mikbone

Don't tell anyone, but we may not use these names... (Though I was happy to see some of my favorites (the middle names of our children) on these lists. Thank you for your naming help during this "selfish and immature" time ;-). I'll just leave the entertainment value of combining the first with the last, "Waco" indeed! The wife of the thread creator

I like Atlas, thanks. We just read Ayn Rand's Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged. I love her main characters, especially their integrity, work ethics, and refusal to compromise. But Francisco, Hank, and Howard aren't workin for us. John Galt might work though...

Happily, we are Texan, so we don't need exclusively Utah names.

"You know what, Napoleon? You can leave." - Uncle Rico

Same here. Mahonri Moriancumer is my favorite prophet but I can't do that to a child. The other boys in the family want to name the new one Jared, so they can all refer to themselves as the brother of Jared. But that doesn't seem right either...

Colin Jacob Hannah Daniel Seth Nikolas Brooke Porter Rockwell The wife likes Caroline, thanks

Couple quotes: It is said that Porter once told a crowd listening to United States Vice President Schuyler Colfax in 1869, "I never killed anyone who didn't need killing." Rockwell was accused of attempting the assassination of Lilburn Boggs, the former governor of Missouri, who signed executive order on October 27, 1838 known as the "Extermination Order 44" evicting Mormons from Missouri. The order was governor's response to the 1838 Mormon War and to what Boggs termed "open and avowed defiance of the laws, and of having made war upon the people of this State... the Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the State if necessary for the public peace—their outrages are beyond all description." The order was not formally rescinded until 1976. A grand jury was unable to find sufficient evidence to indict him, convinced in part by his reputation as a deadly gunman and his statement that he "never shot at anybody, if I shoot they get shot!... He's still alive, ain't he?" JOSEPH SMITH There is a numerous host of faithful souls, whose names I could wish to record in the Book of the Law of the Lord; but time and chance would fail. I will mention, therefore, only a few of them as emblematical of those who are too numerous to be written. But there is one man I would mention, namely Orrin Porter Rockwell, who is now a fellow-wanderer with myself, an exile from his home, because of the murderous deeds, and infernal, fiendish dispositions of the indefatigable and unrelenting hand of the Missourians. He is an innocent and a noble boy. May God Almighty deliver him from the hands of his pursuers. He was an innocent and a noble child and my soul loves him. Let this be recorded for ever and ever. Let the blessings of salvation and honor be his portion. [History of the Church, Vol.5, ch.6, p.125] I want him to always remember to be an ardent defender of the faith and truth. And to be found innocent before the Lord's anointed. To be someone that you could trust with your life. I'd call that high praise.

The wife is due in May and we haven't found a name yet. This will be number nine. We are doing our best to repopulate the republican party and provide bodies for LDS spirits. Number eight was a beautiful baby boy that we named Porter Rockwell. When his name was announced in our local sacrament meeting we heard by report that there was an audible gasp from the congregation. We are looking for a name this new baby that will rival the last. We stopped getting ultrasounds for the baby's sex long ago because there are just too few surprises in life. So we need names for both female and male.

The Adamic, Then Hebrew.

You can drink all the tea you want! Jehovah and the Holy Ghost can visit the Terrestrial Kingdom. But I'm under the impression that they will be busy working elsewhere most of the time.

According to the LDS beliefs, if you keep the commandments you will absolutely receive the desires of your heart. We call that kingdom the terrestrial kingdom and it is a wonderful place.

