mikbone

Kool. What kind of surgery is she gonna have? I'm an Orthopaedic Surgeon, and spent 3 months on a Spine rotation.

Just to make it a bit more confusing. Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, Vol.2, p.123-125 ---Bold Print irritatingly added by myself.--- Question: "There are several references testifying to the fact that the Lord appeared to ancient prophets before the flood, yet we read in the Book of Mormon, Ether 3:6-16, that the Lord had never shown himself to man prior to the days of the Brother of Jared. What explanation can be offered to clarify this apparent contradiction?" It is true that the Savior appeared to the prophets before the flood, but it is evident that he did not reveal himself in the fullness as he did to the Brother of Jared. Talking "face to face," as stated in this revelation, does not mean that the Lord did not appear in a cloud; or, that his body was partially hidden from the view of the prophet. All of this could occur and yet the Lord still be partially, if not completely, hidden from the prophet's view. The great difference rests in this, which the conversation of the Lord with the Brother of Jared clearly indicates: The Savior was conversing with the Brother of Jared in person, yes, evidently face to face, yet the Lord was hidden by a veil. The Brother of Jared knew that the Lord was there, but evidently he did not understand that the Lord had a body apparently of flesh and bones. Through his great faith he was able to see the finger of the Lord when the Lord touched the stones. So astonished did the prophet become that he fell to the earth in fright, fearing that the Lord might strike him. ... So the Savior showed to the Brother of Jared his entire body just as it would appear when he dwelt among men in the flesh.

You can absolutely put me in the category of uncertainity as to the type of spirit/body that Jehovah displayed to the Brother of Jared. But im leaning (heavily) toward flesh and bone. "Even after the manner and in the likeness of the same body even as he showed himself unto the Nephites."

I made a detailed post about it awhile back but no one wanted to play. http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/19807-what-type-body-did-jehovah-show-unto-brother-jared.html

Ether 3:17 And now, as I, Moroni, said I could not make a full account of these things which are written, therefore it sufficeth me to say that Jesus showed himself unto this man in the spirit, even after the manner and in the likeness of the same body even as he showed himself unto the Nephites. Anyone?

And why do you suppose that their names were not to be revealed? Reminds me of Moses being introduced to Jehovah as I AM that I AM. or Genesiss 32:29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. Apparently there is some kind of power in a name...

Nephi wrote his plates in reformed Egyptian, but I bet that many of the prophets in between Nephi and Mormon wrote in their native tongue.

Don't tease. Which figures?

$10 on the first three. Any takers?

Contuining from post #10 So lets go back to the painting. Not only was the setting and the age of Mormon incorrect. Apparently Moroni was with Mormon during this experience [Mormon 8:11]. This also has some pretty kool implications. How many of the Nephites do you think could read and write in Reformed Egyptian? I'm thinking VERY few. I would bet a million pesos that Moroni assisted Mormon in editing the Golden Plates. It would definately be the best way for Mormon to teach Moroni the Egyptial language. And it would greatly speed up the production of the Golden Plates. Whenever I see that painting I now picture both Mormon and Moroni seated at a table sitting across from each other one reading from the Hebrew and the other writing in Reformed Egyptian. Anyway back to the visitation of the 3 Nephites to both Mormon and Moroni. What an awesome experience this must have been! Verse 26 states that these men were the Lord's three disciples, and that they ministered unto Mormon. I imagine that both Mormon and Moroni had many questions. They were probably most interested in what had previously been transcribed into what we now known as 3 Nephi chapter 11. The three Nephites were direct witnesses of the newly resurrected Christ and the Father's testimony. Mormon probably asked the disciples what it was like to place their hands into the Lord's side, and to feel the prints of the nails in his hands and feet. They asked the disciples what their names were, and they were given them. They told Mormon of their special mission and what they had been doing over the past three hundred years. They explained some of the rules that they had to abide. For goodness sake, they told Mormon and Moroni that they would be among us, the Gentiles 1500 plus years into the future. They explained in detail and demonstrated the type of change that had occurred to their bodies. They related how they no longer suffered pain nor temptation, and that they were more powerful than any force upon the earth. This must have given much hope to Mormon & Moroni considering their situation with the stubborn Nephites and impending war. I assume that they spent many hours with the disciples and had most of their questions answered. Finally the disciples told them that they had to go, and Mormon reluctantly let them leave. Then the following morning, Mormon & Moroni went back to the library to continue work on the Golden Plates. Mormon had great news to share with us and was desirous to put in writing the whole encounter. As he began to write down the names of the disciples, he heard the voice of the Lord who stated what Mormon could and could not engrave about the encounter. The above scene very much resembles an encounter that occurred in modern times found in Joseph Smith History 1: 66-75. It would not surprise me if the resurrected Moroni had counseled Joseph Smith to get a scribe in the first place. Moroni knew that Joseph Smith had to complete the translation in a short period of time, and he knew from past experience that the translation would not be easy without help.

