Backroads

SO I must confess I wound up paintballing instead. I would have loved to see everyone, but it was also next to impossible for me to get to the city.

I am so informing the government.

It would be great to get married in the temple in August, but it seems you both have some things to overcome. It's good you went to the bishop and stake president, but have you told your stake president the bishop hasn't been helpful in helping you solve this? However, on that note, the bishop is not meant to be the sole solver for any sins or problems. He can help and advise, but you can't sit around whining that the the bishop's discomfort is your reason for drinking. If he isn't helpful, let the stake president know. Maybe he can offer alternatives. At the same time, find other resources, in and out of the church. The bishop isn't the one wanting to go through the temple for you. The bishop isn't the one wanting to stop drinking for you. This is completely up to you.

I for one would love an explanation of it. Not so much as it would help me feel better about what you're doing (I'm already perfectly fine with any and all wedding ceremonies) but it would just really pique my interest and help me comprehend what was happening. It would make it all the more enjoyable.

It can be a fashion statement, but there is actually quite a complex group of Goth definitions, from merely a fashion to much more. So just because they are saying Goth does not mean it's just people who dress that way. As for the rest of it, I think much of it has been said. Your sister is probably better off, but right now who cares? Her heart is broken and she is hurting. I doubt anything anyone is going to say is going to help at all. She needs sulking, moping, and wallowing time as well as some encouragement to get back into the world. Two friends of mine broke off their engagement. Actually, it was the girl. She spent months avoiding people, even though she knew the marriage wasn't right. It took her awhile to be social and happy again, and that's good, but she also thinks a short time of mourning the loss was healthy and necessary.

No, I refuse to stock up on yellow mangos. Everytime someone buys a yellow mango, a banana, a tasty nutritious fruit, is completely ignored.

Loved that talk. Also discovered that he is my first cousin once removed.

I know answers are important and all and it's good to have a strong defense, but is it really necessary to be debating this with the people on your other forum? You have your views and your legitimate reasons for them, no doubt they have the same.

Y'all realize that efficiency is going to be a very individual thing based on individual needs, preferences, and experiences? What's efficient for one will not be for someone else. THat's why I'm opposed to the law.

I am in the "it's your day" camp. If the immediately family is supportive, that's what most important. I don't know if you guys play on doing invites, but it might be worth considering to include a brief overview of what the wedding will entail. Frankly, I think most people, even if they don't like it, have the tact not to say anything.

I shall, too. I suppose it's a hard thing to put into words, my differentiation, anyway. Peace.

I'm not sure how you distinguished between those that have never studied it but believed it (brainwashed) and those that have never studied it but believed it (studied and not brainwashed). Your two statements above seem contradictory, to me. I see what you mean here, why they seem contradictory. I shall try to reword: The first group, if you pressed them, would probably admit they have no testimony. They might like the Church for various reasons, but see no reason to study and pray. The second group THINKS they have a testimony. They like feeling good about the gospel, they like going to girls' camp and feeling happy about the church. But they have no idea what they believe because they have never bothered to sort out their feelings and beliefs. They have never bothered to see how they feel about various statements of the gospel.

Me thinketh you are just trying to find an excuse to be mad at me. What's the issue? Did I somehow offend you? You seem to be digging to find fault in my opinion. Yes, I disagree with the idea of being a Mormon just because you are supposed to. Those that get defensive about it are probably "brainwashed" and have no actual testimony of their own. If that bothers you, too bad. If you like, I will restate my words: People who truly believe something will have considered why they believe it, i.e. "study it". It might be through personal study and prayer and "book learning", it might be taking the words and testimonies of others. Either way, they will take this knowledge to mind and heart and will study it. I will admit that perhaps I made "study" sound like a research action. I mean it more as a mental process.

Not the way I see it. Even believing on the words of others is a form of studying and acceptance.

There are positives and negatives to all the types. I tend to care about the environmental costs. CFLs may last longer, but they're dead nasty to the environment.

People who are adamantly stubborn about their beliefs without ever having even thought about their beliefs, why they believe that way, or even anything about them tend to be seen as, well, unknowledgeable. I expect people in whatever religion to know about their religions. If they're just spouting off like a parrot, it's not very intelligent. And where did D&C 46:14 come from?

I'm not really stocking up, but I am irritated. There is extremely unfair lack of environmental knowledge here.

I have never liked the term "brainwashed" and people throw around that word because they know it will get to people. Nobody likes to think of themselves as brainwashed. People like to think that they used their intelligence to make their own decisions. That's why calling someone brainwashed is such a powerful-but-nasty weapon. My other critique of the word is that many people call anyone who does not believe exactly as they do "brainwashed". It's a way of closing off their own minds but acting like they are superior enough to use this term. They are right, and everyone else is wrong. It's completely hypocritical. People that do this are completely incapable of considering others' points of view. As has been said, there is a lot of stuff that Mormons grow up with, taught are truth more or less, but really aren't. It is important to study and know the difference so you are not basing your testimony on hearsay. I will say one other thing on that topic: THere seems to be two general groups of people that have not studied their beliefs. One group really just doesn't care much either way and is largely in this belief system out of habit or culture. The other believes it, but has never bothered to study it. That latter is possibly where any "brainwashed" messages can come in.

While ryanh does make some good points, is it wise to just give up on a marriage without attempting any sort of discussion over the new behavior?

Oh, I took notice. The game is on completely public property.

I think we've discussed situations on this board where bishops were frustrating. One bishop might give a sin a little more than a slap on the wrist while another bishop took a way a temple recommend for an entire year for the exact same sin.

I guess I'm not aware of any specific updates to the WoW that have been revealed as commandment. What are they?

Maybe a few Sundays of no church but personal scripture study and pondering might just be what she needs, just as long as total inactivity isn't planned.

The sad thing is that as a kid, I was really good at it for some reason. Then the skill faded away and I had to relearn everything.

Yes, my gut reaction is to see if the marriage can be salvaged. You've put so much into it, why give up now? I know the party life isn't one you want, but it seems to be a small thing against things like infedelity and so many other things. How is he treating you? How is he treating your children? The idea of possible short-term separation also crossed my mind to give you a chance to sort it out. I second the conversation Judo suggested and all that it entailed.