mikbone

I thought you were somewhat of a scholar. Are you going to back off and now agree that it was given during general conference?

The Atonement took place in the Garden and on the Cross. Many prophets have discussed this. But something important took place in the Garden. This is where Christ came to grips with the atonement. It is interesting that He asked his Father 3 times to 'take this cup from me' but after the Angel came to comfort him. He had the determination to take the bite in his mouth and plow on. I have read some of Blake Ostler's stuff. He is well educated. And no doubt a successful lawyer and author. But I don't ascribe to his atonement beliefs. I'll stick with Joseph Smith Jr.

Richard Ostling in his TIME Magazine, PBS NewsHour with Jim Lehrer interview, asked President Hinckley Question: God the Father was once a man as we were. This is something that Christian writers are always addressing. Is this the teaching of the church today, that God the Father was once a man like we are? Answer: I don’t know that we teach it. I don’t know that we emphasize it. I haven’t heard it discussed for a long time in public discourse. I don’t know. I don’t know all the circumstances under which that statement was made. I understand the philosophical background behind it. But I don’t know a lot about it and I don’t know that others know a lot about it. Drawing Nearer to the Lord President Gordon B. Hinckley Nov 1997 Ensign conference issue “The media have been kind and generous to us. This past year of pioneer celebrations has resulted in very extensive, favorable press coverage. There have been a few things we wish might have been different. I personally have been much quoted, and in a few instances misquoted and misunderstood. I think that’s to be expected. None of you need worry because you read something that was incompletely reported. You need not worry that I do not understand some matters of doctrine. I think I understand them thoroughly, and it is unfortunate that the reporting may not make this clear. I hope you will never look to the public press as the authority on the doctrines of the Church.”

You may want to check out https://byustudies.byu.edu/PDFLibrary/18.2CannonKingFollett-8e1d9165-52f1-4e4a-9950-d55c4d2f701b.pdf or https://www.lds.org/ensign/1971/04/the-king-follett-sermon?lang=eng

Nice article. It really gives you a warm fuzzy inside when you take the time to write something meaningful and then have the only response as - 'ark steadier'... I mean, how can you expect a Bishop to learn the names of all the members of the ward. The nerve.

Sorry you feel this way. I mean no offense. John 5:19 is a verse that Joseph Smith alludes to within his 1844 April 7 general conference address AKA - KFD. Wherein Joseph Smith states: To me this implies that Jehovah witnesses Elohim's atonement. And it made me think. Who really witnessed Jehovah's atonement? The Atonement in my mind took place in the garden of Gethsemane. Surely Elohim witnessed Jehovah's atonement. As well as the Angel who strengthened Him (Luke 22:43). Even Peter, James, and John were asleep at the wheel and missed the most important act of Human existence. So I asked myself if Jehovah served in a similar maner wherein he served as an Angel who strengthened Elohim during His atonement on Kolob... Then during sacrament meeting yesterday while singing 136 I know that my redeemer lives, I forcefully realized that I constantly witness the Atonement in my life. No doubt I will have a greater witness during final Judgement, but I did not need to be in the Garden of Gethsemane observing Jehovah in his suffering to wittness the atonement. Satan probably was present as well watching Christ's suffering, but he did not witness the Atonement.

Yes, there is much to be gained by doing what is right. Your honor and her chastity are priceless. Once you cross a line your honor and her chastity will never be the same. Realize what you have and defend it with all your might. The adversary wants you to fail. Do what you know is right and let her know that you are doing the right thing for the right reasons. She will respect and honor you for it. You have your whole married life to explore the joy of procreation. Before marriage, it is fornication, just dirty sex. It is a horrible substitute. Do not fall for one of satan's most popular tricks. The consequences of which can be devastating. You should also honor her mortal Father. Would you have asked either her mortal or Immortal Father what activity you could get away with? Sounds silly, no?

Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. Assuming that you understand the significance of the above scripture. Do you believe that you have personally witnessed the atonement?

This may be going a bit far. Even if a local bishop is uninspired or even corrupt, the President of the church and the Quorum of twelve are true messengers of God. Of this I have no doubt. Conference is next week, I look forward to the words of wisdom and insight that will be revealed. And of note, the authority of the priesthood is absolute. I believe that there are multiple apostates that are in my Melchizedek priesthood line of authority. I have no doubt that I still hold the Priesthood.