No, I didn't get their names. Still workin on that one. Back to verse 24. Mormon stops his writing here. This is significant Let me digress for a bit and give some background. I picture this point in Mormon's abridgement of the Nephite history as a very similar scene to Tom Lovell's painting, Mormon Abridging the Plates that depicts Mormon writing the chapter, The Words of Mormon. With a little research and simple math we find out that the writing of The Words of Mormon took place approximately during Mormon's seventy-fourth year of life [Mormon 1:6 (Age 11 at year 322 A.D.), Words of Mormon v. 2 (year 385 A.D.)]. The collection of plates that Ammaron had hidden in the Hill Shim had been removed ten years earlier by Mormon and taken unto himself so that the Lamanites would not have access to the records [Mormon 4:23]. This painting appears to be in the setting of a temple or large residence. In reality Mormon was probably not in a beautiful building because at this time he had just moved his people to the land of Cumorah and had apparently written the material between The Words of Mormon and Mormon chapter 6 within the self-same year [Mormon 6:2-6]. Regardless, in the painting Mormon is sitting on a bench with a papyrus written in Hebrew lying across his thigh and he is using a stylus to inscribe Reformed Egyptian onto the Golden Plates, which are lying on a table [Mormon 9:32-33]. Behind Mormon is a wall full of plates and papyri that would love to get my hands on. If you look at Mormon's face you will notice that he is contemplating. Mormon's face is the most important part of the painting in my opinion. Now lets go back to 3 Nephi chapter 28, and imagine Mormon at age 74, at the point where he has just finished abridging the material concerning the physical state of the bodies of the Three Nephites in verse 17. Mormon is confused as to whether the Three Nephites bodies are mortal or immortal but he continues to write eight more verses while considering the miracles that the disciples were able to accomplish with their transfigured bodies. Finally in verse 24 he calls it quits and does something very intelligent. From verse 37 we learn that Mormon fell to his knees and decided to pray to the Lord for enlightenment. I picture Mormon hearing a knock on the door of his library during the conclusion of his sincere prayer. He wonders who is knocking, and goes to investigate. To his surprise, when he opens the door, he sees three personages...

You got part of it Justice. The really kool part happens between verses 24 & 25. But there is more in the footnotes, take a peek at the one in v 26. :)

Yeah, I made a post about the Alpha and Omega title earlier...

Yeah, thats a good one. I wonder how the original commandments were worded or if there were more or less than 10. Its a pity that Moses felt the need to destroy them.

I have been wanting to put together a list of passages in the scriptures, but primarily the Book of Mormon, where the lord has seen fit to limit the amount of information to be revealed because these things are 'hid from the world'. I'll start with one. If you do a quick reading you probably won't pick up on it. But if you read it carefully you can understand that something pretty darn kool happened that is not directly expressed. It's in 3 Nephi chapter 28. 1) Original 10 Commandments 2) Sealed 2/3 portion of the Golden Plates 3) Names of the 3 Nephites 4) Facsimile #2 5) 'Body of my Spirit' that Jehovah revealed to the Brother of Jared in Ether 3

I am also having alot of difficulty with your website. The images appear to be well drawn and colorful, but with the size and resolution I have a very difficult time reading the words. You also have so many "scrolls" that I wouldn't know where to start. Perhaps if you were to pick a single scroll and post some scriptures or church doctrine supporting your position we could have a discussion???

I'm gonna have to agree. When it comes to the time of judgement. I believe that there will be no confusion bewteen either judge or the person being judged as to what type of reward is deserved. I have imagined that we will be completely aware of the rules and regulations concerning the judgement. Then that we would review our life (circumstances, actions, and thoughts) in the presence of our Judge. And we would be aware that the Judge understands our thoughts and feelings. If this is the scenario, it will be obvious as to which reward we deserve. We will not have to be told. Just thinking about this inspires me to be a better person.

God is the only one who can answer that question. No one here in this forum is qualified to judge you. The most basic requirements as I see them are as follows: Outer Darkness - You must KNOW the Savior (a knowledge about him well beyond faith alone) and then reject him. There are very few of these people... Telestial - You have to willfully break the commandments and have no remorse for doing so, basically you must be wicked. Terrestrial - You must strive to follow the 10 commandments because you know and feel that it is the right thing to do. Celestial bottom - You must follow the commandments and the other teachings of Jesus Christ and be baptized. Celestial middle - You must be baptized and be ordained with the Melchizedek priesthood (if your male) and strive to magnify your priesthood. Celestial top - You have to enter into the New and Everlasting Covenant and strive to comply with all the requirements of that covenant. Also important to realize is that no one will be consigned to a kingdom till after the final judgement that is after the millennium. And that people can continue to progress even after Death (albeit repentance is much more difficult in the next life compared to this one). After this life there will be a preliminary judgement that will place people into one of two locations, Spirit Prison or Paradise. I'm not exactly sure what is the delineation between the two, but I think that if you qualify for the Terrestrial Kingdom or above that you go to Paradise. If you only qualify for the Telestial Kingdom you are consigned to go to Spirit Prison. And even if person ends up in Spirit Prison, he or she can make amends and accept the gospel and moved from Spirit Prison into Paradise. So to answer your question, I would ask. Are you wicked?

