mikbone

The book of Abraham speaks for itself. Facsimile 2, and the intrepretation is awesome. It matters not to me that Joseph Smith needed a tangeable relic to bolster his faith to receive revelation. An excellent response is found in the ensign I Have a Question - Ensign July 1988 - ensign

show up.

I taught lesson 17 last week in Elders Quorum. The lesson went over great, we didn't shead any tears but all were edified. I am greatly looking foreward to the Lorenzo Snow manual for next year. I think that there is a problem with our society, inside and definately outside of the church. It can be summed up pretty easily. Man-up.

1) No, I do not have any secrets from God, nor have I experienced anything that He cannot understand. 2) This is because He is infinitely more experienced that I (or anyone else). 3) The place where you and I differ is that (please correct me if I am wrong), you seem to believe that if we receive entrance into the Celestial Kingdom we will be gifted with an infinite amount of experience, and knowledge by proxy. It is my belief that with the entrance into the Celestial Kingdom that we will have the opportunity, if we so choose, to continue progression. We will have the capacity to earn further experiences and knowledge by taking on new responsibilities and trials. I do NOT believe that we will be given any experience or knowledge without earning those experiences. As far as I am aware there is no 'Doctrine' concerning these concepts because it is not terribly important to our mortal trial. But common sense and Joseph Smith's King Follett Discourse convinces me that more is in store for those who are worthy. April 7, 1844 Joseph Smith King Follett Discourse as recorded by George Laub

I send all my tithing directly to church headquarters. It's done electronically with bill pay every month and I get e-mail confirmation and yearly tax statements. We let the bishop know that we are full tithe payers at settlement. And no one in my ward has to know what my personal income is... Donations to Church Headquarters - LDSTech

Blog Post - Mormonism in the News: Getting It Right | August 29 LDS Church clarifies caffeine use for faithful | FOX13Now.com – Salt Lake City, Utah News & Weather from KSTU Television FOX 13 "Finally, another small correction: Despite what was reported, the Church revelation spelling out health practices (Doctrine and Covenants 89) does not mention the use of caffeine. The Church’s health guidelines prohibit alcoholic drinks, smoking or chewing of tobacco, and “hot drinks” — taught by Church leaders to refer specifically to tea and coffee." Mt. Dew party at my house!

lol, figured I'd get this response just not from you Vort. Archeologists think that the average size of a male during the time of Christ was 5'1" 110 pounds.

You are the quoting the parable of talents to support your position that the Lord reaps where He does not sow? The beauty of parables is that they are symbolic so they have multiple meanings. My favorite intrepretation is as follows. A talent is a measure of weight. See Matthew 25:14-29, & Bible Dictionary under the heading of weights and measures. A talent is thus both a token of value and a measurement of weight about 75-135 lbs. Talent (measurement) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia So here is the question, in my opinion that makes the parable come to life. What weighs about 75-135 lbs and has value to the Lord? Perhaps the Lord is stating that Men are his servants. And Men (fathers / husbands) that fail in their stewardship shall lose their talents. Those men who were good stewards of their talents shall receive the talents of the poor stewards.

This scripture came to my mind, found in Moses chapter one. Remember this is when Moses is essentially in a temple celestial room. On a mountain top, in the presence of God. 9 And the presence of God withdrew from Moses, that his glory was not upon Moses; and Moses was left unto himself. And as he was left unto himself, he fell unto the earth. 10 And it came to pass that it was for the space of many hours before Moses did again receive his natural strength like unto man; and he said unto himself: Now, for this cause I know that man is nothing, which thing I never had supposed. It appears from these verses that Moses did not feel that he was equal with God. Furthermore, instead of kneeling he fell prostrate upon the ground for the space of many hours. I would bet that Moses at this time was more experienced in spiritual things than your helpful sister...

