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Everything posted by spamlds
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Here are the talks related to the topic: 1998 - To the Boys and to the Men - general-conference 2001 - The Times in Which We Live - general-conference
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Back around the year 2000 or so, someone put a temple recommend up on eBay and it very quickly escalated in price. The Church contacted eBay and the auction was terminated. Temple recommends are the property of the Church--not the member. As such a person cannot legally sell one because it is not his or her property. For temple garments, that is a different story.
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The question(s) posed here are a rhetorical trap. The author is making a comparison to a sectarian creed and is looking for an excuse not to believe in the Restoration. We see this approach used a lot at the Society for the Prevention of Anti-Mormonism. Specifically this is tactic #3 on the list: 1. Use of non-authoritative sources and out-of-context quotations 2. Attack the story of the Book of Mormon's origin, not its contents 3. Distort Mormon doctrines by comparing them to the unscriptural teachings of Christian creeds 4. When all else fails, lie! 5. Use slander, personal attacks, and character assassination 6. Accuse your opponent of doing the very thing you are doing What the person usually does with a series of questions like the original post contained is to make a list of qualifying characteristics that are derived from some sectarian creed or doctrinal statement of faith. Then the individual waits for any item that disagrees with the list/creed. If there is disagreement, the individual wrongly concludes that Mormonism isn't true. The correct approach is to research the scriptures prayerfully and see what they have to say on the questions. When that is done diligently, without prejudice, one comes to the understanding the list of questions is based on an erroneous concept of God to begin with, ergo the truth will not be a match. If more Christians would simply read the Bible and believe what it says, they'd come a lot closer to the truth than they do from using lists, creeds, or some web site that attacks Mormons. The answer lies in obtaining a testimony of the First Vision. If a person will read the Book of Mormon prayerfully and ask God if it is true, he will receive the testimony of the Holy Ghost. From that moment on, he can place trust in the revelations God gave to Joseph Smith. He will have confidence that God appeared to Joseph Smith and that Joseph knew first-hand what God was and is. The other option, of toying around with man's interpretations of the Bible takes years and can lead a person into many conflicting doctrinal paths. Why not do it the Lord's way and get the answer for oneself by personal revelation?
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I speak French, German, and a smattering of Russian. The most "slippery" parts of any language to learn are the prepositions. They are almost always idiomatic. Trying to literally translate them is kind of pointless. If you ask a German what's "ON" TV, he will reply, "a vase of flowers," "a lamp," or "dust." He conceptualizes "ON" as meaning physically on top of something. Americans say "ON" TV in relation to the program content that is being broadcast at the moment. Unless someone is trained in the idiomatic way prepositions are used in a language, it's not helpful in directly translating them to English. Here are a couple of articles I wrote about the topic of language and translating the scriptures. Hope these will give you cause for reflection. The Society for the Prevention of Anti-Mormonism: Preposition, idioms, and the problems of Bible translations The Society for the Prevention of Anti-Mormonism: 'Biting the wax tadpole' and other translation errors
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To identify the "great and abominable church" we need no further commentary than the scriptures themselves. The scriptures describe that "church" by its characteristics and its actions. I recommend a quick search the topic at lds.org. Here is what that "church" does, has done, and will do: It slays the saints of God, tortures them, and binds them down with an iron yoke, bringing them into captivity. It indulges in worldliness as expressed by luxurious apparel, gold, silver, silks, and fine-twined linens. Harlotry is associated with it. This "church" destroys he saints of God for the praise of the world. It took away plain and precious parts of the word of God. It has dominion over the world. It has power to exercise compulsion against free will. It fights against Zion and the Lord's work in the world. It is the visible, physical manifestation of the devil's kingdom on earth, in opposition to the kingdom of God. It is the whore, the mother of harlots, and it will ultimately be destroyed when the Lord comes. There is more than one church, government, political philosophy, or human organization that is responsible for these things. Together, combined, they are the great and abominable church. Remember--it's by their fruits that we will know them. 1 Nephi 13:6-9 4 And it came to pass that I saw among the nations of the Gentiles the formation of a great church. 5 And the angel said unto me: Behold the formation of a church which is most abominable above all other churches, which slayeth the saints of God, yea, and tortureth them and bindeth them down, and yoketh them with a yoke of iron, and bringeth them down into captivity. 