Leah

I am not sure I am correctly understanding what you posted about personal revelation. It reads as though you are saying you know things about doctrine that have never been taught by the church, nor have been revealed to the prophet to share with others?

So why not extend that principle to all previously tithed money? If I hire your kid to mow my lawn, or hire you to do my taxes, neither one of you has to tithe that income because a tithe has been previously paid on those dollars. Can we please extend this rationale to the tax system? Since my employer has already paid tax on the money he pays me, I sure would like all my income tax money back. I mean, I need it more than my employer does, right?

To the kid, an allowance is income. It shouldn't matter where it came from. Using the argument of 'tithes have already been paid on that', if I am employed by a Mormon who tithes, I would never have to tithe on any of my income. And if a tithe-paying Mormon hires a Mormon to clean their house or mow their lawn, no tithes need to be paid on that, either.

I haven't seen the movie. I guess it's a good thing I've read up on it...I might have missed the rampant homosexual agenda in it. I can be dense that way.

One of the attorneys I work with has this. He does share it with family.

So even if presented with the statement "Heavenly Father told me it's a-okay to have sex with my boyfriend, because I may never get another chance to hook a guy into marrying me", we are not to "judge" them? You honestly believe that would be a revelation from the Lord? Are you saying that the Lord will give individual revelations that directly contradict a commandment or a clear teaching of the church? I don't need to get worked up how much someone is paying in tithing, as well. I do have concerns when people try to promote teachings that are in contradiction with church teachings (I am speaking in a general sense here) and how some people perceive that anything - ANYTHING - is a-okay as long as they add the disclaimer that the Lord gave them the green light. I have seen this happen and I find it confusing, at best.

But people are saying we are not to doubt someone when they state they took it to the Lord in prayer, and they got X answer. If we use the interpretation offered elsewhere, if I have zero dollars left after I pay for food, clothing, shelter, etc., then I don't have to pay tithing because I have no "overplus". With this approach, I can easily do the math to show no "overplus", and therefore not have to pay tithing. If it's "between me and the Lord", then this exercise in mental gymnastics should be perfectly acceptable, yes? Are they not still following the commandment? People keep saying it's between me and the Lord, don't they? We had a poster on this forum claim that Heavenly Father gave them the green light to have premarital sex with the guy they were dating so as not to lose him. Is that between them and the Lord? Are they not still following the commandment? Is it a matter of.....here is the commandment...here is the church teaching...but if you've asked Heavenly Father if you can do something completely contrary to that, it's a-okay as long as you say Heavenly Father told you so? Or are there actually lines drawn? Investigators read forums such as this one. They could come away with a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding.

No one said anything about lying, so that protestation is a puzzlement. We are merely answering you questions and giving you feedback. If you think that is judgment, that is based on YOUR perception. A negative slant, I might point out, so that is how you are coming across. What "same thing" are you concerned about happening at the church? Nothing untoware or inappropriate has happened in your contact with the church, so I don't understand what it is that you fear. You are being offered fellowship and learning. If it is not comfortable to you to have them in your home, people have previously offered the suggestion of meeting them elsewhere. You do have that option available. I was (still am) a widow when I investigated the church. Nothing you have related here is unusual or in any way inappropriate of out of line.

Well, dang...now I am going to have to think of a different answer.

And where would said villa be? 'Cuz - you know - you'd have room for guests to visit.

Sooo.....I could say that the Lord gave me the answer that I don't have to pay tithing ever and you would accept that, correct? I mean, I am a poor widow and all that and no one is to question what the Lord tells me, correct?

You just ignore anything and everything that doesn't fit with your personal wishes, don't you? So I guess you also promote practicing polygamy and keeping blacks from the priesthood.

Do you really not understand the statement made by the First Presidency or are you just being obstinate? It baffles me that you appear to be claiming that the Prophet cannot make a clarifying statement, while at the same time YOU are attempting to "make a statement" that is contrary to the Church's clear and current instructions on tithing.

This explanation does not support your claim. A definition from a generic dictionary does not prove that that is what the Church's teaching is, nor does it show that that is what church members understood at the time. (Indeed, it contains no references to the church whatsoever). Even if it did, which it does not, as others have pointed out - the Church has clarified the stand on tithing. Please provide documentation of the current teaching that we are only to tithe our "overplus" and not our income.

