mikbone

Satan is a complex character. He is a total enigma to me. I just dont understand his origin or motivaiton. I've tried to study him and every time I do I come away confused. Maybe thats a good thing. I think that Cain is a much more interesting character to study. From Moses 5, we understand that Cain was labeled "Perdition" in the pre-existence (makes ya wonder how he got thru...) Anyway Cain had a visitation by both Jehovah and Satan prior to murdering his brother Abel. Satan did share with Cain the secret combinations. And we know that Cain will rule over Satan, whatever that means.

You had a pre-mortal name before you came to this Earth and were named by your mortal parents. You will be known by that name when you return. This does not mean that you were previously exalted. "Laying ones life down and picking it back up" is a wonderful phrase. When Joseph Smith uses this phrase in the KFD I intrepret it to mean Atone and Resurrect ones self. Not simply to die and be resurrected. The only personage that we know has atoned and resurrected himself was Jesus Christ. Many (including myself) subscribe to the idea that Elohim also atoned and resurrected himself, but we do not have a direct witness of this fact. Only Joseph Smiths' discourse which is pretty convincing. There is no evidence that Joseph Smith ever spoke or inferred that Adam/Michael ever attoned. And Adam obviously could not resurrect himself, he had to wait for Jesus Christ just like everyone else. You can't make an arguement by quoting an obscure document and adding your own ellipses to make the document read the way you want it to. In the original document Brigham Young is speaking about two personages. Father Adam who is obviously Elohim the father of our spirits, and Adam Junior or Michael. The personage who dewlt on an earth previously and recieved a crown and exaltation was Father Adam (Elohim) and not Adam Junior or Michael. Approaching Mormon Doctrine - LDS Newsroom Is a great short document produced by the LDS Chruch that defines the accepted Doctrine of the Chruch, the following is an excerpt: "Not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. A single statement made by a single leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, but is not meant to be officially binding for the whole Church. With divine inspiration, the First Presidency (the prophet and his two counselors) and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (the second-highest governing body of the Church) counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications. This doctrine resides in the four “standard works” of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith. Isolated statements are often taken out of context, leaving their original meaning distorted". It is obvious that the Adam-God theory falls into a category that falls outside of accepted Doctrine. Now if you could string together a serries of scriptures or official declarations that support the idea that Michael was previously exalted I would be impressed.

Great question. The ordinance is valid. But it may not have been sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise. D&C 132:6-7 And as pertaining to the new and everlasting covenant, it was instituted for the fulness of my glory; and he that receiveth a fulness thereof must and shall abide the law, or he shall be damned, saith the Lord God. And verily I say unto you, that the conditions of this law are these: All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, and that too most holy, by revelation and commandment through the medium of mine anointed, whom I have appointed on the earth to hold this power (and I have appointed unto my servant Joseph to hold this power in the last days, and there is never but one on the earth at a time on whom this power and the keys of this priesthood are conferred), are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead. You could comprare it to a sealing that has been perfromed for the Dead. The ordiance has been done but we have no idea if the people on the other side of the veil have accepted the work, or if the Lord will accept their sealing. Even if their marriage was not sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise, it still can be in the future. They do not have to be re-sealed. Do the right thing.

Alright. Lets get this over with. Prove your point. Please define your terms succintly. Because I believe that I can easily refute any claim that Adam Junior/Michael was previously exalted.

L. John Nuttall I don't think I understand where you are trying to go with Nuttall's diary. It is a historical document, agreed. It is not doctrine, agreed. What are you trying to say it is credible and valid at proving? Adam Junior/Michael was not previously exalted. Adam Senior/Elohim was previously exalted. I believe that Jehovah was an exalted man during our pre-existence. Many saints may argue that he was not. But it is obvious that Jehovah was the God of the old testament. He is the great I AM. Jehovah's character and personage during our pre-existence is a much more fruitful discussion to have if you wanna continue having this 'academic debate'. The Adam-God Theory is a losing battle. Nice attempt though.