6 And it came to pass that I beheld this great and abominable church; and I saw the devil that he was the founder of it. 7 And I also saw gold, and silver, and silks, and scarlets, and fine-twined linen, and all manner of precious clothing; and I saw many harlots. 8 And the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold the gold, and the silver, and the silks, and the scarlets, and the fine-twined linen, and the precious clothing, and the harlots, are the desires of this great and abominable church. 9 And also for the praise of the world do they destroy the saints of God, and bring them down into captivity. 1 Nephi 13:26 25 Wherefore, these things go forth from the Jews in purity unto the Gentiles, according to the truth which is in God. 26 And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away. 27 And all this have they done that they might pervert the right ways of the Lord, that they might blind the eyes and harden the hearts of the children of men. 1 Nephi 14:9-11 9 And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the devil. 10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth. 11 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people. 1 Nephi 22L:13-14 13 And the blood of that great and abominable church, which is the whore of all the earth, shall turn upon their own heads; for they shall war among themselves, and the sword of their own hands shall fall upon their own heads, and they shall be drunken with their own blood. 14 And every nation which shall war against thee, O house of Israel, shall be turned one against another, and they shall fall into the pit which they digged to ensnare the people of the Lord. And all that fight against Zion shall be destroyed, and that great whore, who hath perverted the right ways of the Lord, yea, that great and abominable church, shall tumble to the dust and great shall be the fall of it. 2 Nephi 6:12 12 And blessed are the Gentiles, they of whom the prophet has written; for behold, if it so be that they shall repent and fight not against Zion, and do not unite themselves to that great and abominable church, they shall be saved; for the Lord God will fulfil his covenants which he has made unto his children; and for this cause the prophet has written these things. 2 Nephi 28:18 18 But behold, that great and abominable church, the whore of all the earth, must tumble to the earth, and great must be the fall thereof. 19 For the kingdom of the devil must shake, and they which belong to it must needs be stirred up unto repentance, or the devil will grasp them with his everlasting chains, and they be stirred up to anger, and perish; 20 For behold, at that day shall he rage in the hearts of the children of men, and stir them up to anger against that which is good. D&C 29:21 21 And the great and abominable church, which is the whore of all the earth, shall be cast down by devouring fire, according as it is spoken by the mouth of Ezekiel the prophet, who spoke of these things, which have not come to pass but surely must, as I live, for abominations shall not reign.
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Could someone help with some questions about the Holy Ghost?
spamlds replied to cooling's topic in LDS Gospel Discussion
To have a testimony of the gospel, you seek out and ask the Lord for his personal confirmation through revelation of these essential truths: 1. God lives 2. Jesus Christ is is Son, our Redeemer 3. The atonement of Christ saves us from death and sin 4. Joseph Smith was a prophet of God 5. The Book of Mormon is true. Each of these parallel the points in the first four articles of faith. When we obtain a spiritual witness from God for ourselves by revelation, we will know who we worship, why we worship, how to worship, and where to worship. When you hear someone who has a testimony bear his or her testimony, it is like holding a lit match to an unlit match. It can ignite the unlit match and cause it to burn. The testimony of the Holy Ghost comes from hearing the gospel taught with power and authority, not through reason or evidence. Although we use our intellect to ponder gospel truths, intellect is not the source of the testmony. Although we may feel deep emotions from gaining a testimony, the emotions are not the testimony. A testimony is knowing truth by revelation. -
The way to get the feeling back is through sincere repentance. I don't mean to say this in a condemning way, so please try to understand that I mean this with compassion. When you felt the gift of the Holy Ghost testify of truth, that is the more sure word of prophecy that the scriptures talk about. Seeing an angel is not as important as that feeling. That testimony will sustain you throughout every trial as long as you are not wiling to let go of it. Letting go of it costs you. The way back is through sincere repentance, godly sorrow, restitution, making it right to the Lord and those you may have influenced, and then confessing your error to the Lord asking his forgiveness. The awareness of forgiveness comes to us gradually most of the time as our guilt is taken away. Secondly, you say that you went to the temple before falling away. In going to the temple, you made sacred covenants there. Violating those covenants places you under the adversary's power until you repent fully and recommit yourself to keep the covenants you made. Violation of those covenants is a serious sin. To get the "good feeling" back--is to get the gift of the Holy Ghost again. That only comes after obtaining a remission of your sins. The only way to obtain that is through deep, personal repentance. If you're on that road already, welcome home!
