carlimac

I wonder if you could convey that same message in a way that doesn't sound condescending?

Let me explain. The manual "Come Follow Me" is used in both Sunday School and Young Women. It is broken down chronologically with a theme for every month. The first lesson of every month introduces the topic. We've been instructed as a presidency when we teach the first lesson of the month to teach the introductory lesson. Apparently Sunday School does it the same way. So the kids will get the same lesson twice on the first Sunday of the month. Granted the SS teacher and the YW teacher don't use the same exact words and may use different videos, etc. But the topic is the same. By the third hour the kids are often saturated as it is. In our ward another member of the YW presidency has priesthood age boys and they have complained of the same thing. It's just repetitive to have the exact same material for two hours in a row. After the first week of the month there may be more variation as the teacher can choose from several different topics, but still under the same general theme. So they may not get the exact same lesson twice in a row on a given Sunday, but within a month they will often have been given the same lessons, seen the same videos, read the same Conference talks, etc. Not only that, but this has been the curriculum for the last 4 years. I'm teaching the same lesson in November that I taught last year. At least I know what I taught last year so I can change it up and make it fresh. Anatess- really? I never said our hours are useless. I said there is a lot of wasted time moving from one venue to the next. And something I didn't say before is that a huge amount of time is spent repeating announcements that were made in Sac meeting and that have been sent out in newsletters both from RS and from the ward newsletter person. Sac meeting ends at 10 -15 after the hour. People socialize and meander and we may get a 30 min lesson in SS. Same thing happens in RS or YW. I don't know what happens in Priesthood but with opening exercises with all the YM and men, then passing to individual classes, they lose a good 5-10 minutes in transition. Actual lesson time within the last two hours adds up to about an hour. Also when I taught Primary (for years and years), 40 min for a lesson was not enough to cover all the material, but too long for the kids to be confined to a little room. These are my real life experiences- not just my perception of them. Perhaps my ward isn't as perfect and celestialized as Vort's and Anatess's but its'a great ward where people are sincere and trying hard to balance all that is required from church programs with the rest of their lives. The challenge is real.

It wouldn't be going slower. It would be streamlining and making our time more efficient. It would reduce redundancy in lessons for the youth who presently get the same lesson two hours in a row. It would be less wasted time between each of the three hours chit chatting and gossiping. That can all be done after church. We went to a non-denominational church this summer on vacation. It was one hour and I came out filled to the brim with love and learning about our Savior. They even had time to discuss charitable causes and serve communion. They sang a whole lot more than we do in our meetings. I'm convinced it's less about the amount of time than the quality of what goes on in that hour or two. We waste a ton of time in the three hour block.

From some of these answers I don't think you all understand my question. I'm looking at a time warp kind of problem. 73 years before Jesus was even born, Alma was telling his son to heed to the words of Christ. Did Alma mean those words that were yet to come in about 100 years when Christ would come to earth? Or did he mean, say...the 10 commandments and other instruction given by Christ (Jehovah) to the people in Old Testament times? My question is like that of about a 10 year old looking at the bottom of the page to see what year we're at now historically (you know- the * and a date BC or AD) as we read through the Book of Mormon. Imagine that 10 yr old saying "How can Helaman heed the words of Christ if Christ hasn't even been born on earth yet? I can't be the only person ever to notice this and be confused. But Vort and a few others have explained the different words ( Messiah, Jehovah) used instead of "Christ" in the OT so I understand better. I guess I'm just wondering why when translating, Joseph Smith didn't say "heed the words of Jehovah".

No way will they get rid of Primary!!! Ever...until the Second Coming!! I would like to see the seminary playing field leveled. Right now in Utah and other Western States the kids get professional seminary teachers. Teaching IS their job. They are trained and have chosen that field because it's what they want to do. They have a passion for it. My two kids that got to experience released time seminary in Idaho loved it. My kids that have had or now have early morning seminary- not so much. I imagine there are some "called" EM teachers who are passionate and excellent teachers who love the calling. But for the most part, it has been a real drag. It's what a few people are doing because they can't say no to the stake pres when he asks. Too early for teenagers who are so incredibly busy. It's not healthy. I would also love to see a BYU on the East coast. BYU Provo is getting too competitive and nearly impossible to get in. I'd say at least 2/3 of the LDS kids out here on the east coast want to go to BYU but with EM seminary, very rigorous high schools and crazy zealous coaches who demand a lot, it's harder for them to keep their grades high enough to get in. Only a few from our ward have gotten in and they are really smart kids. Granted some have gone to BYU-I and BYU-H but only because they didn't get accepted to Provo. One of my daughters went to Southern Virginia for EFY this summer. I always thought that would be a great option for college till I went and visited. There is almost nothing to do in the town and it's a very old ( musty) and very small campus. So I'm not going to push any more of my kids to go there unless it's bought by the church and the campus upgraded significantly. That would be exciting and a real blessing to many. And I'll pitch in my two cents for 2 hour church. Shorten Sacrament meeting to 60 min instead of 75. And combine all the youth for SS- perhaps alternating weeks with YM/YW lessons. Right now our kids are getting the same lesson twice every Sunday because the SS and Youth lessons are all coming out of the Come Follow Me manual on the same schedule. It's redundant! Kids roll their eyes at it. Adults same- meet together for SS one week and Priesthood and RS the next. Primary would just be on a shortened split schedule of 30 min singing and 30 min lesson. There you have it!

How do you know I didn't search that. It didn't answer my question.

Why is the letter not relevant? Isn't that the initial source of this particular circus?

