mikbone

Receiving one's calling and election is a profound moment. The doctrine does not fall under the first principles and ordinances of the gospel. Just because dozens of people have written books about how they have met the savior does not mean that this is a correct activity. It is fine to write about the doctrine of Calling and Election but to share one's personal knowledge in a public format is undoubtedly unwise. The apostles are special witnesses of God. Do you see them boasting of their righteousness and spiritual accomplishments? I know that all the Presidents of the Church have had profound experiences that they have not shared with the church in a public format. I would bet that Joseph Smith withheld from the church 100x the knowledge that he received during his life as Prophet. I believe that we should look to the Lord's anointed for our examples. If the prophet and apostles keep their sacred experiences as sacred then shouldn't we do the same? When members read material and come to the conclusion that 1) laypeople are receiving greater revelations that the Lord's anointed or 2) that it is ok to reveal sacred material to the public. Then it is my opinion that either the material that they are reading is incorrect, or that they mis-understand the intent of the material.

The LDS doctrine is rich. There is the basic doctrine (Milk), and the more profound doctrine (Meat). The basic doctrine is easily found and communicated through the publications and from the pulpit. The profound or deep doctrine should not be published in a public format nor discussed in frivolous meetings, websites, etc... When we see individuals start to make public commentary on sacred subjects some of us start to feel uncomfortable. The teachings of calling and election are well established within the Church. Denver Snuffer's book deals with the concept in detail but does not contain any information that one could not learn from the standard works. I was not a very gifted, intelligent, or sober teenager but I knew much about the concepts of receiving ones calling and election. I remember praying as a teenager and receiving the following scriptures in response. D&C 67:10 When some give the impression that Denver Snuffer is a great man that has uncovered a great secret and is right in trying to put the church as a whole back onto the straight and narrow, I feel VERY uncomfortable. Joseph Smith revealed much to the church. Without Joseph there would be no LDS church. Joseph Spent the vast majority of his time teaching the milk and only on occasion does he comment on the meat. But in many of his revelations or sermons like the King Follett Discourse we do see shadows of the information that he understood. If Joseph Smith desired to share all the meat with us and the public, he could have but he did not for a wise purpose. Likewise people who receive their calling and election or insight into mysteries are charged to keep their knowledge to themselves. We are not to share these sacred insights or moments with the public. Just because the General Authorities have not written books like the second comforter doesn't mean that they haven't had sacred interviews or experiences.

You don't have to quote Denver Snuffer. Why not go to the source. Keeping Confidences The reason we do not have the secrets of the Lord revealed unto us is because we do not keep them but reveal them, we do not keep our own secrets but reveal our difficulties to the world even to our enemies. Then how would we keep the secrets of the Lord? Joseph says I can keep a secret till doomsday. Joseph Smith Jr., Sermon delivered at Smith Homestead on Sunday December 19, 1841 Source: Wilford Woodruff Journal

I think it has to do with either the high temperature pasteurization or ultra homogenization. This technique denatures the proteins. It gives the milk a longer shelf-life but makes it useless for cheese making. I think that it has something to do with the world domination schemes of the Triumvirate...

https://www.lds.org/topics/family-proclamation Required reading for my sons - http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0911094237 There is also a female version Marriage, the Fascinating Way, By Helen Andelin

I can neither confirm nor deny an appropriate response to that question. Thank You.

I have a few comments and recommendations. First, read and study Ether chapters 3 & 4. It is the best scriptural representation of what a calling and election actually is: Some of my insights into the first half of Ether chapter 3: http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/19807-what-type-body-did-jehovah-show-unto-brother-jared.html Second, The book the second comforter is a fine book. In which I didn't find any apostate material within. I have heard reports about Denver Snuffer writing questionable commentary in a blog or something but haven't bothered to research it myself. Actually one important message that I personally got from reading the book was the importance of home teaching. Home teaching probably is just as important if not more important for the teacher than for his families. We must fulfill our callings and current responisbilities before the Lord will give us further light and understanding. Thridly, The first rule of C&E Club is: You do not talk about C&E Club. The second rule of C&E Club is: You do not talk about C&E Club.

What University? You may want to see if there in a LDS institute a your school?

You would be quite the catch PC...

Yes, during the mortal ministry here on Earth. Between the birth via the Virgin Mary to the death on the Cross.

I don't really care if you agree with my perspective. Sorry if that sounds flippant. But I believe that we cannot have a reasonable conversation if we do not at least understand each others perspective.