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The gravity of sexual sin relates to the principle of restitution in the repentance process. When we repent, as we are taught, there are several steps: recognition of the sin, remorse, making restitution, and then receiving the Lord's forgiveness. It is flippant to say, "Oh well, I can always repent later!" The reason this attitude is irresponsible is that true repentance includes making restitution for the wrong committed. If we lie, that means we have to come clean and tell the truth. If we stole something, we need to pay for the item or return it. If we have gossiped about someone, we need to take steps to restore their reputation and apologize. When it comes to sexual sin, how does one make restitution? How can one return virtue once it has been lost? That's why it is such a grave sin. Without the ability to make restitution, the personal contrition that is involved must necessarily be enormous. If an unwanted pregnancy results, there is no way to "repent away" the consequence. The impact upon the innocent life is immeasurable. Thus, one must consider, if restitution is necessary for repentance to be complete, how difficult is it to truly and sincerely repent of sexual sin? The atonement has the power to save us, but it only comes into effect when we are willing to undergo the often painful cleansing process of obtaining a remission of sins.
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Is the Devil real? Should we care?
spamlds replied to prisonchaplain's topic in LDS Gospel Discussion
Moses chapter 1 contains a relevant passage of scripture. After having beheld the Lord, sometime thereafter Satan appeared to Moses as an "angel of light." He attempted to deceive Moses into worshipping him and he even claimed to be "the Only Begotten." Moses was able to discern the difference between the Lord and Satan. 12 And it came to pass that when Moses had said these words, behold, Satan came tempting him, saying: Moses, son of man, worship me. 13 And it came to pass that Moses looked upon Satan and said: Who art thou? For behold, I am a son of God, in the similitude of his Only Begotten; and where is thy glory, that I should worship thee? 14 For behold, I could not look upon God, except his glory should come upon me, and I were transfigured before him. But I can look upon thee in the natural man. Is it not so, surely? 15 Blessed be the name of my God, for his Spirit hath not altogether withdrawn from me, or else where is thy glory, for it is darkness unto me? And I can judge between thee and God; for God said unto me: Worship God, for him only shalt thou serve. Moses had felt the Lord's Spirit upon him, which transfigured him to be able to withstand a personal appearance of the Lord. When Satan appeared, no such quickening was necessary. Moses was able to tell the difference because of it--he could behold him "in the natural man." Satan does not quicken the body or the spirit of mortals. He cannot mimic the gift of the Holy Ghost. Those who have received the Holy Ghost can discern between the two influences. They are as light and darkness. There is no doubt or possibility of confusing them. -
It doesn't matter whether it's major or minor stuff. In the instance you cited where the distraught man wrote to Elder Oaks about his participation in the Korean War and having to take life in that circumstance. If the man sought his answers from the Lord and in the scriptures, surely he would have read this passage in Alma chapter 43 one day: "47 And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed. Therefore for this cause were the Nephites contending with the Lamanites, to defend themselves, and their families, and their lands, their country, and their rights, and their religion." In Alma 51, we read that Captain Moroni compelled political dissidents who objected to a war to take up arms in defense of their country at the point of the sword. The Lord knows we live in a violent world filled with bad people who would take away our liberty. He knows we must fight to stay free sometimes or to protect the liberty of others. I don't diminish the suffering this man went through that Elder Oaks spoke of. Perhaps, if he had read those passages prayerfully, a feeling of peace and forgiveness might have come to him instead of letting unnecessary guilt haunt him for decades. He would have known for himself and the Spirit could have confirmed it to him. This is what I meant in my previous post. Latter-day saints often do not know what is in their own scriptures. They fail to find peace, comfort, consolation, and surety because they are driven with every wind of doctrine. It doesn't matter big or small--follow the prophet. If he says don't go see R-rated movies, it is no longer the movie that is in question, but whether or you really believe he is a prophet of God. If he says don't get tatoos or multiple body piercings, etc., then if you really believe, you'll do it the Lord's way. The same goes for tithing, word of wisdom, church attendance, home teaching, food storage, etc. If you don't think he is a prophet, then it doesn't matter whose counsel you follow. The end result is not going to be beneficial.
