Matthew0059

I've always understood it as Pam explained it- a M. Priesthood holder should be at activities as a representative of the Priesthood that forms the power of the Church. I've never heard of the origins- maybe it's one of those 'unwritten order of things'?

Hear, hear. My concern is with some of the close-but-not-wholly-accurate assertions being made on this thread that might lead some to believe this Book of Jeraneck might be legitimate- or at least confuse some as the the source of legitimacy for scripture.

bert10, if there is only good and evil, and that which is good is from GOD, and this 'Book of Jaraneck' is not from GOD, how can it be defended as good? The base issue is whether this new so-called scripture is of GOD or not. If it is, and is scripture, it will be useful in coming closer to GOD. If it is not, it will serve to move men away from GOD. We know that GOD'S house is a house of order, and that according to LDS theology and doctrine, no new scripture will come to us except it be through or endorsed by the presiding councils of the Church. Therefore, anyone else claiming new revelation and to be a prophet of GOD must meet this requirement. So far, this Gill does not- therefore, he meets all the requirements of being a false prophet, meaning he and his work are from the devil.

Maybe this thread should be locked? It's clearly a source of grief for the OP and others are exhibiting annoyance. The original topic has been derailed and deconstructed to the grave. Nothing positive is coming from it.

unixknight- I am glad to hear you're coming back to church. I remember fondly some of your posts over the time I've been on the forums (with a few screen names) and have always enjoyed your postings. I can't add much to the wisdom and insight that has been shared, so I will say that what really matters is whether you aspire to be like CHRIST, who is the REAL ideal Mormon Man, Peter Priesthood, and Man In General. If you do, and make what changes HE asks of you when HE asks you to make them, you will always be accepted in the true faith. It may sometimes be hard to differentiate the fakers from the real deals, but you will receive all the support, help, acceptance, and real friendship (mutually beneficial and spiritually uplifting relationships) that you'll ever need.

bert10- This man, the so-called prophet Gill? His claims run absolutely contrary to accepted doctrine of the true Church of JESUS CHRIST. His teachings are calculated to mimic the cultural and basic doctrinal aspects of Mormonism to pry away the weak of the true faith. Remember the admonition of scripture- "touch not the evil gift, nor the unclean thing" (Moroni 10:30).

Sweet! Can I have a gold star or rare smiley?Let us know what you decided on once you've got a lesson plan ready. I'd be interested in it.

JAG is right: many disagreed with Prop 8 and haven't received official repercussions. I think where the line is drawn as far as disagreements go is do you actively affiliate and/or support with any group or organization that explicitly advocates and promotes gay marriage.As for masturbation, I can give you my testimony and life experience as to why it is a very bad idea and GOD frowns on it, although I agree with others' stated opinion that it isn't on the level of other sexual sins. As for tea, it might be helpful to peruse some of the topics on the Word of Wisdom from this board. I know we've had good discussions on it in the past. Ultimately, the truth of the Church is learned through spiritual means- that is, a receipt of a testimony from the Holy Ghost. This comes through following the commandments GOD has set to receive a testimony, which include study (which you seem to have done extensively) and prayer (which you seem not to have attempted yet). Until you pray, you won't feel a convincing power motivating you to set your doubts aside for the moment and move forward with baptism. I think it would be wise to meet with "an authority" as you so eloquently state. Your local ward's bishop would undoubtedly suffice. Doubts and disagreements happen with everyone- some of the strongest apostles from day one have had them. I think the best way to approach it is as if you were building a brick wall from bricks of all shapes and sizes: sometimes you come across a brick that doesn't fit anywhere, but if you keep building you will find a place to put it. Good luck and GOD bless. :)

My understanding is that the Spanish, Portuguese, and French spoken in their respective Central- and South-American countries were brought with the original settlers, who spoke those languages.We know that the Nephites spoke Hebrew and probably Egyptian- but the language spoken by the natives when Colombus and Cortez came on the scene weren't either. Clearly the language degenerated sometime after the destruction of the Nephites- undoubtedly due to the loss of the historical records (which were with Moroni or hidden by him) and the following degradation of the Lamanitish society. Though, if we believe the preceding narrative, the languages spoken by the natives are descended from Hebrew- so it still connects to the sign over the cross.

