Ezequiel

my only expectation of missionaries, if for them to be obedient and live a high conduct of morality. I think that there is nothing more dissappointing than to see missionaries that are dissobedient and casual about their conduct.... Since I've come home from my mission, I only seem to find those kind of missionaries...

I agree with all of this. But you know how they say that everyone will see Him? Maybe he'll show up on TV as well

oops! I hope my name doesn't show up! I totally voted to the WRONG answer. I just didn't get it at first. I R dumb! I agree that this isn't much of a problem based on our time era. I think it would be ridiculous for us to tell our children to not get married to the filistines and ammonites. Hahahaha. In our time, the Gospel is being preached ot all peoples nations and tongues... what would be the point if certain races couldn't "make it"?

for some reason that source seems a litle iffy for me. I dunno, things are spelled all weird and too many capitalized words...its a litle strange. Not to mention that its like - a lonesome blank webpage floating in cyberspace by itself... However speaking of the subject, I believe that our spiritual bodies were created at one point or another by our Heavenly Parents from the already existing intelligences. I dunno when gender was decided, but I suppose it would have to be very early in the creation of our spirt bodies. Gender is a very defining part of our entities, and it wouldn't make sense to let that be decided in the womb of our mothers. I think its all so interesting.... Here is a thought - If heavenly father's honor is His power, and He is able to command the elements themselves through this power to create and move and whatnot, then where would the Heavenly Mother come in at? Does she need to carry spirits in her womb for 9 months too???

misshalfway got it. but I have read as well, that if someone on earth had the total opportunity of receiving the gospel, and the Spirit had bore its truthfulness to the person, and they still reject it, they ca accept the gospel in the spirit world, but he wouldn't progress to the celestial kingdom... maybe someone can clarify that a litle more? Personally,I think there are alot of cases that seem a litle abnormal, but in the end Jesus Christ will be the Judge, and His judgements will be perfect!

how so!? under whose authority???

I just want to add my own thoughts on the issue. I think this is an important topic to talk about. It should concern all of us. I think the church is an incredible institution. While there are many within the church who are very intolerant of those who struggles with SSA, there are many who arent. The spiritual needs of those people are being met. There is tons of help being offered. The struggler (in this case, I like to refer to them as 'warriors' instead), just needs to work up the courage to open their mouths and ask for that help. I think there is the huge misconception when we think of homosexuality and same gender attraction. One who has a same sex orientation is not a sinner - and can still receive all the blessings of the gospel, as long as they live by the commandaments. If we could all be more educated in this topic though, I think less people would be afraid to cry out for help, and there would be fewer suicides. I agree that there isn't as much aid in this topic as there are of other topics, but the bit that there is, is quality and valuable information, and very helpful. We just need to stop looking for a reason or origin of the problem, and focus on rightous living. Afterall, the goal of a faithfull lds is not heterosexuality, but holiness! here is an interesting site put up by a few members of the church - anyone who deals with this issue should read their articles and join their message boards. Its a group of very faithfull Latter-day saints who deal with this issue! http://www.lds-ssa.org

ok, so I guess, it would have to go with something like importance and relevance to the story!? As I continue to meditate this subject, I keep thinking of a bunch of women who not only are named, but celebrated for their righteousness and importance... Thanks for all your insights!

I was having a very good conversation with my sister in law. She is a recent convert of about three months. Since she has been baptised, we hold a daily joint scripture reading group with me, her, and my younger brother. They are very good, 'cause we often discuss very important topics of religion. However, the other day as we studied, somehow the conversation led to her explaining how she used to have a grudge with the fact that the scriptures doesn't make mention of of women's name. For example, we never find out about the name of the wives of many Book of Mormon prophets, and even many others. While she realises that women play very important roles in the scriptures, and her 'grudge' is gone, she still wants some sort of explanation. I just didn't know what to say to her!! Does anybody have any idea as to what could be the reason why some women go nameless in the scriptures?

hey welcome to the board. Thats totally awsome. Now I have someone to run to when I have computer problems!~ :)

I'am not saying we will be judged on our premortality though. I'am saying that we will have a recollection of agreeing to the terms of the Plan of Salvation that was presented to us in the Councill of Heaven, and then having the perfect recollection of not living up to them on mortality, and thus heaving a "perfect guilt". This is what makes sense to me.

yeah but if those that "are righteous shall be righteous still, and those that are wicked, shall be wicked still" and their desires and moral etiquettes will not change, then if they don't feel bad for their sins here, they wouldn't there before God. Lucifer, as well as the wicked spirits Jesus Christ found during His mortal ministry did not feel repentant or guilty by being in His presence. I can see that what you are saying is definetly a part of it - but not all. For someone who did not hear the gospel in mortality they have no reaosn to feel guilty. The scriptures say "where there is no law, there is no punishment". You would not feel guilty for braking a law you didn't know existed. So for what other reason would you feel guilty? I really don't have anything that says that that will be the moment that you will regain your memories from the premortality, but as we discuss more this subject and I try to validate my point it just makes more and more sense to me(or am I losing sanity :) ). I don't have a problem admitting I'm wrong, but it sure seems like that to me at this moment. I really think you'd feel awfull because you will have a recollection of yourself vowing to keep the commandaments in the premortality and then you were not valiant on earth like you promised your Father, in person, you would. Doesn't that seem like a reason to feel as guilty as the scriptures say you will? I'm at work right now, and don't have the scriptural references I'm basing my opinion on. I suppose I need to study more on the subject also! =)

but why would we feel guilty if we didn't remember we agreed to follow Christ in the premortality!?