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We might answer this question with a question. "Who is the God of Jesus Christ?" or "Who does Jesus Christ worship?" Jesus told his disciples: "29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him." (John 8:29) After his resurrection, Jesus told Mary: 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17) Jesus worshipped his Heavenly Father--who is also our Heavenly Father. We worship the God of Jesus Christ. Nothing Jesus ever did was for his own glory, but he gave all glory to his Father. When he appeared to the Nephites in the Book of Mormon we read: " 11 And behold, I am the light and the life of the world; and I have drunk out of that bitter cup which the Father hath given me, and have glorified the Father in taking upon me the sins of the world, in the which I have suffered the will of the Father in all things from the beginning. 32 And this is my doctrine, and it is the doctrine which the Father hath given unto me; and I bear record of the Father, and the Father beareth record of me, and the Holy Ghost beareth record of the Father and me; and I bear record that the Father commandeth all men, everywhere, to repent and believe in me. 33 And whoso believeth in me, and is baptized, the same shall be saved; and they are they who shall inherit the kingdom of God. 34 And whoso believeth not in me, and is not baptized, shall be damned. 35 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and I bear record of it from the Father; and whoso believeth in me believeth in the Father also; and unto him will the Father bear record of me, for he will visit him with fire and with the Holy Ghost." As we read the rest of 3rd Nephi, the submission to the Son to the Father is evident. Even the glorified, perfected, resurrected Lord was still doing the will of his Father and directed glory to him. Third Nephi displays perfectly, without flaw or sectarian interpretation, the relationship between Jesus and his Father as well as our relationship to both. We worship God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost, however our Father in Heaven is Supreme in the Godhead and the others do his will and give glory to him.
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This is one of those questions that anti-Mormons put out there to undermine faith. They want to separate you from Christ by separating you from his anointed servants. Imagine someone asking a first century Christian that question. "If the Spirit told you to do something that disagreed with what Peter or Paul counselled you to do, which would you pick?" Can you imagine any way that those men who gave their lives for the testimony of Christ would do anything contrary to his will? Were any of those men perfect? No. Were there ever disagreements among their ranks? Yes. The Bible and the Doctrine and Covenants tells us so. Nevertheless, despite their mortal flaws, would any of these men have led you astray from the Master for whom they would lay down their lives? Never. Likewise, Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and every prophet in our time down to Thomas S. Monson are cut from the same cloth as Peter and Paul. Any one of them would lay down his life for the testimony of Jesus. It is unimaginable that they would lead any of us astray. Furthermore, the Lord himself has said he will never permit such a thing to occur. You may count on that. If we receive an answer contrary to the teachings of the prophets, it is ourselves that is out of harmony. We should ask what is amiss in our lives. If we are not getting the same answer as God's anointed messenger, it is our problem and we need to find out what is wrong and get it fixed. I have encountered cases like this. For example one guy was a staunch political conservative and he had built a gospel "cult" around Ezra Taft Benson. If a current president of the Church didn't emphasize the political views of ETB, this guy was prone to say that the Prophet had fallen from grace. When challenged, the guy wasn't praying regularly, he didn't pay tithing, he had a little "porn" problem, etc. In other words, he wasn't qualified to get an answer and he was making up his own from his strongly held opinions. Even when overt unworthiness isn't a problem, a person can manufacture his own impressions out of a sense of anxiety. There are two guidelines that are foolproof. The correct answer lies in this statement: "And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets" (1 Corinthians 14:32). The messages of the Lord's prophets echo the same spirit as those who went before. It may not be precisely the same instruction, but they will share the same spirit and tone. If I might be a bit bold--and I mean no personal offense toward any individual here--in many LDS forums, I find that there are many good latter-day saints who don't look for their answers in the scriptures. Very often the answers are right there, easy to find with a topical guide or by searching on LDS.org. But they are lazy and want someone else to dig out the answers for them. When I have had the privilege of sitting with General Authorities in question and answer sessions, they always find their answers in the scriptures. When I find a member who is confused and thinks that the prophet is wrong about something, I find they don't know the scriptures. We are repeatedly exhorted to search the scriptures. If we are familiar with what is in the scriptures and we live so as to have the Spirit of God with us, we will find that the prophet's counsel never wavers from that which the Spirit gives us. This anti-Mormon question has a tendency to work like a cancer. It instills doubt in your heart and will grow if you don't kill the infection. The question itself is harmful to faith--intentionally so. Don't set up a false dichotomy. The Lord's servant will never deviate from the Lord's will. The Lord knows the hearts of all men. If a prophet sought to lead us a stray and follow his own path, the Lord would remove him from his calling, most likely by death. Trust the Lord and trust his prophets. There is no more sure message from the scriptures.