I'm sure that this happens alot. We have a huge church. Not every decision made in Zion has been well researched nor spiritual confirmation sought. If it was so, we would have been caught up into heaven by now like the city of Enoch... Remember how Joseph Smith was able to receive revelation about how it was ok to give Martin Harris the 116 pages of the Book of Lehi? Sometimes the Lord lets us struggle for our benefit. It does seem a shame that a 17 year old young man prospective Elder / Missionary has not not been interviewed by the Bishop. If I was bishop that would be my number one focus... And I count it a blessing that I have not been considered for a bishop calling. :) I have had many local leaders during my years in the church that turned out to be less than optimal. Excommunicated bishops, stake presidents, and an inactive - absent mission president. Did it matter? Not to me. My spiritual leader is neither my bishop nor my stake president. I pray to my spiritual leader and He has never let me down.

Are you suggesting that the spirit world is in Nebraska?

Alma 42: 13, 22, 25 Heck just read the whole chapter

I like the commentary about Moses, Enoch, and Elijah. Makes you wonder why we don't have a better record of those who were resurrected at the time of Christ's resurrection. I was hoping for some clarification of the John 3:3-5 passage. Been looking for that for awhile... Joseph Smith makes an allusion it in Sermons delivered at Ramus, Ill. on Sunday April 2, 1843 And here Sermon delivered at the General Conference of the Church in Nauvoo, Ill. on April 8, 1840

Les Miserables Rise of the Guardians

God dosent have to live outside of time. We only need to have one exalted personage solve the time travel problem and the Grandfather paradox. Here we are, so someone must have done it. Maybe it was Vort... P.S. I really like the Huggins Displacement Theory, but unfortunately it does not take into account the possibility of wormholes so it must of necessity be false.

We can stop the debate right here. The Egg came first! Proof:

Elohim = Architect Jehovah = Carpenter Elohim creates spiritually, Jehovah created our Earth, Solar system, etc... Physically The beauty of creating spiritually is that it is like a blueprint. And anyone with the means, skill, education, can pick up a blueprint and create the same or very similar abode. I would bet a wooden nickel that this Earth is the first of Jehovah's physical creations. But I also believe that Elohim also created physically... Wouldn't surprise me if Kolob had not been Elohim's first physical creation or some such....

What would happen if a resurrected celestial body partook of the fruit of the tree of knowledge?

Well He couldn't be the father of other earths. My assumption is that the Man whom created our Adam and Eve probably populated many other earths the same way that our Earth was populated. As I recall the temple narrative discusses Adam in terms of Moses 1:34 as well...

I like this question. Alma 11:45, D&C 93:33 Is is possible that a resurrected body could be divided into a spirit and a body and yet not see corruption. Can a spirit don and doff its body? Or could a resurrected personage simply drop his physical matter travel light years distance to another planet and then pick up new matter and create a new celestial body? Dr. Manhattan from the Watchmen could do it.

Moses 1:34

I read section 138 to state that the just spirits in paradise are able to now able to travel into spirit prison to bring the gospel to those in bondage. Not that resurrect beings are able to travel into spirit prison

Depends... On how many worlds Jehovah created. Dunno, but I would bet another dollar that He has many firstborns... One could argue that if we enter into the Highest lvl of the Celestial Kingdom that we will become one of Jehovah's firstborn. D&C 93: 20-22 Doubt it. Adam was the first of Many

Now remember - when Jesus Christ stated, "Therefore I would that ye should be perfect even as I." he was not talking to the general public. He was talking to the elect that had survived the destruction after his death and the 3 days of darkness. I doubt, that He was advocating that we only become resurrected. Everyone, even sons of perdition are going to be resurrected. More likely He was advocating that we follow his example.

I would bet a dollar that Abel has been resurrected :) I would venture that upon resurrection that you enter the celestial kingdom - if done before the final judgement. But it is possible that resurrected beings can travel into Paradise after Jesus Christ set up the missionary system as described in Section 138. Or not... If we are getting near to the 2nd coming (fingers crossed) then our pre-mortal existence must be becoming sparse. Even if there were people in our pre-mortal existence sphere who were not destined for this Earth, all of them accepted Jehovah as their savior, and with our second coming I would assume that all other destinations would also receive a visit from Christ. Kinda like 3 Ne 16: 1-3