Thats kinda the point. The other is that in much of that discussion there were actual quotes from general authorities which do have more weight then your or my comments. Such as: Points for Spirit Birth Joseph Fielding Smith – “If we are his offspring, then how did we become such, if we had no mother to give us spirit birth?” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, 5 vols. [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1957-1966], 3: 143.) Harold B. Lee – “That great hymn “O My Father” puts it correctly when Eliza R. Snow wrote, “In the heav’ns are parents single? No, the thought makes reason stare! Truth is reason; truth eternal tells me I’ve a mother there.” Born of a Heavenly Mother, sired by a Heavenly Father, we knew Him, we were in His house” (Harold B. Lee, The Teachings of Harold B. Lee, edited by Clyde J. Williams [salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1996], 22.) Joseph F. Smith – In a statement of the First Presidency: “man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of heavenly parents, and reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father,” And Points against Spirit Birth (all btw are from Joseph Smith) Willard Richards pocket companion 8 August 1839: “The Priesthood is an everlasting principle & Existed with God from Eternity & will to Eternity, without beginning of days or end of years. the Keys have to be brought from heaven whenever the Gospel is sent…. The Spirit of Man is not a created being; it existed from Eternity & will exist to eternity. Anything created cannot be Eternal. & earth, water &c-all these had their existence in an elementary State from Eternity.” 28 March 1841: “he says the spirit or the intelligence of men are self Existent principles before the foundation this Earth-& quotes the Lords question to Job where wast thou when I laid the foundation of the Earth” Evidence that Job was in Existing somewhere at that time 1 he says God is Good & all his acts is for the benefit of inferior intelligences-God saw that those intelligences had Not power to Defend themselves against those that had a tabernacle therefore the Lord Calls them together in Counsel & agrees to form them tabernacles so that he might Gender the Spirit & the tabernacle together so as to create sympathy for their fellowman.” 7 April 1844 Richards Diary: “The head one called the Gods together in grand council – to bring forth the world… In Greek, Hebrew. German. Latin. – In the beginning the head of the gods called a council of Gods-and concocted a scheme to create the world … Elements – nothing can destroy. no beginning no end. – The soul. God created in the beginning – he never the character of man. don’t believe it. – who told you God was self existent? correct enough. – in hebrew put into him his spirt – which was created before. Mind of man coequal with God himself … If man had a beginning he must have an end-might proclaim God never had powr to create the spirit of man. Inteligence exist upon a self existent principle no creation about it.”

No official position. The following is a great discussion on the topic though. New Cool Thang Is there such a thing as spirit birth or not?

Great question. Abraham 3:24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; D&C 93:21 And now, verily I say unto you, I was in the beginning with the Father, and am the Firstborn; These two scriptures are pretty straight forward. In the pre-mortal existence, Jehovah was like unto God (enough to differentiate himself from the rest of us), and he was the Firstborn. The title Firstborn could mean many things... But my final conclusion is that before any of the rest of our brethren were organized as spirit children, Jehovah was there with the Father and He (Jehovah the pre-mortal Christ) had already obtained a station of god. How did He get there??? Best answer -- We don't know. But this answer is not very satisfying. Objectively, I only recognize 2 realistic options. 1) Jehovah was created differently then the rest of us which imbued his spirit with special qualities. or 2) Jehovah had experiences, prior to our organization as spirit children of Elohim, that allowed him to progress much further than where we currently reside within the plan of salvation. You are referring to the Lorenzo Snow Couplet - "As man is God once was, as God is man may be." It is generally thought that the couplet is stating that God the Father (Elohim) was once a man. Most people don't try to make room for Jehovah in the couplet... This is a profound question. I think that most LDS members would say either they don't know or don't care or that it does not matter. Of those that would stick their neck out and try to make a statement most would probably answer no. My personal answer? Yes.

Nope, close though. Gotta look a bit higher.

In 1945, at age 17, He joined the United States Naval Reserve and anticipated participating in World War II in the Pacific theater. He was sent to San Diego, California but was not moved overseas before the end of the war. His tour of duty lasted six months beyond the end of the war, and after it was completed he returned to the University of Utah. He graduated cum laude in 1948 with a bachelor's degree in business management. He did not serve a full-time mission as a youth and married at age 21. Can you guess who this is?

I vote that Melchizedek was Jehovah See Hebrews 7: 1-7

I just read the Fountainhead and am currently reading Atlas Shrugged. I don't know what you are trying to say above, but if you think that the characters of Howard Roark or Hank Rearden are greedy, then you completely misunderstand Rand. You may wanna review the parable of the talents. Matthew 25: 14-30 I would go so far to say that the character of Howard Roark would fit nicely into Alma 48:17. Rand gets integrity and honor. She obviously has a lot of confusion about love and sex, but all in all her writing is inspiring.