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There isn't just one type of anti-Mormonism, thus it's overly simplistic to look for one single answer two it. The Society for the Prevention of Anti-Mormonism has been studying the phenomenon since 2008. It's actually a fairly complex situation. There are anti-Mormons who were once latter-day saints. They apostatized from the Church, lost the gift of the Holy Ghost, and the aftermath is as described in Matthew chapter 12: 43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. Hebrews chapter 6 also describes the fallen condition of those who fall away and rebel against the truth. 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. The book of Mormon tells us of numerous instances when apostate members of the Nephite Church became "dissenters" (apostates). When they left the Church, they went over to the Lamanites (non-believers) to stir them up to wrath. Another type of anti-Mormons are sectarian religions and non-Christian faiths that regard the Church with suspicion and envy. We see this in the New Testament abundantly with the scribes and Pharisees among the Jews, and the various pagan sects among the Gentiles. In some cases, this is because the income of hireling priests is threatened. Other times it's the result of overzealous priests to suppress new revelation that defies a system that has rejected revelation. The last kind of anti-Mormonism comes from godless, worldly, secular, or wicked men who are irritated by the call to repentance. These are the kinds that tarred and feathered Joseph and besieged Far West in Missouri. They listen to the spirit of the devil daily and they do his bidding. The three kinds; are very interactive however. That's what makes it complicated sometimes.
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Snow, you misunderstood. I didn't infer that Paul was one of the Seventy. I was just making the distinction between having an "apostolic witness" and being an ordained Apostle. I believe that seeing the Lord in vision, as did Joseph Smith, or as Paul did, qualifies as being a witness of the resurrection. My point was that we are blessed to have many apostolic witnesses in modern times and that they include ordained apostles--who hold the keys Christ gave to the ancient twelve apostles--as well as the Seventy, and lay members who are witnesses of the Lord's resurrection. Don't try to interpret scripture too narrowly and miss the importance of modern oracles and witnesses of Christ's resurrection. Rejoice that there are those who are "eyewitnesses of his majesty" today.
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What happens to members that LEAVE the church
spamlds replied to KitCarson's topic in LDS Gospel Discussion
There are different reasons people "leave the Church" and the outcome is largely based on those reasons. Some people get offended by a person and they redirect their resentment towards the institution. Some of them fall into the traps mentioned in Matthew 13--persecution, worldliness, etc. Some people drift away because they're spiritually lazy. Some people just can't make the transition from belief to faith. Some people have a secret sin that they are unwilling to confess and forsake and they just wear themselves out going through the motions. In many cases, rather than admit that they are at fault, it becomes the Church's fault in their eyes. Some people apostatize, lose faith, or adopt teachings that are contrary to or oppose those of the Church. There are a lot of different reasons a person leaves. The end result of all of them is the same: the influence of the Holy Ghost diminishes in their life. The Spirit strives with them for a time, but eventually the Lord will respect their agency and the Holy Ghost will depart. When they break their covenants, they lose the protection and blessings of those covenants. They just become "natural" men and women. Unless a person formally requests that his name be removed, the Church will maintain contact at whatever level they're comfortable with. There is a member of our branch that I work with, who has no intentions of ever coming to the Church. However, we're cordial with each other and I inquire periodically about the individual's welfare to see if they have any needs. That person can remain indefinitely in that state and we'll simply hope that one day, he/she will feel the Lord's Spirit calling. Maybe some event will make the individual desire the contact of home teachers, visiting teachers, etc. People can and do change their minds and come back after years of inactivity. One fellow I knew was inactive for over 20 years and, after he had a heart attack, he became fully active and totally enthusiastic. He had some kind of near-death experience that changed him dramatically. As long as a person maintains fellowship with the Church, it is our duty to provide a watch-care for them. That's our part of the baptismal covenant. If an individual bristles at that and asks for his/her name to be removed, then the spiritual effects are no different upon him--he's already lost the companionship of the Spirit through disobedience. However, it does end our responsibility to watch over and care for the individual. In most cases, we still feel a desire to do this. We don't "shun" people or turn them away from attending Church. However, our level of obligation is different. We're no longer under covenant to provide that same watch-care. We might continue to do so, inasmuch as the person will permit it, but it's done out of a general sense of Christian kindness at this point. If a person is hostile or makes threats, we'll avoid contact altogether. We don't send home teachers. Missionaries might accidentally knock on their door when tracting, but they don't expressly seek them out. -