Before the discussion continues, a thought: According to scripture, "truth" is defined as "a knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come" (D&C 93:24, emphasis mine). I am unaware of anywhere in Holy Write where 'truth' is defined as any eternal or temporal law or commandment. FATHER works according to eternal law, such as the law of justice (Alma 42:13). We know that if HE violates these laws, HE will cease to be GOD (Alma 42:13-25). Therefore, these laws are outside of HIM, although HE lives in perfect accord with them. Equating eternal law to 'truth' is the same as equating one's personal understanding and idea of a tree to an actual tree. The idea may be grand, but an idea cannot provide shade or lumber.

Agreed.

I was actually going to suggest Cleon's A Personal Search for the Meaning of the Atonement, . Although it could be waaaay too much if one doesn't keep the discussion limited. And if the spiritual maturity of the quorum isn't up to par it would fall short.I'm studying that talk right now, though, so it's on my brain. Apple, you could also delve into the events of the end times and warn against apathy.

GaySaint, do you take it upon yourself to admonish me in the ways of GOD and quote the scriptures of the church you yourself cannot be a part of? You know not what you do, and I implore you to reconsider.

Because it goes against the direct advice of men they have actively sustained as prophets, seers, and revelators.Our conscience is often manipulated by evil men and spirits. The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Plastic_Starlight: Have you told your current and previous bishops the reason you don't want to go to the local YSA ward? I have always advocated following the advice of the local bishop. Of course you must do what you feel is right- but there could be reasons that you ought to attend the YSA ward. Perhaps a younger sister is feeling the exact same way and needs a friend- or you'll meet someone that will enrich your life in special ways there. I would advise being completely open with your bishop about why you don't want to attend (if you haven't already) and then listen to his advice. If the Spirit is moving inside you to make you uncomfortable, however, I'd listen to that. Just don't mistake inspiration of the Spirit for worldly uncomfortableness or annoyance with your weaker siblings in CHRIST. Most of all, good luck and GOD bless!

I'm unsure how a grievous misuse of agency is justified on the grounds that a person has agency to begin with.That is, I am unsure how the fact that members have agency excuses them from listening to and following direct advice from the prophet. Perhaps the use of the phrase "true blue" causes some confusion. In using the term I do not mean "those who have a testimony" or "those who believe or know in their hearts"- I mean those who actively do what they are commanded by those they sustain as prophets, seers, and revelators, who ponder divine advice and obey- as did Joseph F. Smith when he proudly proclaimed himself a "true blue" Mormon to the drunk man who swore to kill all Mormons. "Those who believe" and don't act are letting their faith die very quickly, leaving it alone without action.

Obulus- I'm 22 and have only been involved in the YSA wards for 4 years, but I have to say I draw vastly different conclusions. Not only have I seen and experienced death among the congregants (and one birth), we grew closer in ways that seem to preclude your own conclusions. How many YSA wards were you ever apart of? And what is your intent with your work? I see you've devoted many, many hours to this topic.

What of agency? Are you alluding to the agency of same-sex couples to get married? My apologies. My last desire was to appear condescending, as that is not the spirit in which I mean to approach this issue. Once again I lament the emotionlessness of purely textual communication.

Obedience is the first act on our part to increase faith, sister. Without faith we are nothing, and a dead faith is useless.I should clarify: only ones who will actively oppose the Church's stance on Proposition 8 aren't true-blue. Anyone who has problems with it yet still would vote Yes on Prop 8 if they had lived in California are showing obedience sufficient to be true members of the kingdom. And then there's always repentance. No one is perfect.

It was not implied unwittingly, sister.

That could be possible. I don't easily read the irony in sarcastic insults well- they often have much-too-real animosity as the driving force.However, maybe that isn't the case here. I apologize.

Ah, so wise... No wonder you were made a moderator! Thanks for the suggestion.

And thus we see that hypocrites and liars are leading us to destruction.

How could it be any other way in glorious country such as ours? Long live the RED!Uh, and white and blue, I mean.

Where's that darned laugh button?!