - The Gospel of Jesus Christ - green lesson 4 - Commandaments - purple lesson 5 - Laws and Ordinances - yellow and then, anything that is of special interest to me, I colour it red. Also, I differenciate from highlighting a whole verse and underlighting sections of it for highly important matter, highlighting a whole verse for important verse, underlining a verse for less important matter, and and partially hihglighting to even lesser important. I also write brief notes and word son the margins and keep a study journal with me throught all my studies, which I keept pretty organized as well by the five lessons, the cannonical books, and different topics! It may seem confusing, but really is not at all. Its very clear! I think anything falls into these 5 chategories, or 4 sub chategories of importance to me...

What do you mean? I want to know what you are talking about :)