Here's how I think of prayer--the analogy comes from a music class I took many years ago. Our teacher pressed down the sustain pedal on the piano in the class. She sang a note and the strings inside the piano that were tuned to that note resonated sympathetically with the vibrations of the note she sang. When she stopped singing, the sympathetic notes continued to ring until the vibrations died down. If the note she sang was off-pitch, the effect would not have occurred. She had to be perfectly in-tune with the tuning for the consonant waves to start the vibration. Without sounding overly "new age" about it, that's kind of what happens in prayer. Our job is to get "in-tune" with the sympathetic vibrations that God is sending out to us. Living the gospel obediently, keeping the word of wisdom, fasting, scripture study, etc. simply help us "tune" to the correct frequency. Regular prayer, with a focus on giving thanks, helps us get in tune also. In the end, it's not that we get God's will to bend to our desired frequency. We end up tuning ourselves to the right frequency and then we begin to resonate with it. That's when answers come. The test comes in several ways. Our patience is tried while we seek a reply. Our sincerity is tested. Our willingness to submit to the answer is assessed. When the answer comes, it often is only partial, because God desires us to experience growth as we move forward. The process sanctifies us, which is something God desires. He could grant us our petitions and we'd never change. Sometimes answers come all at once, and the answer itself tests us. It's hard to imagine all the ways an infinitely wise Being can use our desires to shape us and mold us into what he designs, while respecting free will, and accounting for the agency of others. What an amazing process it is.
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I think your answer is better found in Galatians. This is my own personal way to look at it, so you can take it for what it's worth, but I think it plays out doctrinally and scripturally. Paul saw the Lord and became a "witness of the resurrection" which is requirement that was needed when Matthias was chosen. There is a difference between having an apostolic witness and holding the priesthood office of Apostle. There are many members of the Church, both men and women, who have an apostolic witness of the Lord. Seventies have an apostolic calling, but they are not apostles. Thus, many years went by wherein Paul preached from an apostolic witness, without the benefit of ordination to the office of Apostle. We have no record in the Bible of him being ordained to the Melchizedek Priesthood, but we assume that this was the case as we understand the priesthood and the necessity of authority. In Galatians, Paul says that he went up to Jerusalem after 14 years preaching the gospel. He says that he met with the presidency of the Church: Peter, James, and John. They extended to him "the right hands of fellowship," and gave him and Barnabas charge over preaching the gospel to the Gentiles. I believe that this is when he received the office of the Apostleship. Galatians 2:9 says: "And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision." Following this, we read of Paul disputing with Peter over his actions regarding the Gentiles. I think this would have been unlikely and uncalled for if Paul were not among "equals" in the Quorum of the Twelve. I'm just reading between the lines here. but it seems to add up. It could well be otherwise.
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Great stories. Thanks for sharing. We've had a lot of experiences like them in our 28 years of marriage. Sometimes it seemed like there was no way forward from various roadblocks and obstacles at the time. The Lord always opened a way. It's amazing how it works.
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The answer is right there in the scripture you posted. 2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism. 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Somebody came along, who had taken upon himself to baptize without authority. The lack of authority is revealed in the message that these believers had been taught. They were baptized in some other name than the name of Jesus and they were told it was "John's baptism." They did not receive the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. Those who were baptized by John the Baptist were expressly taught to look out for the one who would come after him. The true disciples of John the Baptist anticipated the receipt of the Holy Ghost--these people had never heard of the doctrine. When it was clear that these people had been baptized after being taught a part of the gospel message, without authority, it was necessary for them to hear and believe the fullness of the gospel, and for them to submit to baptism by proper authority. By doing so they were able to receive the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. This scripture explains precisely why Christians from other faiths must receive proper baptism by authority when they accept the fullness of the gospel today, even if they were previously baptized in other denominations.