Can you list your scripture that substantiates that Christ is the creator of Everything in Heavenly Father's dominion? Because your interpretation of D&C 76:24 is not conclusive. Your previous post of Joseph Smiths' interpretation is actually W. W. Phelps' interpretation. Times and Seasons Volume 4, Number 6 Michael Hicks argued that Joseph was not the author of the poetic paraphrase in "Joseph Smith, W. W. Phelps, and the Poetic Paraphrase of 'The Vision'," Journal of Mormon History 20/2 (1994): 63–84. I have reason to believe that Elohim has MANY other creations that Jehovah has no association with. Reading Joseph Smith's teaching with emphasis upon the King Follett Discourse brings one to the conclusion that Elohim has not only created spiritually, but has also created physically previously. John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. The "Heaven" where God resides is located near Kolob (Abr. 3: 3-4, 9, 16). As Christ will eventually rule from our celestialized Earth, Elohim currently rules from his celestialized planet near Kolob. Elohim created physically this planet near Kolob and probably performed his atonement on that planet.

Based on your statement alone... Since Joseph Smith has held the Keys of the Kingdom and will then give these keys back to Michael. Joseph Smith is Greater than Michael??? Your logic fails. Adam transgressed that man may be. Christ never sinned, Christ atoned. In reality the Atonement is the key to exaltation, true power/honor. Elohim is by far the greatest patriarch that we are aware of. This is because he not only atoned, but he also created spiritually. Elohim also created both Adam/Michael and Jehovah. Thus the honor that Jehovah and Adam achieve will also continue to glorify Elohim. Moses 4:1-2 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor. But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever. The Son cannot be greater than the Father. Nor does he wish too.

I give freedom a firm eleven. The importance of freedom cannot be comprehended until it has been lost.

Enmity

Justice is probably correct in saying that Moses 6:50-52 is Jehovah invoking Divine Investiture and speaking as if he is the Father. Even so, this scripture displays 3 seperate and distinct roles. There are many other references to Elohim, Jehovah and Michael as Separate entities. Based upon this and the many subsequent writings of apostles after Brigham Young, it is safe to say that Adam/Michael is not Elohim. There are many options that one can submit to try to bring reason to the sermon that Brigham Young delivered in the Journal of Discourses 1:50. I believe that Brigham Young presented the Adam-God Discourse after a vision that he had. It is possible that even BY was confused and that he possibly misintrepreted the vision. After all Elohim, Jehovah, Adam, and Seth have the exact same appearance. If He was describing "Father Adam" as Michael then his intrepretation was incorrect. I think that he understood the vision though and that his defination of "Father Adam" was the Father of Adam. And that he used the expression "Father Adam" to conceal the true identity of Adam's Father, the man that "commenced the work of creating earthly tabernacles... by partaking of the course material that was organized and composed this earth, until His system was charged with it, consequently the tabernacles of His children were organized from the coarse materials of this earth". Journal of Discourses 4:218 Most believe that Elohim was the father of Adam. I think that there is ample evidence to suggest that in reality Jehovah was the father of the physical tabernacle of Adam/Michael.

I think that is was obvious to Brigham Young that Elohim, Jehovah, and Michael were 3 separate personages. The temple ceremony (in which he assisted greatly in its production) is explicit in its declaration that they were 3 separate beings. Moses 6:50-52 also displays 3 separate personages and Elohim the Father speaking directly to Michael-Adam 50 But God hath made known unto our fathers that all men must repent. 51 And he called upon our father Adam by his own voice, saying: I am God; I made the world, and men before they were in the flesh. 52 And he also said unto him: If thou wilt turn unto me, and hearken unto my voice, and believe, and repent of all thy transgressions, and be baptized, even in water, in the name of mine Only Begotten Son, who is full of grace and truth, which is Jesus Christ, the only name which shall be given under heaven, whereby salvation shall come unto the children of men, ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, asking all things in his name, and whatsoever ye shall ask, it shall be given you.

Perhaps? “The worst fear that I have about [members of this Church] is that they will get rich in this country, forget God and his people, wax fat, and kick themselves out of the Church and go to hell. This people will stand mobbing, robbing, poverty, and all manner of persecution, and be true. But my greater fear for them is that they cannot stand wealth; and yet they have to be tried with riches” (quoted in Preston Nibley, Brigham Young: The Man and His Work [1936], 128).

