mikbone

The Church is still true. Boyd K. Packer sets the tone for conference. Sister Elaine Dalton gave a wonderful talk. Very nicely on point. M Russell Ballard was succinct It appears that the line up was inspired.

Official Declaration 2 He has heard our prayers, and by revelation has confirmed that the long-promised day has come when every faithful, worthy man in the Church may receive the holy priesthood, with power to exercise its divine authority, and enjoy with his loved ones every blessing that flows therefrom, including the blessings of the temple. Accordingly, all worthy male members of the Church may be ordained to the priesthood without regard for race or color.

Article appearing in Times and Seasons 3 (1 April 1842):743 See 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

What would happen if women got the priesthood? Elders quorum lessons would probably be a bit better prepared. We would probably have to sing more than one verse of each song though... Or, Maybe we could go to a 2 hour meeting block! We could also get rid of YW/YM. Go ahead and revoke The Family: a proclamation to the world. Heck, Elders and Sisters could be mission companions. This is gonna be great for the church!!!!

D&C 109:77 O Lord God Almighty, hear us in these our petitions, and answer us from heaven, thy holy habitation, where thou sittest enthroned, with glory, honor, power, majesty, might, dominion, truth, justice, judgment, mercy, and an infinity of fulness, from everlasting to everlasting.

Think of what goes hand in hand with pornography. LMJH - I would trust your feelings. You could confront him about the issue directly and demand that you put some kind of network nanny on the computer and have him give up his smart phone. He will most likely refuse. You can argue that since He started his habit at such an early age that you are concerned about your children following in his footsteps. Check out: Internet filtering (Family Safety) - LDSTech) Or you could live with his dirty habit. Or you could seek local council. I think you should talk to your Bishop.

It could have been Elohim, but I doubt it. Ever since the fall the Father has manifested himself rarely. And the only thing He does is present the Son. 1) Baptism of Christ - This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Matthew 3:17 2) Mount of transfiguration - This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. Matthew 17:5 3) Visitation of the Nephites - Behold my Beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased, in whom I have glorified my name—hear ye him 3 Ne 11:7 4) First Vision - This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him! JSH 1:17 In all other visitations where it appears that the Father is speaking directly to a prophet, I kinda think that it is Jehovah speaking as if He is the Father. I can see no reason why anyone would need to have a direct discussion with the Father when Jehovah is available. I also feel that Jehovah wanted to give a blessing of comfort to Adam for his job well done despite the hardships that he had to overcome. I also think that Adam / Michael was the Angel that comforted Jesus Christ in the garden of gethsemane during the atonement. These two men, Jehovah and Adam have a special relationship in my opinion. I agree that this event in D&C 107 is after the order of the temple. Instructions delivered sometime in July 1839 by Joseph Smith Jr. Source: Willard Richards Pocket Companion (probably copied in part from notes of John Taylor) It makes sense to me that Jehovah gave the keys to Adam and his posterity and that these keys will again be gathered and returned to Jesus Christ.

hehe, courageous.

I think that it was probably Jehovah as well. But then you have the issue of Jehovah being an unembodied spirit. Can an unembodied spirit administer a blessing to a mortal? Or are the verses stating that Jehovah witnessed the blessing on Adam? In Ether 3:6 Jehovah does touch the stones. He also inscribed the law upon the stones for Moses in Exodus 31:18. Would the other patriarchs have been able to lay their hands upon Jehovah's hands? What an awesome event this must have been. D&C 129 seems to indicate that a spirit of a just man made perfect would not try to interact physically with a mortal. I interpret a just man made perfect as a disembodied spirit, one who has past through Earth life and has yet to be resurrected. And is there a difference between a preembodied, unembodied, and disembodied spirit?

What do you think happened here? In my imagination, the Lord gives Adam a priesthood blessing with the assistance of the other patriarchs. Is the Lord here Jehovah or Elohim? I wish I was an artist.