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After studying Eastern religions, the thing that most impacted me about Mormonism was the belief that each of us is our own revelator. There is only one true source of revelation, and when we seek knowledge and truth, it comes to us in a very personal, direct way. I was not a believer in a personal God, but I was open minded. A Mormon I had just met gave me a copy of the Book of Mormon, showing me Moroni 10:3-5, and promised me that God could tell me that it was true by personal revelation. I was impressed by that. Every other Christian sect I had talked to basically took the position that the Bible was the ultimate authority and that a believer just had to find the denomination that was the "most biblical." That seemed to me like rolling the dice with your soul. As I read the Book of Mormon, I was impressed by the powerful impressions of the Spirit that came to me. When I prayed about it, an unmistakeable answer came. I was astonished at that. I don't want to say that I didn't expect an answer, because if I didn't, why would I have prayed to begin with. I suppose I expected that the answer would unfold gradually over months or years of studying and contemplation. I wasn't expecting the answer that I got, which was an emphatic and clear, "Yes, this is true. Joseph Smith was a prophet and he translated this book." The answer wasn't spoken, but came in clear, distinct impressions. The clarity of the response caused a massive "realignment" of everything else I had previously accepted as truth. Those things which were indeed true suddenly made connections with many other truths. The errors in my thinking were exposed and I had to make a choice to either remain in error or abandon it. The choice was easy in the light of the new understanding I had. Then it hit me--because God had personally told me that Joseph Smith was a prophet, I knew that he and Jesus Christ had appeared to Joseph Smith. Knowing that was true hit me like a ton of bricks. All of a sudden, God was a personal Being. I was created in his image and likeness. I was his child. I knew that Jesus Christ was real because Joseph Smith had seen him. God had told Joseph to "Hear him." Thus I knew that Jesus had authority to speak for the Father. Through my mind these thoughts raced in rapid succession--I thought of the crucifixion and the atonement, what Jesus had suffered, and how he had risen again. Like Alma (whose testimony I had not yet read) I came to this sudden roadblock. I had sins that would keep me from his presence. In that glorious moment of light and revelation, I felt unworthy. Then, as the Book of Mormon and the Bible taught, Jesus Christ had power to cleanse us from sin. I knew I had to repent and make some changes in my life, which I was then anxious to do so that I would not lose the powerful light that had come into my life. Although I had found much beauty and peace in Buddhism and Hinduism, it was simply a preparatory experience. Nothing matches the glory of Christ and his atonement. Speaking from experience, it is incomparable. To come to a knowledge of God is indeed a pearl of great price. And once you have experienced it, you can't help but tell others about it.
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Before my conversion to Mormonism, I had investigated in-depth the beliefs of many mainstream Christian denominations. Discouraged, I left Christianity behind to explore Hinduism and Buddhism, thinking there might be something there that was not to be found in Christianity. The Dalai Lama expresses a sentiment in the comments above that are reflective of Buddhism. It is not a "theistic" religion. It is pantheistic in nature. In Buddhism, God is everything--the rock, the tree, the river, the bird, the stars. Thus, each person is simply a piece of a greater whole that changes shape and configuration constantly and eternally. Salvation is not a concept in the religion. Instead, the hope is that each individual will attain enlightenment and live in such a manner as to escape karma--and endless cycle of rebirth, suffering, and death. Thus, with no central deity, the focus is solely on individual responsibility and "works." Grace isn't a factor. Atonement is not a concept. Each person "atones" through multiple lives until karma can be escaped. When that state is reached, the individual ceases to exist and simply merges back into the universal soul from whence sprang--a state of non-being. No vestige of the individual remains. There is no heaven and hell. Thus it makes no sense for a Buddhist to proselytize and seek converts. In his eyes, you are already "god," just as the rock, the river, and the stars are god. To him, there is no personal deity who watches over and gives benificent blessings. There are avatars or higher beings who may intervene from time to time, but they are not the object of worship. Indeed there is no real worship. There was no fall or original sin. There is no redeemer necessary, there is no need for ordinances, authority, or grace. So, for the Dalai Lama, conversion is really a non-sequitur. As Christian believers, we believe in a personal God, the necessity of a Redeemer, and the fallen condition of humanity. Unable to obtain deliverance from death and hell on our own, we seek salvation through Jesus Christ who was the sacrificial lamb for all sin. His offering extends grace to us. From that point on, denominational differences emerge regarding how one receives grace, ordinances, the Trinity, etc. But at the essence, Christianity believes in a personal God, that the individual identity can continue after death, and that Jesus Christ is the key to eternal felicity. Thus, for us, proselyting becomes a duty towards our fellow men and women, because it awakens their faculties to a path we believe will save them. I have no problem with any religion that proselytes others, so long as it is done with respect to the dignity of the person as a child of God and recognizes the individual's free will. As a manner of effectiveness, I think a positive message works better than teaching individuals that they'll burn in hell forever. When I was 10 years old, i got "saved" by a Baptist preacher who scared me half to death. That wasn't really very effective and it didn't "take." I ended up coming to Christ through the testimony of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. Nobody was more surprised that I would become a Christian than me!