I think that there is a bit more in the title Alpha and Omega than just the beginning and end. And thanks Justice for pointing out that it is another way of expressing the concept of Eternity. I think that there is a deeper meaning in the title specifically with reference to First and Last not Beginning and End. Although Alpha and Omega do obviously refer to a beginning and end. For example: Alpha - Could be another way of refering to his Firstborn status Omega - 1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Omega could be refering to Christ as the Last Adam. Isiah 44:6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. I have also wondered if there is a correlation between Alpha and Omega and verses like Matt. 19: 30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first. One of the Hebrew literary tools that exist is "Notaricon." It is sometimes used to form, or understand words, the letters in a word work as an acronym. The word in Hebrew for truth is אמת (Reading from right to left) which is known as “emet .” “Emet“ is written with three letters, the first א (Aleph), and middle מ (Mem) , and last ת (Tav) in the Hebrew alphabetical order. The Rabbinical tradition is that these letters refer to the concept of past, present, and future. In other words, the word “truth” is made up of the letters placed at the beginning of the Hebrew alphabet, the middle of the alphabet, and the end of the alphabet. The placement of the letters in the alphabet represents the letters' meanings of past, present and future, which aligns nicely with Doctrine and Covenants 93:24 And truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come. Copied from MormonMysticism.com: Notaricon - Emet - Truth

Anyone got some insight as to what this title actually denotes? Alpha seems pretty straight forward, its the Omega that eludes me. Matt. 19: 30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first. First / Last also seems to have a deeper meaning that I'm not getting.

I've read freakonomics. The above statement has multiple inconsistencies thus using it as a platform for your follow-up statements does not give them support. 1) Just because children are not wanted does not mean that they are born into abuse 2) And vice versa, just because a child is wanted does not mean that they will have an abuse free childhood/life. According to your statement though we should be justified in sterilizing all abusive personalities...

Time is an interesting subject. From the special theory of relativity we know that time is dependent upon speed. This is a fact. As you approach the speed of light time slows, and at the speed of light time stops. If we were to move slower time would pass faster for us. The speed that humans move in space determines how we feel time. I have thought that a spirit is composed of a type of organized light and if so a spirit does not experience time as we do because a spirit moves at the speed of light thus time as we reckon it does not exist for them. Gods body is celestial and exalted. We know that blood does not run thru his veins. Some have assumed that a kind of purified light runs his body and thus he also is subject to the laws of physics and does not experience time like we do. How does he experience time? I have no idea. Is he bound by a time scale that we don't comprehend? Probably.

I agree. If he did previously go through a mortal probation and gained his exaltation prior to our pre-existence. It sets him apart. He is something special. Firstborn is a good title.

If we are indeed going to follow in the path that our fathers tread. Then it might be better to understand our futures by looking at the past. Let us imagine... A time long ago when Elohim was passing thru his estate of a savior on the planet Kolob. Jehovah was a mortal man like you and I on Kolob. He sinned, repented, partook of Elohim's atonement, and all of the saving ordinances. He died and was resurrected into the Celestial Kingdom and became a member of the Church of the Firstborn. What would this have accomplished 1) He is married, and had no reason to have a romantic relationship while on our Earth. 2) He has been tempered against sin. 3) He now knows how to resurrect himself. So, he then continues to learn everything (LOTS & LOTS of schooling), and finally when he and his wife are ready, they ask Elohim to start creating Spirit Children for them so that they can continue to progress. If this happened this way then it explains... 4) Why Jehovah was the firstborn. Its not his position of birth. Although he was there before the first of Elohim's spirit children (destined to be in our pre-existence) was created. Jehovah is the firstborn because he is the firstborn. 5) Why Jehovah was more intelligent than all of us combined during our pre-existence 6) Why in our pre-existence, He was the one that was like unto God. 7) Why Jehovah was God. 8) Why Jehovah was aware of Father's Plan of Salvation and why He volunteered to fill the position of savior. 9) Why Jehovah was able to create the Earth Physically. And by the way, this would also allow Jehovah and his Wife to be the biologic parents of Adam and Eve's physical bodies. And If Jehovah was the Father of Adam and Eve's physical bodies... Then it stands to reason that Elohim was the Biologic father of Jehovah's physical body. Thus Jehovah is the only begotten of the Father in the Flesh.

You would have to enter into the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom and become resurrected first. Then you have to go to school and learn LOTS. When you have reached a level of competence then you get the opportunity to embark on the Holy Ghost trial. Then you Learn again. Only when you reach the next level of competence do you then get to try the Savior trial. There are obvious "holes" to this scenario, namely a body. But this can be circumvented.