I think that it is important to differentiate a peacemaker from a peacemonger. Peacemonger - one making or seeking peace unrealistically or at the expense of honor. Peacemakers are not pacifist.

Your original post is devoid of two concepts. God, and a testimony. If you just think of the church as a social institution, you don't owe the church anything.

Ronald Reagan is one of my favorite peacemakers. Reagan 2020 - Ronald Reagan - Address on National Security My favorite peacemaker in the scriptures - without question Captain Moroni Alma 44:10 !!!

I got a sarcastic streak in me sorry. Yes, I'm sure that they planned their coming out meeting to coincide with the General Conference Priesthood session. It just reinforces their disdain for the Church.

I wonder if this time and date were chosen specifically. I was going to RSVP then realized that I will be busy at my stake center... Rats, maybe I'll be able to catch the next event.

/facepalm perhaps she is hanging out with the wrong crowd?

I don't know if we were able to view important events on Earth while we were unembodied spirits in the pre-mortal existence. It is possible that the disembodied spirits in paradise were granted a viewing of the atonement, but we don't know for sure if this happened either. We do know that the spirits in paradise were visited by Jesus Christ during the 3 days that his body lay in the tomb though. So they did have a significant witness. The spirits in prison unfortunately were not able to see either the atonement or Christ's visit to the spirit world but they were able to receive second-hand information from the spirits in paradise after Jesus bridged the void between spirit prison and paradise. See D&C 138. The mortals that lived on Earth during Christ's Atonement were not able to witness the Atonement directly either. But there were miracles that were witnessed and Christ did visit the Nephites and other sheep as we have been informed... The original intent of this post was 2 fold. 1) Define what it means to witness the atonement. 2) Recognize that because Jehovah witnessed Elohim's atonement that Jehovah was inherently different than everyone else in our pre-mortal existence. Because it appears that you and I did not understand what was involved in the Plan of Salvation. We understood much of the Plan and we fought for our right to come to Earth and learn how to be more like God the Father. But Jehovah knew details about the Plan of Salvation that the rest of us were oblivious to. I believe that when Jehovah stepped forward and said, "Here am I, send me" that He was recognizant that He was volunteering to live a perfect life and suffer the Atonement. Jehovah understood in theory and from an observational or empathic viewpoint what was to be required of him. We did not understand the specifics at all. And we still don't understand. We will be able to gain a more in depth understanding of the Atonement with the ordinance of receiving ones Calling and Election. But unfortunately, there is only one way to have a perfect understand of what happened in Both Gethsemane and on the Cross. And as far as I know only Elohim and Jehovah have that perfect knowledge. See D&C 19: 15-20 wherein Christ repeats "ye know not" over and over.

Absolutely. Why would we be given any more meaningful revelation when we are reluctant to learn and study the material that has already been given us? I would love to have the record from the lost ten tribes...

You are correct. https://byustudies.byu.edu/PDFLibrary/18.2CannonKingFollett-8e1d9165-52f1-4e4a-9950-d55c4d2f701b.pdf The above document that I previously linked, describes the known historical background of the event. I feel that calling the Sermon the King Follett Discourse really does it a disservice. Many people think of the talk as an address during the interment of an fairly unknown person - King Follett. King Follett actually died almost a month prior to the sermon, on March 10, 1844. Instead the sermon was giving during Joseph's final General Conference. Joseph was to be martyred 3 months later. The audience was anywhere from 5,000 - 20,000 saints by reports. He spoke without notes for a period of 2 hours and 15 minutes. And there are 6 separate accounts that we have of the sermon. Joseph Fielding Smith's amalgamation found in The Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith is the least accurate version. I originally fell in love with the sermon after reading The Words of Joseph Smith by Ehat & Cook. But now, with the advent of the internet we have the ability to go to the original source. Please see - April 7, 1844 Floating Titles Why any saint would not want to study and ponder the last conference address of Joseph Smith Jr. is beyond me. The following words are quoted directly from the Clayton Report version of the sermon From the above, I read that Joseph Smith wanted to reveal more unto the saints. But there were many saints and even church authorities who refused to listen to any doctrine that was not explicitly stated within the Bible. So he refrained from teaching more important doctrines. It is obvious from reading Joseph's history that he felt not only persecuted from without but also from within the church. When modern latter-day saints wish to disown the KFD it seems to me that Joseph Smith is speaking the above words to them directly...