How does an entry from a generic dictionary prove that Church members understood it to be this way? All the above proves is what was in that particualr dictionary that year. Look at this thread. You "understand" the law of tithing totally differently to anyone else. So...again...where is your source that confirms that that is how members of the church understood and practiced it? When someone has reached a conclusion to support what they have already decided on, it's pretty easy to go out and find some random fact to "prove" their conclusion. The church does not tell us to tithe on our "overplus". Please show me where it does.

You verified that how? Did you talk to "the people"?

This. Exactly. Especially when the perception is coming from someone who has displayed a negative attitude to start with. That, along with a lack of knowledge and some plain misunderstanding, can seriously color the version we are getting. It is standard practice for the missionaries to bring along a male third party when teaching a single sister. There seems to be affront taken to that fact alone. Offering to give a blessing - which involves the innocent laying on of hands on one's head - is not generally thought of as boundary-crossing. It certainly isn't anything inappropriate or out of line. As far as the alleged statements that this brother made....I am inclined to think that that was a misunderstanding. If you are not knowledgeable about the church, some things may sound like something they are not. I am not going to accuse one of the brethren of negative attributes or incorret behavior when I haven't witnessed the behavior myself.

There is nothing in what you have posted that in any way shows anyone being out of line. You were offered a priesthood blessing. A BLESSING. I am curious as to why you are so antagonistic.

It is between the Lord and you, and you will have to account to Him for that. But you are advocating your system to others. That's not your right, as made clear by the Church. I still see nowhere in church teaching that supports paying tithes AFTER you deduct rent, food, clothing, etc., as you advocate as correct.

You automatically blame the Lord for that situation? No other explanation possible?

It's been posted what the Church teaches today. It's clear and simple. Are we to ignore the clarifications and teachings of today and revert back to something which pleases us personally? Can we apply that standard to other church teachings? Should we practice polygamy today if we feel like it, just because it was the practice once upon a time? Should those who prefer it, go back to the priesthood ban? Under your recommended practice, we should only tithe if and when we feel we have a "surplus". So we give our money everywhere BUT to the Lord. Make his work the LAST priority on our list? If I waited to have a surplus before paying tithing, no tithing would ever be paid. And I can just imagine what mental gymnastics would be used (not unlike yours) by members to justify the various "needs" that they feel must be met before they can pay tithing. I think your last paragraph does Heavenly Father a grave disservice. If you truly understood the concept of tithing, you would know that it is NOT his intention that people go homeless or hungry in order for the church to receive tithes. That's an unfair statement or one that is woefully ignorant. If the above is how you justify the way you pay (or don't pay) your tithing, that is to be settled between you and the Lord. But the Church is clear in its' teaching that you don't get to tell others that that is the "correct" way of tithing.

Your assertion then is that we should base our tithing on what is leftover after we pay rent, utilities, groceries, gas, etc? Your assertion is that that is what the Church teaching is? And where would the line be drawn? What expenses would be allowed? Are you sure this is Church teaching or is this YOUR interpretation?

A year to enter the temple is nothing. It's hardly a blink of the eye in the realm of eternity. Those who grow up in the church spend years preparing to enter. A year's preparation is really a minimal amount of time. Anyone has the potential to be worthy to enter the temple. You just have to do the work.

I don't understand why you equate paying tithing with "buying salvation". It is nothing of the sort. It is one of the covenants/promises you make when you join the Church. If it was a matter of buying salvation, wouldn't you just send some money and not have to do anything else or live a certain way? Salvation can't be bought. Temple attendance requires worthiness and further covenants. It is obtainable by all who desire to do so. The temple is place where certain ordinances are performed. If you continue in your studies you will learn more about the purpose of the temple and the importance of being worthy to enter. I am not rich by any stretch of the imagination....it is always a struggle to make endes meet...but I am always a bit perplexed by the objections that surround tithing or in other ways making financial contributions to the church. Where else is the money to come from to pay for meeting houses, temples...and all of the various and sundry things it takes to run the church?

1. What religion do you subscribe to? (Since not all of us are LDS.) The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. 2. Were you born into, or converted to your religion? Converted from Judiasm. 3. Are you a devout, casual, or inactive member of your religion? Definitely not casual or inactive, so I guess devout. 4. What is one core principle in your religion that you feel strongly about? Just one? Hard to choose. 5. What is one misconception that outsiders have about your religion? Polygamy seems to be the most common. Or the misconception that we are not Christians. 6. Name one religion that fascinates you. Fascinated? Too strong a word.