ozzy

So I recently did a study for one of my classes relating heavily to this subject. I apologize if I am restating anything that has already been said since I haven't had time to go through all 31 pages of insight. In my study I learned that currently the American government already spends the most money in terms of %GDP (source is OECD statistics), has a 66% overweight factor (cdc.gov), and has the leading cause of death as heart disease (I believe that these are pretty closely related). We also have a relatively low life expectancy (also OECD). Connecting these, I can't see how on earth putting more money into the system with the new health care plan is going to help American's with how healthy we are or how it will make health care more affordable. This is how I see events transpiring if the health care plan came into affect. 1. Americans would stop worrying about a healthy life style altogether in light of the fact that they can just get free treatment later. 2. Many of our health issues go up, life expectancy goes down, and the government has to pump even more money into the system. 3. Because more is required, taxes go up and we end up paying even more for our health care. 4. Eventually the government runs out of money (hard to believe concerning they bailed out a bunch of companies with money they didn't have anyway), and reduces budgets to hospitals. 5. Hospital wait lists get longer, turn away rates increase, and health care becomes impossible to receive unless you go private anyway. 6. We land our selves in one big, nasty pickle.

As a side note, I do understand where you are coming from concerning the inaccuracy of historians. At the same time though, many of the bible stories have similar events in multiple cultures (creation and flood for example) including Greek and African mythology. They vary in a few minor details, but they still hold that the events happened. I think that God performs many marvelous works and wonders and while we may have a couple of small details slightly off (an example concerning the red sea is that Hebrew culture adds in that Moses walked into the Red Sea to his neck before it parted. The Bible doesn't say this) the events still happened.

Okay thanks, I think I now understand where you are coming from better. I don't really know how to add another of your quotes to one of my threads, but you mention later that the spirit is free to testify so long as it agrees with what you want it to. I disagree with this. The spirit is free to testify that what we think is incorrect as well as correct. Besides this, if we make take one of our issues to the Lord in prayer, we must do so with an open mind fully able and ready to admit that we may be wrong. This is what it means to soften our hearts in this context. True prayer (where doctrine, knowledge, and understanding are concerned) is not a discovery of how the spirit agrees with us, but it is a desire to be taught. It is not designed simply so that we know what God thinks, it is designed so that we may align our will with his, and our opinions and feelings with his facts and convictions.

I guess the things that I always go with are these. First of all, the Brethren have never, in a doctrine revealing setting, given a reason for not drinking coffee or tea. Any reason given is pure speculation or is related to scientific discoveries that effectively say what the word of wisdom does about keeping things in moderation as opposed to excess. Second, the word of wisdom mentions using barley to make mild beverages. Now we know 2 things relating to this. First, when the WoW refers to strong beverages, it is refering to alcoholic ones. Second is that barley is used to make beer which is a strong beverage. So how do we keep it mild? I can't imagine we would just chuck a bunch of barley into a cup of water and drink it. So I figure you have to boil it, ie. make a barley 'tea'. I figure as well that if we can make 'tea' with barley and the word of wisdom says to use herbs, then we are allowed to make herbal 'tea'. Just keep the tea leaves out of the picture and you will do fine.

I think there are 2 key reasons why it is so difficult to believe. The first is that it is so simple. Ultimately the principle is that we must do our best to live righteously, and rely on the Lord to make up the rest through his sacrifice. Thing is, we find relying on others hard because there are so few in the world today that we could rely on. The second reason that it is so difficult to believe is because we don't want to. In many of our lives (mine included), there are things that we feel or know that we should change about ourselves because it goes against the teachings of God. While knowing this, we would rather that the teachings were wrong, so we didn't have to feel guilt. In other words, the gospel asks us to change ourselves and become better by setting aside things that sometimes we may not want to set aside. Now if we are talking about historical events in the bible as opposed to the gospel itself, it is difficult to believe because if we do, then we must believe the rest of the Bible. If we do that then the second reason I mentioned comes into play again. The only other reason I can think is that we are taught to rely more on mans knowledge of science to explain things than on things like the spirit or on God. This truth comes more into play as we understand more of science. We need to remember though that God is capable of all things and understands science perfectly. That is why miracles are possible. That is why the Bible can be true and believable. Ways to help us believe that the atonement and the accounts of the scriptures are possible have been provided for us. They are to study the scriptures, pray for knowledge, and live righteously so that the spirit may bear witness to us that these things are true. I know that these things work for 2 reasons. First, there are words from the scriptures and the modern day prophets that tell us so. I think a good scripture about scripture study is Deuteronomy 17:19-20. 19 And it shall be with him, and he shall aread therein all the days of his life: that he may learn to fear the LORD his God, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them: 20 That his heart be not lifted up above his brethren, and that he turn not aside from the commandment, to the right hand, or to the left: to the end that he may prolong his days in his kingdom, he, and his children, in the midst of Israel. This effectively promises the king and us that if we study the scriptures, we will keep the commandments. How is this possible if we don't believe? It isn't. But if we read them and apply them, then we will see their truth and partake of the blessings contained therein. James 1:5-6 is excellent for why prayer is beneficial to our believing. 5If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. If we ask the Lord with true faith, then he will help us believe. But we must remember that if we don't ask in faith, we won't recognize that he has answered us. And then we will feel that he hasn't and step away from Him. These things accompanied by living righteously will help us come closer to God, and will help us believe. This brings us to the second reason that I know this is how we can come to believe with all of our hearts that the accounts are true, that the gospel is true, and that these things are the way to salvation. I know them because I have tested them myself. I relied on the feelings of the Spirit rather than the eyes of science to determine truth for me for God is the author of truth and there is no better person or thing to turn to for it. He testified to me that these things are true. As such I believe and hope that all may believe. I hope this is helpful, Ozzy