Thank you for your response. You have addressed the question in the original post. It is refreshing to have a conversation dealing with the topic instead of derailing all the time. I agree with you and appreciate that you have taken the time to ponder the logical progression of the concepts that Joseph Smith Jr. presented. When I had read the April 7, 1844 sermon many years ago I was immediately struck with the imagery. If Jehovah witnessed Elohim's atonement then there are a few ways that He could have done so. 1) Jehovah's spirit pre-dates our spirits vastly. Perhaps Jehovah was a spirit while Elohim went through his mortal trial and Jehovah was able to witness this event in person. 2) Perhaps Jehovah did not witness the atonement of Elohim directly but some time after Jehovah was spiritually created He was able to somehow earn his Calling and Election while still as yet an unembodied spirit and during this event He was able to see a vision of Elohim's atonement, wherein He was able to understand the significance of the ordinance. 3) There are other possibilities... Some of which should not be written in a public forum. Either way, I don't believe that anyone else in our pre-mortal existence understood the gravity of the plan that Elohim presented and Jehovah volunteered to execute. Excepting for perhaps Lucifer, but I find his soul as an Enigma...

From my reading of Joseph Smiths April 7, 1844 general conference talk, Joseph seems to imply that Jehovah was able to witness an event that occurred long ago. Neither Joseph nor I implied that Elohim was once a sinful mortal man. The most common interpretation is that Elohim was once a savior just like Jesus Christ. Thus Elohim was once a mortal man, but not sinful...

I thought you were somewhat of a scholar. Are you going to back off and now agree that it was given during general conference?

The Atonement took place in the Garden and on the Cross. Many prophets have discussed this. But something important took place in the Garden. This is where Christ came to grips with the atonement. It is interesting that He asked his Father 3 times to 'take this cup from me' but after the Angel came to comfort him. He had the determination to take the bite in his mouth and plow on. I have read some of Blake Ostler's stuff. He is well educated. And no doubt a successful lawyer and author. But I don't ascribe to his atonement beliefs. I'll stick with Joseph Smith Jr.

Richard Ostling in his TIME Magazine, PBS NewsHour with Jim Lehrer interview, asked President Hinckley Question: God the Father was once a man as we were. This is something that Christian writers are always addressing. Is this the teaching of the church today, that God the Father was once a man like we are? Answer: I don’t know that we teach it. I don’t know that we emphasize it. I haven’t heard it discussed for a long time in public discourse. I don’t know. I don’t know all the circumstances under which that statement was made. I understand the philosophical background behind it. But I don’t know a lot about it and I don’t know that others know a lot about it. Drawing Nearer to the Lord President Gordon B. Hinckley Nov 1997 Ensign conference issue “The media have been kind and generous to us. This past year of pioneer celebrations has resulted in very extensive, favorable press coverage. There have been a few things we wish might have been different. I personally have been much quoted, and in a few instances misquoted and misunderstood. I think that’s to be expected. None of you need worry because you read something that was incompletely reported. You need not worry that I do not understand some matters of doctrine. I think I understand them thoroughly, and it is unfortunate that the reporting may not make this clear. I hope you will never look to the public press as the authority on the doctrines of the Church.”

You may want to check out https://byustudies.byu.edu/PDFLibrary/18.2CannonKingFollett-8e1d9165-52f1-4e4a-9950-d55c4d2f701b.pdf or https://www.lds.org/ensign/1971/04/the-king-follett-sermon?lang=eng