well... according to the scriptures, a Prophet has the main function to first and foremost to be a living witness of the divinity of Christ and His Gospel. They are essencial in the great Plan of Salvation. They testify of Christ! They can only be Prophets if they have been commissioned by Christ to testify before the whole world of Him. That on its own, makes up a prophet. Of course, we know prophets also do many other things, but they are just an appendage to that fact. There are many people who believe that man and women have the same equal opportunity to be a prophet. Infact, I even met a woman claiming to be one in my mission. However, its impossible to be a prophet without the priesthood authority. There is, a Gift of the Spirit thats called the Gift of Prophecy. This gift is different than being appointed and called a prophet. They are two different things, and having this gift, does not make one a prophet. "The Book of Revelations" explains the Gift of Prophecy as "worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." (Rev 19:10) To tesitfy with true conviction, is having the gift of prophecy. In that sense, since I imagine you, as well as I, have a testimony of Christ, we would be excericing that same gift, or spirit......but we would not be prophets. Now, in the New testament, in the Gospel of Luke, we find a small reference to Anna, a prophetess. While its easy to think that she would be the same as a Moses, or Joseh Smith, simply by the title that is given to her, she does not have the priesthood and did not held any keys of presidency - so she was not a prophet, but rather someone who just had the gift of prophecy. We also find more examples of prophetesses in the old testament. I hope this helps!~ =)

that was a wonderful talk. Its completely true though. I wish more people would see the simplicity and beauty of the gospel. In my mission, I found plenty of people that expressed the need to find God in some really strange, confusing and logical ways. I think this talk suited them. If only I had the talent to speak and teach as the general authorities.... It saddened me to see people tell me that men cannot understand God and know His motives. While this is true to a certain extent - I hate to think of God as a great blob of nonthingness shrouded in mistery, who doesn't have a voice, and purposely makes reaching Him a "mission impossible" thing. Its offensive to even think of that!

there are plenty of references concerning the judgement and receiving a recollection of our memories/guilt. I totally agree with the comment about that being the time we are able to remember our premortality. Imagine how familiar everything will be when we see God face to face!? There is actually a quote about that...I don't remember who said it or how it went.

I also had a questions about this - or related to celestial polygamy. I have always felt embarassed to ask this question to anyone because I feel it may be in the verge of being blasphemy. But Heavenly Father.... is He Himself a polygamist? That would make sense on why He has been able to have billions and billions of children.

there is a verse of scripture in the Book of Moses that always caught my attention. The reference is Moses 6:57, which is a revelation that Enoch had about a conversation between Adam and God. "57 . Wherefore teach it unto your children, that all men, everywhere, must repent, or they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God, for no unclean thing can dwell there, or dwell in his presence; for, in the language of Adam, Man of Holiness is his name, and the name of his Only Begotten is the Son of Man, even Jesus Christ..." Furthermore, in the book "Jesus The Christ" by Talmage - he explains that the title of Jesus Christ "Son of Man" is refering that Jesus Christ is the "Son of Exalted Man" So, to me, thats a clear reference that God is indeed a Man. Wether He had to go through a period of probabtion and mortality would simply be speculation, but I would immagine that He would have had to go through some sort of growing stage where He grew from "grace to grace" as well. I don't know. But definetly food for thought though. Hordak: I'd like to know the source of that quote, if I may! =)

I read once that there is a certain symbolism behind it too. Don't quote me on 'cause I don't remember where I read it - but quetzal(refering to a bird) and coatl(refering to a serpent) make the feathery serpent icon that Quetalcoatl has been known for. I had read that one of those represented death and the other was a symbol for resurrection. If thats true, its to hard to NOT associate death and resurrection to Jesus Christ. Although I agree with Justice and Robert that we cant take that as doctrine. I believe that they are the same being, but my faith and testimony are not dependent on that belief.

hey thats incredible, Hank! I'm totally new here as well, but I still wanted to say hi to a fellow northener! Heheheheh, I'm a resident of the Northwest Territories!!! Good luck with everything - hopefully your baptism will work out sooon!

Hey you guys, I joined this site. After lurking around here for a day or two I realise I wanted to become a member as well. My name is Ezequiel and I'm a recently returned missionary. I served in the California Ventura mission - the greatest mission there is This seems to be a very vibrant forum and full of activity, so I'm excited be here. I'm looking forward to getting to know you guys and having some good conversations! See you around