I believe that the seed that was concieved within the virgin was a Blastocyst - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here is a good place to start: Nature of God/Infinite regress of Gods - FAIRMormon My favorite quote though is Joseph Smith's Sermon in the Grove June 16th 1844 (Bullock Report), see June 16, 1844 The same can be found in the Teachings of the Phrophet Joseph Smith p. 373 Learned by Translating the Book of Abraham I learned it by translating the papyrus now in my house---I learned a test. concerning Abraham & he reasoned concerng. the God of Heaven-- in order to do that sd. he--suppose we have two facts that supposes that anotr. fact may exist two men on the earth--one wiser than the other-- wod. show that another who is wiser than the wisest may exist-- intelligences exist one above anotr. that there is no end to it-- if Abra. reasoned thus-- No End to Gods if J. C. was the Son of God & John discd. that God the Far. of J. C. had a far. you may suppose that he had a Far. also---where was ther ever a Son witht. a Far.---where ever did tree or any thing spring into existence witht. a progenitor-- & every thing comes in this way--Paul says that which is Earthyly is in likeness of that which is Heavenly-- hence if J. had a Far. can we not believe that he had a Fa.r also--I despise the idea of being scared to death--I want you all to pay particr. attent. J. sd. as the Far. wrought precisely in the same way as his Far. had done bef-- as the Far. had done bef--he laid down his life & took it up same as his Far. had done before--he did as he was sent to lay down his life & take it up again & was then committed unto him the keys &c I know it is good reasoning-- My favorite hymn by the way is: If you could Hie to Kolob, Hymn 284 1. If you could hie to Kolob In the twinkling of an eye, And then continue onward With that same speed to fly, Do you think that you could ever, Through all eternity, Find out the generation Where Gods began to be? 2. Or see the grand beginning, Where space did not extend? Or view the last creation, Where Gods and matter end? Me thinks the Spirit whispers, "No man has found 'pure space,' Nor seen the outside curtains, Where nothing has a place." 3. The works of God continue, And worlds and lives abound; Improvement and progression Have one eternal round. There is no end to matter; There is no end to space; There is no end to spirit; There is no end to race. 4. There is no end to virtue; There is no end to might; There is no end to wisdom; There is no end to light. There is no end to union; There is no end to youth; There is no end to priesthood; There is no end to truth. 5. There is no end to glory; There is no end to love; There is no end to being; There is no death above. There is no end to glory; There is no end to love; There is no end to being; There is no death above.

I totally agree. The term intelligence that B. H. Roberts defines in his treatise The Immortality of Man describes the stuff that was used by God the Father to organize Spirits. When the term intelligence is used in the scripture like D&C 93:29 or Abraham 3:22 it obviously is describing the pre-mortal spirits. I can't find direct evidence of Joseph Smith ever describing intelligence in the format that B.H. Roberts has. Unfortunately, B.H. Roberts defination for the term intelligence has taken a foothold in the LDS venacular. I wish he would have used a different term but he didn't. Logically though if Elohim created spirit children and he did not create them from nothing then there must have been some pre-organized material. B. H. Roberts is the first to give this idea of pre-organized material a defination so I use his term. How do you like the zeroth estate?

The Articles of Faith - #2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression. Moses 6 53 And our father Adam spake unto the Lord, and said: Why is it that men must repent and be baptized in water? And the Lord said unto Adam: Behold I have forgiven thee thy transgression in the Garden of Eden. 54 Hence came the saying abroad among the people, that the Son of God hath atoned for original guilt, wherein the sins of the parents cannot be answered upon the heads of the children, for they are whole from the foundation of the world. 55 And the Lord spake unto Adam, saying: Inasmuch as thy children are conceived in sin, even so when they begin to grow up, sin conceiveth in their hearts, and they taste the bitter, that they may know to prize the good. 56 And it is given unto them to know good from evil; wherefore they are agents unto themselves, and I have given unto you another law and commandment. 57 Wherefore teach it unto your children, that all men, everywhere, must repent, or they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God

I absolutely love your explanation. I had never thought of it like that. I imagined that Joseph Smith's 'finer material' was a form of light. The physical material that mankind has manipulated over the millennia and during the lifetime of Joseph Smith was solid material with mass. I had assumed that this 'finer material' was not a more elementary particle, but a different type of organized material: photons instead of atoms. Another assumption that I had made was that these 'intelligences' had gone through a testing or probationary period in which they graded themselves some greater and some lesser. I surmised that during this transformation from intelligence--> spirit was the moment when gender and species were assigned. Plants, animals, Man, and even the Earth has a spirit. Naturally, the intelligences that were chosen to become spirit children of God were the most noble of the intelligences... It would seem that some people believe that the intelligence that became Jehovah was an order of magnitude different than the intelligences that were used to create every other soul that was in our pre-existence. That in effect, the difference between Jehovah and our species is as different as the gulf between mankind and the beasts. I believe that Elohim, Jehovah, and mankind are of the same species btw.

I believe in an infinite progression and regression of Gods. The same stuff that we have been exposed to has previously and will continue to occur. The names and places have just changed.

Leviticus 16: 8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the Lord, and the other lot for the scapegoat. 9 And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the Lord’s lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering. 10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.