This seems like- "Let's do a knock-knock joke. You go first. OK. Knock -knock! Who's there? Uhh... I have no idea. " It's completely backwards and any third grader could figure that out. He should agree to this only if he gets to read the letter. THE letter! Not some minimized version of the letter.

Thank you! That really is helpful.

Both actually

Let me word it this way: Is the name "Christ" - the actual word- found in the OT anywhere. Was Jesus referred to as Christ before he was born? Or was he known as Jehovah or the Lord or lots of other names? I know Jesus' (or Jehovah's) instructions (his words) are found in the OT because he was the God of the OT. I'm asking about the actual word "Christ." As I was reading last night that phrase "words of Christ" simply felt too contemporary for 73 BC. It felt like reading the phrase "the Word of Wisdom" in the Book of Mormon. I also wondered if Alma was speaking prophetically. Like, "When Christ comes in the future- whenever that may be- and gives us his words, then we should follow them."

Yes! Thank you PC!!

It's what I was reading last night and it jumped out at me.

1) Mostly I didn't follow your reasoning very well and 2)It would have been better for me to simply say "things are not always as they seem." Another simple statement- We're not always right about people.

But no one is saying that yet. And if the prophet were to say that, what would be your response?

But you can't force someone else to be spiritual. All you can do is love them and help them if they want you to. Learning that lesson with my 26 yr old son right now. He's gone to a total of about maybe 2 hours of church in the past 18 months. At this point even suggesting he start attending again only creates a chasm between us. So I just love him. I share my testimony with him occasionally but I honestly can't do anything about his spirituality. I can only pray for him.

That must have been exhausting to try to explain. I find that when I try to use big words and explain something I usually make a donkey of myself. And I'm slow to figure out what people are really trying to say. I sometimes have dislexia- not in the symbols but in logic. Is there a word for that? Also baseballs disappear from my sight when I swing to hit them. I think I have a smooth spot on my brain when ideas slip off. Anyway, simply put- things are not always as they seem.

Thanks. I've been following this pretty closely for a few days. I figured it all boiled down to abortion. Didn't know about the really dirty stuff. Do we know it was Feinstein who leaked the letter? Or at least the name of the accuser? My questions are - if she is as tough as described by some co workers, why did she waffle so much about testifying. She hasn't been described as a shrinking violet. Was she just giving the dems time to re group and strategize? I think the latest is that she will testify but not necessarily on Monday? I also heard another rumor - don't know if it's true- that Kavanaugh's mother who was a judge way back when, ruled against her parents in a forclosure case on their home. So it's partly revenge, too. I'm embarrassed for the women shouting at the hearings, chanting in the halls of the senators and on the streets of DC. They appear crazed. But we have a few in our ward who regularly attend the marches and who would be in those halls if they didn't have to go to school and work. So I better not say any more.

Haha! No one but you are making it your business unless you are their bishop and and they say no to a calling that you really need them for because golf is on TV at 3 PM. And there, even I'm making a judgement about a fictional person who perhaps has such a personal reason they can't talk to the bishop about it so they make up a lame excuse.

Not in those words but clearly inferred. I didn't say YOU were prideful. But you did tell us 3 hours was no longer hard for you once you were more spiritual. My point- whether or not someone tolerates loves or hates the 3 hour block is not always about how spiritual or humble or obedient they are. And if we think that's how it's measured then we're walking in the direction of the Pharisees.

Who says that's what they would be expected to do with that extra hour? Maybe the prophet and the Lord would want each individual or family to decide how best they can use the time. If it's an extended nap and that helps someone to be more human and loving to their families, then that would be up to that person. If it's going on a walk by the river to decompress and enjoy nature, again- up to that person. Maybe it's a game of horse with a son or sewing the binding on a quilt or just sitting looking out the window and listening to good music. Why do we care how others would use that hour? It's really none of our business.

To each his own I guess. But I still think it varies from person to person and I also believe the Lord doesn't expect the exact same three hours of "sacrifice" if that's what you want to call it, from each of his children. You can't apply the exact same rule in all cases to every person. What about the parent of a child with autism or sensory disorders who can't tolerate all the noise and singing in Primary? What about an elderly person who has arthritis to the point that sitting that long is so painful they can't even absorb the lesson? I just think it shows a lack of compassion and understanding and perhaps life experience to expect that all those who can't do 3 hours are slacking somehow. And dangerously prideful to think they are lacking in their spirituality. Really the only person you have to worry about or should even be making guesses about is you and your own family.

I suppose because I'm an idiot?

In reading Alma 37:44-45 we have Alma commanding his son Helaman ( About 73 B.C.) about following the "words of Christ". Which words of Christ would those be? I guess I think of "the words of Christ" as being those that he spoke while on the earth. And yet he hadn't lived on the earth yet? Is Alma referring to anything Jehovah said in the Old Testament? Is Jesus ever referred to as "Christ" in the Old Testament? In doing a quick cursory glance in the Topical Guide, I don't see any reference to "Christ" in the books of the Old Testament. The only place he is called "Christ" before he was actually born is in the Book of Mormon. So is this one of those things explained in apologetics that in translating the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith often used words in English that he knew but weren't necessarily used in 73 B.C.?

And my point is that every family is different, has different strengths and struggles. That extra hour being home on Sundays might just be the hugest blessing to them. To others it might mean they have one less hour with their BFFs and it makes them sad. I'm just annoyed with all the " well you're wrong. It can be done because I can do it" attitude that seems to be coming out in this thread. Rather an attitude of " Wow I realize now how lucky I am to have been able to make this work" And " that must be a challenge for you" seems more Christlike.