Spencer W. Kimball, “Our Own Liahona,” Ensign, Nov. 1976, 77 "Another matter. We hope that you who teach in the various organizations, whether on the campuses or in our chapels, will always teach the orthodox truth. We warn you against the dissemination of doctrines which are not according to the scriptures and which are alleged to have been taught by some of the General Authorities of past generations. Such, for instance, is the Adam-God theory. We denounce that theory and hope that everyone will be cautioned against this and other kinds of false doctrine." From the above statement, I take it that the Adam-God theory is generally poorly understood and thus should not be openly taught. I continue to disagree that Adam (the father of Cain & Abel) is the FATHER. Elder Mark E. Petersen, Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, November 1980 Ensign Is also a great article that I highly recommend. It seems to have been addressed to members who misunderstand the role of Adam. D&C 137:3-5 Also the blazing throne of God, whereon was seated the Father and the Son. I saw the beautiful streets of that kingdom, which had the appearance of being paved with gold. I saw Father Adam and Abraham; and my father and my mother; my brother Alvin, that has long since slept; D&C 132:29 Abraham received all things, whatsoever he received, by revelation and commandment, by my word, saith the Lord, and hath entered into his exaltation and sitteth upon his throne. In 137 we see that Elohim and Jehovah are seated in their blazing thrones. But notice how Adam is grouped with Abraham. Indeed from 132 we know that Abraham has entered into his exlatation and no doubt Adam has also, and they are seated in their thrones. But are their thrones equal to the thrones of Elohim and Jehovah's? I think not. Rev. 3: 21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. I submit that there are many thrones. Do we obtain a throne as a King and Priest? Probably. Is the throne that Elohim obtained the one that Adam now occupies? Not in my opinion.

True Elohim is plural for GOD. I have assumed that Elohim stands for God the Father and his Wife/Wives. But this is speculation. The personage that revealed himself to Joseph Smith "One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!" JSH 1:17 Most definately represents Elohim though. HE is who I imagine when pray. In my mind I don't pray to a group of people. I don't see Elohim as impersonal at all. He is aware of us and we pray to him. Unfortunately because of sin we are not allowed to have any significant interaction with him though. I am quite positive that once we pass through the Veil that we will be reunited with Him again. I can't visualize Adam/Michael (Eve's husband, and the father of Cain and Abel) as God the Father. He is far behind Elohim and Jehovah in the path of progression. Yet obviously ahead of you and I. Here is an interesting quote from Waiting for World's End The Diaries of Wilford Woodruff, May 6, 1855, p. 167 "Orson Pratt asks [brigham Young] will Adam or any God continue to make worlds people them taste of Death to redeem them? Answer. I have no doubt but it is his privilege but whether He will do it is a question in my mind." I feel strongly that Adam will excell in his trial in the Office of Messiah. If any of us has a chance of doing well and following in the pathway of exaltation of our Fathers. He is the best equiped in my opinion.

You don't quote any material from which your conclusions are derived. But I assume that you are refering to Brigham Young's Adam-God Theory as found in Journal of Discourse 1:50 I have recently come to grasps with the Adam-God Theory and now understand it much better. And this is primarily due to the scripture 1 Corinthians 15:44-47 This scripture implies that Christ is the Last Adam. I believe that when Brigham Young was commenting about Adam in the Adam-God Theory, that he was not talking about a single individual. It is up to us to distinguish which individual that Brigham Young was commenting upon. 1) Adam is a previously exalted Being and the father of all humans on earth. - Elohim was previously an exalted being and is the Father of the Spirits of all humans on Earth. I suspect that Jehovah was previously an exalted being and that he is the father of the mortal tabernacles of all humans on Earth (Ether 3:14-17). I do not believe that Adam (the mortal father of Cain & Abel) was a previously exalted being prior to his birth on this Earth. 2) Adam is Michael - These names may be a title and may apply to all 3 personages. 3) Michael is "The Ancient of Days" and the Patriarch of our race - All 3 personages are Patriarchs 4) Michael holds the keys to the priesthood and will give them to Jesus at Adam-ondi-Ahman. Yes, as described by Joseph Smith - Instructions delivered sometime in July 1839, Source: Willard Richards Pocket Companion (probably copied in part from notes of John Taylor) 5) Who then is the Father of all living, the leader of the hosts of heaven, and the one capable of giving Jesus authority (keys) in all things? God the Father. - This statement is a bit overreaching in my opinion. You have strung together 3 concepts and then apply all of those concepts to Elohim. I would break them down. The Father of all living is: 1) Elohim - as the spiritual father, 2) Jehovah - as the creator of the physical tabernacles of man, 3) Adam is the father of all of the human race. The leader of the Hosts of Heaven. This can also apply to all 3 members. Elohim is the ultimate God. Jesus Christ will direct the Hosts of Heaven with Michael the Archangle as his main General in the final battle. The one capable of giving Jesus authority (keys) in all things? - Elohim obviously gave Jehovah the priesthood and all his power and keys. Although as quoted above, Michael will deliver his stewardship and priesthood keys back to Christ at the begenning of the Millenium.