I'm gonna be honest. I thought it was pretty funny. But at the same time, I did cruise a bit and I am somewhat concerned that it misrepresents married mormon mothers as being... softly pornographic. I could use other words but I am not sure if they would get me suspended or banned. :)

I think it could simply be perspective interpretation of the authors, or possibly a difference of understanding between 2 translators from one language to another. Kinda like if I had translated something from Spanish and if a guy from England translated something from Spanish. The same origin language is used, fundamentally the same new language is used, even the end meaning might be the same. But since I am using American english and the other guy would be using British english, there will still be grammatical differences.

duckling

I think that all of the events mentioned by prisonchaplain are connected in some way. I think they are connected on the eternal level. In other words, while we as humans contemplate the meaning and motive of these things simply in terms of mans life, God contemplates them in terms of the earths life and even longer. A reason for some of the happenings of the old testament could be found in the Book of Mormon. If we look at 1 Nephi 4:13, it states this, " Behold the Lord slayeth the wicked to bring forth his righteous purposes. It is better that one man should perish than that a nation should dwindle and perish in unbelief." Indeed in the Bible we see the result of Israels disobedience by not slaying all of the nations. They dwindled in unbelief and left God for idols, thus bringing God's judgment upon themselves today. Even today there is a war that rages on as a result of the Israelites not destroying the Palestinians. Beyond this reasoning, I couldn't say why God does other things that are similar. Christ certainly doesn't qualify as wicked in any sense of the word. I am not entirely certain why the atonement had to happen the way it did, but I know this. The atonement, like all of God's other commandments, happened for a reason that God knows. That reason, and all other similar reasons satisfy me in believing that yes, God is just.

she's

There are no extinct species. Only those that Chuck Norris allows to live.

I can imitate most gremlin laughs. :)

I think there is a significant level of goodness in the words 'moderation on all things'. I love cheese and chocolate. These are great in moderation but excessively? Well... lets just say there is a reason I don't have a profile picture. :) Anyway, I think caffeine is the same way. I don't do much with it simply because I prefer A&W root beer but it is hardly something to sweat over

I agree with prisonchaplain. It sounds as though the person who rephrased John 3:16 was using it in a teaching and combined it somewhat with James 2:17-20, which speak of faith requiring works.

Based on the examples in the scriptures (Laman and Lemuel, Alma the Younger, Nephi, etc.), the spirit and the angels have multiple roles. Rebuke, comfort, guidance, and reassurance are among these. I think that when we talk about the spirit withdrawing, two things can happen. Either it simply withdraws and we feel the effects of that, or it rebukes us until we get it right. I think the withdrawing bit is more directed at the part of the Spirit that makes us feel all warm and fuzzy.

I get the impression after reading in Abraham 3:22-23 that there were many who progressed in the premortal existence quite significantly. There are three things that separate Christ and the rest of the spirits as far as I can tell. 1. He was born first. This isn't directly stated in these verses but is in many other places. 2. He progressed the most in that life. Verse 24 describes him as being like God. This is probably due largely to the fact that he had more time between his spiritual birth and the creation to learn and progress. 3. This is a big one I think. he volunteered to become our savior and decides to follow the fathers plan. This makes him greater than any of us. That is my take on it anyway.