I like John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

I only listed 4 options. The list is limitless. But there is only one truth. Why don't you stick out your neck and take a position, instead of just being contrary. If you just wanna say it is a mystery that is acceptable as well. Do you have proof that his mortal body was not like ours? To what degree was was his body not like ours. I happen to agree with PC (surprisingly). I think Christ's body was 100% mortal, with knowledge and wisdom that gave Him the ability to do miracles, resurrect, etc...

This point of discussion is not going to be able to come to any conclusions unless we try to make more concrete definitions. For example - Was the Messiah (Jesus Christ during his mortal ministry): 1) 50% Mortal & 50% Immortal (1/2 DNA from the Virgin Mary & half from God) 2) 100% Mortal & 100% Immortal (this is 200% which is impossible - but God is boundless...) 3) 100% Mortal physical body with a spirit and knowledge that was able to grant him immortality and the ability to self-resurrect. 4) Or was He actually a different species than us entirely?

Yes.

Chapter 7: Faithfulness in Times of Trial: “From the Shadows into the Glorious Sunshine” Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Lorenzo Snow These lines are a direct quote from lesson 7 from the Lorenzo Snow manual. It is implied... The sister in your class made a logical conclusion...

It may help to recognize that this lesson was based upon Lorenzo Snow's point of view. President Snow had a deep love for the Plan of Exaltation and the pathway that man travels to become as God is. Don't think of his statements as a comment on the imperfection of Christ, but more likely a comment on the Gods expectations of the Saints.

Chapter 7: Faithfulness in Times of Trial: “From the Shadows into the Glorious Sunshine” Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Lorenzo Snow Some of our brethren have queried whether hereafter, they could feel themselves worthy of full fellowship with Prophets and Saints of old, who endured trials and persecutions; and with Saints … who suffered in Kirtland, in Missouri and Illinois. The brethren referred to have expressed regrets that they had not been associated in those scenes of suffering. If any of these are present, I will say, for the consolation of such, you have to wait but a short time and you will have similar opportunities, to your heart’s content. You and I cannot be made perfect except through suffering: Jesus could not [see Hebrews 2:10]. In His prayer and agony in the Garden of Gethsemane, He foreshadowed the purifying process necessary in the lives of those whose ambition prompts them to secure the glory of a celestial kingdom. None should try to escape by resorting to any compromising measures. (Deseret News: Semi-Weekly, Feb. 9, 1886, p.1) Take it individually or take it collectively, we have suffered and we shall have to suffer again, and why? Because the Lord requires it at our hands for our sanctification. (Deseret News, Oct. 28, 1857, p.270)

One can argue that Jesus Christ was not perfect till after the atonement, resurrection, and presentation unto the Father. Hebrews 5: 8-9

I heard this one today. How much talent does effort take? ZERO. - Jon Gruden

And to hear someone condemn in poetic prose... I miss the young Elder Packer. Even in a seated position sucking O2 through a nasal canula he gives the most rebuking talks. I love him dearly. I could get behind some fire and brimstone.

Science and religion is a complex topic. But in reality it boils down to only 2 real options. There is no God and the universe only works on the laws of physics that just happened by total random chance to be what they are... I find this option unsatisfactory. There is a God and He created our physical universe with a specific plan in mind. Because God wants us to live by faith we will never be able to understand completely how He manipulates the matter and energy to create our universe. You can't really have a combination of the above 2 options. They abhor one another. Man I love to learn about the universe, I have a great big telescope that I have used to check out our celestial neighbors. But I recognize that although we have learned lots about physics we are still only children trying to figure things out. We have no idea what Dark Matter or Dark Energy is or if they even exist (which we currently conclude that they composes over 3/4 of the mass of the universe). We have no idea what happens beyond the event horizon of a black hole. We are still very confused about the origin of matter. Is string theory real or is it complete garbage? Do we live in 4 dimensions or 13? If we look at the assumptions that our scientists had only 100 years ago, it is easy to see that we were totally lost. It was much worse 1000 years ago... Let us assume that the Lord just forgot us and there was no second coming. And that we were able to continue learning at our current pace without either killing ourselves or having some kind of event occur that destroys the planet Earth. How long do you suppose it would take us to learn all the secrets of the universe? A century, millennia, or millions of years? Do you think that we could come to the technological presence wherein we could build a tower of babel that would allow us to come into Gods presence? I don't think so. Learning about physics is awesome. No doubt we will have scientific breakthrough that allow us to live more comfortably, and expand our horizons; but we will never be able to utilize science to break the faith barrier. The second coming will arrive sooner or later. At that time we will realize that what we though was science is just a shadow of the reality that is the priesthood.

yes thank you moses 1:35-39

From Moses 1:38 it appears that the purpose of creation is to train men to be like God.

Abraham 1:21-24