Can you be more specific than "this kinda thing". Joseph Smith was privy to much infromation and revelation. Although the important material is faith, repentance, baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, he knew and spoke on much deeper doctrine.

The Book of Mormon clarifies the Bible. In my opinion, without the use of the Book of Mormon as a reference text for interpreting the Bible many basic, pure, and simple truths can and have been easily confounded. 1 Ne. 13: 26, 28-29, 32, 34-35, 40 26 And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away. • • • 28 Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God. 29 And after these plain and precious things were ataken away it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles; and after it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles, yea, even across the many waters which thou hast seen with the Gentiles which have gone forth out of captivity, thou seest—because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of the book, which were plain unto the understanding of the children of men, according to the plainness which is in the Lamb of God—because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them. • • • 32 Neither will the Lord God suffer that the Gentiles shall forever remain in that awful state of blindness, which thou beholdest they are in, because of the plain and most precious parts of the gospel of the Lamb which have been kept back by that abominable church, whose formation thou hast seen. • • • 34 And it came to pass that the angel of the Lord spake unto me, saying: Behold, saith the Lamb of God, after I have visited the remnant of the house of Israel—and this remnant of whom I speak is the seed of thy father—wherefore, after I have visited them in judgment, and smitten them by the hand of the Gentiles, and after the Gentiles do stumble exceedingly, because of the most plain and precious parts of the gospel of the Lamb which have been kept back by that abominable church, which is the mother of harlots, saith the Lamb—I will be merciful unto the Gentiles in that day, insomuch that I will bring forth unto them, in mine own power, much of my gospel, which shall be plain and precious, saith the Lamb. 35 For, behold, saith the Lamb: I will manifest myself unto thy seed, that they shall write many things which I shall minister unto them, which shall be plain and precious; and after thy seed shall be destroyed, and dwindle in unbelief, and also the seed of thy brethren, behold, these things shall be hid up, to come forth unto the Gentiles, by the gift and power of the Lamb. • • • 40 And the angel spake unto me, saying: These last records, which thou hast seen among the Gentiles, shall establish the truth of the first, which are of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, and shall make known the plain and precious things which have been taken away from them; and shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father, and the Savior of the world; and that all men must come unto him, or they cannot be saved.

Wow, I made that post back 3 weeks ago. Yes. That is my point. Only those people who consciously trangress the Ten Commandments will be consigned to the Telestial Kingdom. You ask a great question though. If they don't believe they, or their action, are wicked . . . are they? That is the basis for an insanity plea. Do you think that Hitler knew that he was breaking a commandment when he ordered genocide, or was he justified in his own mind? When Jeffery Dommer killed and ate his victims, did he understand that this was wrong? When King David ordered Uriah on a suicide mission did he realize what he was doing? I don't know... I do think that King David later realized that he had made a collossal mistake, but at the time when he made the order to send Uriah he didn't seem as concerned about his transgression. There are wicked people in our midst, of this there is no doubt.