There are differences. Looking at the example you gave of God knowing what it is like to give birth. My wife just birthed our 10th child. She labored. I stayed there with her and performed the home birth. I served as the delivering physician, husband, and father. I did not feel her feelings, but I have had physical trials in the past & I remembered my feelings during those trials and thus had sympathy for her. But I did not go through the 9 months of carrying the child, experience the pain of labor, or the recovery. No doubt God has gone through experiences worse than childbirth so he can imagine the degree of pain a woman goes through during childbirth. But it is not the same. Not quite. The anatomy class I experienced which was very good, emphasized identifying structures. I passed the class with highest honors. But that class was woefully inept in preparing me for my current vocation. We totally removed the skin from our cadaver before identifying organs. The tissues were totally dead and embalmed. We did not learn variations in innervation or diversity that can occur due to sickness or just simple irregular anatomy. Today when I perform surgery, I have to perform dissection through small incisions, in internervous planes between compartments and be aware of diseased alive tissue with possible irregular anatomy. Anatomy class did not prepare me for Orthopaedic surgery. My residency prepared me for my practice. But I continue to learn on a diaily basis... Yes I did not invent the computer. I do use one on a daily basis and I have learned over the years how to become more proficient at accomplishing tasks with the computer. But... If you put me in a room with all the raw materials that I would need to create a computer on my own. I could not do it. If you want to have your eyes opened check out this site The Toaster Project What do you base this statement upon? Actually Satan hoped that he would be given glory & honor for his works. Moses 4:1Jehovah was willing to follow the Father's plan and give all the glory back to the Father. Moses 4:2 Faith is a complex subject. There is faith that a thing exists. And then there is faith that inspires a person to action. The Lectures on Faith is a great treatise on the subject. Within the lectures one learns that Faith is Power. And that Faith is the principle of action. Without faith that breakfast existed in my kitchen this morning, I might not have gotten out of bed. But I knew that I could make myself breakfast so I got up. 2 Nephi 2:14 And now, my sons, I speak unto you these things for your profit and learning; for there is a God, and he hath created all things, both the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are, both things to act and things to be acted upon. Faith is the principle which gives man the ability to act.

Or perhaps ever further testing... I don't believe in inheritable experience. I also don't want to get into a debate about what Christ did in Gethsemane and on the Cross because we just don't know, but... The Atonement allows Christ to make it as if our sins NEVER occurred, after we go through the steps of repentance. Man cannot be saved in their sins. If you think about the difference between the concept of paying for our sins versus making it as if our sins never occurred. The difference is vast. The Atonement was infinite. Trying to put a quantity of pain or sin that He experienced during that trial is irrational. My past experience has let me to believe so. Dunno. Maybe He dosen't. She must. I am sure that they are a very close couple and that God is perfectly empathic though...

Hypothetically lets say I own a sausage factory. I'm about to retire and I want my son to take over the business. If he has no experience with running a sausage factory how do you think the business will do?

I would suggest that in order for one to have God's experience, one would have to pass through a similar experience. Perhaps that is what we have to overcome... D&C 75:16, 22; D&C 76: 60

I believe that the veil erases memories, not character. Moses 5:24, Abr 3:23 Thoses people with brain damage have altered tests. Character, personality, etc. comes from our true selves, our soul. The soul is the combination of our spirit with the body. It is my personal belief that our physical brain communicates with our spiritual brain. Your argument suggests that personality is a function of 'brain wiring'. I don't see it that way. You may perceive the brain as a complex hard drive. I think of it as a connection to our real, or spiritual brain. I'll try to make analogy to help you see my point. The new large telescopes that we currently employ do not even have the ability to allow a person to view an image through glass directly onto the retina. Why? Because our eyes are very limited in perception. We only see in snapshots of visible light. Instruments can see in entire electromagnetic wavelength, infrared, ultraviolet, x-ray, gamma ray, etc. With this new perception we have discovered so much more about our universe. Neuroscientist, psychologist etc. are like people looking through a spyglass. They can only study a limited portion of the brain. Thus they have come up with concepts like subconscious, ego, superego, etc. So citing current studies about genetics or neuropsych don't really have any relavence to this topic in my opinion. Our souls are infinitely more complex than a collection of electrical impulses.

D&C 130:18 Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection. It makes sense to me that we get to keep the benefits of our labors thru each testing period. So yes I believe that personality, intelligence, habits, etc.., pass from test to test. Finally, any parent with multiple children (I have 10 btw), recognizes that personality is inborn.