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Joseph Smith received the keys, powers, and authority of all the previous prophets in all past dispensations. Because of this, individual believers in this dispensation may receive instruction and valid gospel ordinances performed by proper authority. Through faith, repentance, and baptism by this authority, one can receive a remission of sins. Nobody gets into the celestial kingdom bringing his sins with them. They have to receive a remission of sins. Baptism by the authority given to Joseph Smith brings a remission of sins when preceded by faith and repentance. Joseph Smith's authority also extends into past dispensations because it permits those who died in ignorance of the gospel to receive baptism for the remission of sins by a living proxy here on the earth. Without that authority, these souls could not be saved. Unlike past prophets, Joseph's mission extends beyond his own dispensation and is intertwined with every previous dispensation. The keys and power he received also extend forward into the Millennium. They will be the means by which revelation will come to build the New Jerusalem, to gather Israel, to build temples, and to redeem those who are dead. What an amazing thing it is to contemplate! Joseph Smith is a mighty servant of the Lord Jesus Christ. If he had not been Christ's servant, nothing he did would have outlived him. His work and his name are revered because it is still active and ongoing, fulfilling the Lord's purposes.
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I hope you had a wonderful baptism experience. Perhaps you will be able to relate to the experience of the Book of Mormon prophet Alma. Real repentance is painful. So many people are taught that just believing in Jesus is how one gets saved. In reality, there are real tears and real sorrow for sin. There is resolution to never go down those past paths again. There is a turning away and forsaking of the old ways. Then comes the gift of the atonement into our lives. Christ's sacrifice washes us clean and, having let go of the old ways, a newness comes into our lives. After your baptism, the sweet gift of the Holy Ghost comes. From that moment forward, don't be troubled and don't look back. Forgiveness is total and complete. Christ's perfect atonement makes things right again. What a wonderful gift the Lord has given us.
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What happens when you have second thoughts about a prompting?
spamlds replied to MormonMama's topic in LDS Gospel Discussion
D&C 11:16-17 says 16 Wait a little longer, until you shall have my word, my rock, my church, and my gospel, that you may know of a surety my doctrine. And then, behold, according to your desires, yea, even according to your faith shall it be done unto you. Keep my commandments; hold your peace; appeal unto my Spirit..." Promptings and desires will go hand in hand. Sometimes we truly desire something, but we are afraid to pursue it for various reasons. Perhaps we fear change, or the amount of work it takes to re-direct our path. Nevertheless, we will be unhappy if our desires go unfulfilled, even if we believe we received a prompting to go another way. If we pursue a course that is out of harmony with our desires, in all likelihood we will be unsuccessful. In times like that, it is really necessary to fast and pray. After the fast, meditate on your desires and what you truly want. Then ask the Lord what he wants you to do with those desires. Mental states can often affect our ability to discern promptings. You mentioned depression and bipolar disorder. Obsessive-compulsive disorder also can affect this, because "everything" feels like a prompting to someone with OCD. A person with these complications can learn to sort out the voice of the Spirit from the internal dialogue that is often manic within them. It takes practice. The Lord doesn't want us to take a path that will make us unhappy. He often guides us through our righteous desires. He might open your mind to a particular avenue that you hadn't considered previously. Sometimes it's the case that our desires take us on a path that seems too difficult to accomplish so we experience self-doubt. The desire and the prompting may be real, but so is he fear and self-doubt. Fasting, praying, talking with a trusted loved one, reading your patriarchal blessing, going to the temple to pray for guidance can bring clarity. Once you have clarity, expect your desires to be tested by opposition. That's how you'll know if something is a true desire or not. Opposition cannot extinguish a true desire of your heart. It only strengthens your resolve to obtain the thing desired. -
In the fullest sense, the Restoration is complete when the Ancient of Days (Adam/Michael) presents the keys of the kingdom back to Christ, its king at Adam-ondi-Ahman. At that moment, all the keys from all prior dispensations will have been returned by the stewards who possessed them to Christ who bestowed them. Continuing revelation continues to guide us to a fullness of the Restoration. Parts of that process yet to be completed, which require revelation (inasmuch as we now understand or inasmuch has been revealed) include the gathering of the saints to places of refuge, the return of the lost 10 tribes of Israel, the sending out of 144,000 missionaries, and the building of the New Jerusalem, in particular.