McConkie in Mormon Doctrine under the title of atonement wrote: "D&C 76:24 That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God which means that the atonement of Christ, being literally and truly infinite, applies to an infinite number of earths". Joseph Smith, Sermon delivered at the General Conference of the Church at Nauvoo, Ill. on October 5, 1840 "Enoch Gen [5:22] And Enoch walked with God after he begat Mathusalah 300 years and begat Sons and Daughters and all the days of Enoch were 365 years and Enoch walked with God and he was not for God took him. Now this Enoch God reserved unto himself that he should not die at that time and appointed unto him a ministry unto terrestrial bodies of whom there has been but little revealed, He is reserved also unto the presidency of a dispensation. and more shall be said of him and terrestrial bodies in another treatise. He is a ministring Angel to minister to those who shall be heirs of Salvation and appered unto Jude as Abel did unto Paul. Therefore Jude spoke of him 14 & 15 verses in Jude. and Enoch the seventh [from Adam] revealed these sayings. Behold the Lord cometh with ten thousand of his saints Translation of Body Now the doctrine of translation is a power which belongs to this priesthood, there are many things which belong to the powers of the priesthood and the keys thereof that have been kept hid from before the foundation of the world. they are hid from the wise and prudent to be revealed in the last times many may have supposed that the doctrine of translation was a doctrine whereby men were taken immediately into the presence of God and into an Eternal fulness but this is a mistaken idea. There place of habitation is that of the terrestrial order and a place prepared for such characters, he had in he held in reserve to be ministring angels unto many planets, and who as yet have not entered into so great a fulness as those who are resurrected from the dead. See Heb 11 Chap part of the 35 verse "others were tortured not accepting deliverance that they might obtain a better resurrection" Now it was evident, that there was a better resurrection or else God would not have revealed it unto Paul wherein then can it be said a better ressurrection? This distinction is made between the doctrine of the actual ressurrection and the doctrine of translation, the doctrine of translation obtains deliverance from the tortures and sufferings of the body but their existence will prolong as to their labors and toils of the ministry before they can enter into so great a rest and glory, but on the other hand those who were tortured not accepting deliverance received an immediate rest from their labors, See Rev [14:13] And I heard a voice from heaven saying blessed are the dead who die in the Lord for from henceforth they do rest from their labors and their works do follow them--They rest from their labors for a long time and yet their work is held in reserve for them, that they are permitted to do the same works after they receive a ressurection for their bodies, but we shall leave this subject and the subject of the terresteal bodies for another time in order to treat upon them more fully". Thus we can conclude that of all the worlds that Christ created and populated, he is their Savior. And indeed Enoch and the members of his city are ministering angels to those other worlds. Your original question was if Jehovah was the Savior of the entire Universe. The above two statements don't justify that conclusion. In my mind the real question is do you believe that Jehovah's Atonement was the only atonement that was ever performed. Joseph Smith commented during multiple general conference sermons that Elohim laid down his life and took it up just like Jesus did. To me this suggests that Elohim was also a savior. If Elohim was a savior also, then the answer would have to be no.

The King Follett Discourse, or as I prefer to call it, Joseph Smith's final general conference sermon. General Conference of the Church at Nauvoo, Ill. on Sunday Afternoon April 7, 1844 Times & Seasons Minutes what did Jesus say? (mark it elder Rigdon!) Jesus said, as the Father hat power in himself, even so hath the Son power; to do what? why what the Father did, that answer is obvious; in a manner to lay down his body and take it up again. Jesus what are you going to do? To lay down my life, as my Father did, and take it up again.---- If you do not believe it, you do not believe the Bible; the scriptures say it, and I defy all the learning and wisdom, all the combined powers of earth and hell together, to refute it. Here then is eternal life, to know the only wise and true God. You have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves; to be kings and priests to God the same as all Gods have done; by going from a small degree to another, from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you are able to sit in glory as doth those who sit enthroned in everlasting power; and I want you to know that God in the last days, while certain individuals are proclaiming his name, is not trifling with you or me; What did Jesus do? why I do the things I saw my Father do when worlds came rolling into existence. I saw my Father work out his kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom I shall present it to my Father, so that he obtains kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt his glory, so that Jesus treads in his tracks to inherit what God did before; it is plain beyond disputation, and you thus learn some of the first principles of the gospel, about which so much hath been said. When you climb a ladder, you must begin at the bottom and go on until you learn the last principle; it will be a great while before you have learned the last. It is not all to be comprehended in this world; it is a great thing to learn salvation beyond the grave. I suppose I am not allowed to go into an investigation of any thing that is not contained in the Bible, and I think there are so many wise men here, who would put me to death for treason; so I shall turn commentator to-day;