Good point. I bet that the Catholic church has a huge depository of 'holy relics'. One of my favorites 'relics' has to be the spear of destiny, and Hitler's obsession with it. But I was trying to focus on objects that we as latter day saints believe to be imbued with miraculous properties. Such as the pot of manna or the brass plates that would never rot nor tarnish. It seems totally rational that a garment made by God's hand would not decay, Moses 4:27.

I recently was introduced to the idea that the garments that were made for Adam in the Garden of Eden by God were handed down from father to son, stolen, and then recovered until they became what we now recognize as Joseph's Coat of Many Colors. See Stolen Garment, and Alma 46:24 Which then made me wonder how many different relics are out there that we believe in. Old Testament Ark of the Covenant 10 comandments - Deuteronomy 31:26 Aaron's Rod & Pot of Manna - Hebrews 9:4 Book of Mormon Brass Plates - Mosiah 1: 16 Urim and Thummin - Ether 3: 23 Sword or Laban Liahona

In my opinion it is implied. Just because there are only 2 groups that are listed does not mean that there are not other groups... Take for instance, Heaven. Many Christians believe that heaven in only one place. LDS group heaven into either 3 or 5 divisions. Depending upon how you look at it.

Yes it is a "third part". The 1828 definition of the word 'part' does not really bring any clarity to the discussion... I bet you that I can divide an orange into 5 unequal parts. I have never seen any mention of 2/3 part in the scripture.

No, I haven't heard any definitive commentary either way. The scripture in question says "third part" not one third. In my mind it is simpler to think of three groups. There have been multiple threads on this site discussing the difference between 1/3 and 3 parts. See http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/42560-1-3-1-3-part-cast-out-heaven.html One third part host all men? | Ask Gramps The point of this thread is to to discuss this third part that is not directly mentioned. Many have indicated that this third group coud have been fence sitters, but that concept never has sat well with me.

From Sunday AM conference Oct 2005, Richard G Scott, Truth Restored. "And they who keep their first estate [that is to be obedient in the premortal existence] shall be added upon; ... and they who keep their second estate [that is, to be obedient during mortal life] shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever." (Abraham 3:24-26)

Yeah, McConkie put forth this idea pre-1978. I never liked that idea. Moses 5:24 seems to imply that Cain was a rotten apple (way worse than a fence sitter) during the pre-mortal existence, yet He still chose Jehovah's plan. Just from general observation of our fellow human beings, I have come to the conclusion that there must have been a wide spectrum of Nobel - lukeware - scumbags that chose to follow Jehovah.

D&C 29: 36 states that a thrid part of the hosts of heaven sided with Lucifer. This third part is not 33.3% but a third part. If so, then it begs the question. What are the 3 parts? While having a discussion with my lovely wife this evening. I came to the realization... Group A - Those spirits who chose to follow Jehovah Group B - Those spirits who chose to follow Lucifer Group C - Possibly this group of Elohim's spirit children were satisfied with their level of progression. They did not want to leave the nest and chose to stay as spirits forever in God's presence.

"The proper way for a man to pray," ****Said Deacon Lemuel Keyes, "And the only proper attitude ****Is down upon his knees." "No, I should say the way to pray," ****Said Rev. Doctor Wise, "Is standing straight with outstretched arms ****And rapt and upturned eyes." "Oh, no; no, no," said Elder Slow, ****"Such posture is too proud: A man should pray with eyes fast closed ****And head contritely bowed." "It seems to me his hands should be ****Austerely clasped in front. With both thumbs pointing toward the ground," ****Said Rev. Doctor Blunt. "Las' year I fell in Hodgkin's well ****Head first," said Cyrus Brown, "With both my heels a-stickin' up, ****My head a-pinting down; "An' I made a prayer right then an' there-- ****Best prayer I ever said, The prayingest prayer I ever prayed, ****A-standing on my head." ************************************Sam Walter Foss.

Revelations 12:11 and they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Alma 43 & 44 can be read allegorically to give insight to the war in heaven: Moroni = Michael the Archangel Zerahemnah = Lucifer Alma 43:45 Nevertheless, the Nephites were inspired by a better cause, for they were not fighting for monarchy nor power but they were fighting for their homes and their liberties, their wives and their children, and their all, yea, for their rites of worship and their church.