When it becomes a habit. I don't know if this is the same topic but its close. My second mission president shared the following during a zone meeting. When a locomotive train engine is stopped, a simple wedge will inhibit forward motion no matter how much power is applied. On the other hand if the engine is traveling at full speed it will smash through almost any wall that you can place in front of it.

I agree that a taxonomy discussion is going to be essentially fruitless. We can't scientifically study our Gods. I asked the question about the species of God because in my mind there seems to be a vast difference between them and us. Some have labeled this difference as an ontological gap. Quickly and without quoting scripture or Joseph Smith Sermons, I'll state my questions and concerns. As man is God once was, As God is man may be. - Lorenzo Snow Is this statement valid? Was God once like I am now? Because in no way would I correlate my (or any other mortals) life with Jesus Christs' mortal ministry. From what I read, it appears that the atonement that Christ performed is what essentially separates us from the Gods. Apparently Elohim also performed an atonement. And it appears that the Holy Ghost will have the opportunity to also serve in the office of Messiah. The atonement created the light of Christ. The atonement is what granted Jehovah and Elohim their honor and power. In my mind there are only a couple options: 1)God is different than us. He is GOD, and we will never be able to become as he is. We might be able to become gods. But essentially we are a different species. 2)We can become like God but we are way behind them in the eternal progression model. Thus if we are to become like God we will have to pass through a similar type of trial and existence that they have. Personally, I believe that Lorenzo Snow was absolutely correct and that we are of the same species as God. I just wanted to see if anyone else realized this discrepancy.

Genesis 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. This verse explains that the water that covered the Earth came from 2 sources. From the atmosphere, and from the interior of the Earth itself. John A Widtsoe in Evidences and Reconciliations addresses the Flood and has a couple of comments that I like. 1) In some places the layer of water might have been twenty-six feet deep or more; in others, as on sloping hillsides, it might have been only a fraction of an inch in depth. That the whole earth, however, was under water at the same time was easily possible under a terrific, long-continued downpour, such as is described in Genesis. 2) Latter-day Saints look upon the earth as a living organism, one which is gloriously filling "the measure of its creation." They look upon the flood as a baptism of the earth, symbolizing a cleansing of the impurities of the past, and the beginning of a new life. This has been repeatedly taught by the leaders of the Church. The deluge was an immersion of the earth in water (D. & C. 88:25; Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 1:274; Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 603; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, 1:331).

Say it isnt so. Lime Koolaide? How 'bout a frosty Mountain Dew instead?

Exactly. Jehovah is the only begotten in the flesh. He seems to be different than us in many ways. John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Jehovah was there before the rest of us. He was already God. He created the physical world that we know. John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. Jesus always maintained that there was a difference between himself and us. Abraham 3:19 And the Lord said unto me: These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they; I am the Lord thy God, I am more intelligent than they all. Teaching of the Prophet Joseph Smith, footnote 8, p. 353, Note by Elder B. H. Roberts commenting on Joseph Smith's King Follet Discourse It is the direct statement in the Book of Abraham - accepted by the Church as scripture - that there are differences in the intelligences that exist, that some are more intelligent than others; and that God is "more intelligent than them all".* I believe that this means more than that God is more intelligent than any other one of the intelligences.* It means that he is more intelligent than all of the other intelligences combined.* His intelligence is greater than that of the mass. So Jehovah is more intelligent than the rest of humanity combined. It was also pretty evident from his mortal ministry that he could fortell the future. I can't do that. Why would you? No other human came even close to his spirituality. He was able to provide an atonement and was also able to resurrect himself. He seems to be pretty different than us... Oh yeah, and I sin, lots. I'll agree with ya here. Just not enough information. But it is pretty evident that the creation of Jehovah was radically different than the creation of you or I.