rosie321

From all that I've seen and learned through experience in the Christian and LDS world you are pretty much on. The christian world considers salvation at the moment of decision. That nothing will ever shake you from that truth once you have it. The grace of God is the ultimate focus. If you die tonight you understand you are going to heaven. The LDS world blends that decision with accountability and sanctification. Cleaning out all the junk so to say that will keep you from experiencing the fullness of God. This can be a much scarier world if operating under fear but if you believe that all things are possible and the Lord giveth no commandment save he prepare a way whereby man may accomplish the thing he hath commanded then it is not so scary. You don't have to focus so much on protecting yourself just growing in the grace of God. Just as in the Christian world you should be progressing, cleaning out the junk and maturing in the gospel. If you have sin in you life you are bound. That piece of you is not comfortable and knows it is wrong. That area of sin in your life keeps you from God. No unclean thing can enter his presence. This puts much more accountability on the individual to make sure their speech lines up with their actions. Faith, Repentence, baptism -renewing the covenants, and seeking the constant companion of the Holy Ghost is a continual process. Not a one time thing or when ever I feel like it. If it were so we wouldn't be admonished so much to watch out for one another, to endure, etc. Eternal Life is this to know God the eternal Father and His Son Jesus Christ. Do you really want to spend eternity with someone you don't know? Many people speak of going to Heaven when they die, seeing God, a great party, or worship fest etc. But how boring would it be if you didn't KNOW Him. You wouldn't want to be there or at least I wouldn't. The decision itself will not make you know Christ. There's a difference between how you would treat an aquaintance and a friend or brother. Making a decision to follow does not quarantee that you will follow through. God wants obediences. Its like losing weight. It's a noble goal for some. Say I determine I want to lose 20 lbs but if I eat lots of junk and don't exercise what do you think my chances will be? Nothing will change. Faith without works is dead. The LDS believe "It is by grace ye are saved after all that you can do. Say we strive and don't lose weight chances are we built up muscles and are healthier for it. It just seems if salvation was just making a decison God wouldn't have said that the way was narrow. He also said that not everyone who cried Lord Lord would enter into the kingdom of Heaven. There are many many people who have cried out such as murderers etc. But they never demonstrated change. I'm sure that there were many sincere people who may have prayed but lost it. There is the parable of the seeds in the new testament to illustrate that. Where the seeds were scattered and some were picked off, others died and only a few actually grew. In the BOM theres the vision of the tree of Life. There are so many verses that indicate the whole balance between grace and works. Fear and faith. What I tell my christian friends when I became LDS is that to me I am just taking things one step further in my walk with Christ. I've made the decision to follow Christ and said the prayer in the Christian faith so I am covered that way since it is believed once you make that decison you are saved. When I joined the LDS church I indicated that now I was just taking some more steps to draw me closer to God and Christ. This is the place where I feel offers the doctrine, structure, or whatever to take me where I should be. If I'm wrong then I'm still saved right? So far, while the Christians I've known have not been to happy with me becoming LDS and strongly expressed it (except this forum where everyone works so hard to be mutual) they can not argue that I am trying to do the right thing and would be ok in the end under their individual belief systems.

Don't be afraid to honest with them. They won't bite or at least they shouldn't if they are doing what they should. :) One of our articles of faith says that we believe people should have the right to worship whom or what they may. If you do not want to be lds ever. Thats ok. Its good to just learn about it. Telling them you are not interested at this time should not make you feel that you are ever banned from seeing them. I have family who is not interested in the gospel either but they let the missionaries know they will probably never join. They still have good visits. The missionaries appreciate the honestness and friendliness given. Just promise not to ever slam the door in their face (if they are able to do prostlytizing there :) ). They don't really like the feeling of it :) Look what it did to our friendly missionary Jason Sorry to good to resist. Also if you are able, invite them over for dinner. Missionaries love home cooked food and the companies of friends:) .

I can appreciate a genuine seeker as mentioned before. So I'll take you at your word. Here are some more thoughts and answers to consider. 1. Understand that learning is line upon line. Milk before the meat as the scriptures say. Sometimes you need to know and understand other things first. If you can't accept the most basic life changing concepts of the gospel and practice them how can you understand the deeper things? Your web site and questions makes it appear as though you are trying to take a college graduate course before ever going to kindergarten. You have deep doctrinal questions which are more graduate level. This is what makes you seem insincere. At such a basic level you probably don't have the understandings to comprehend some of the deeper answers or express it in a way that will get you the answers you seek. Take an experiment on Gods words as the missionaries would say. Follow the most basic christian concepts of seek, pray, have faith, repent, etc and demonstrate you are on the right path to recieve answers. Whether you are LDS or not after that is between you and God. But you have to get that basic understanding. 2. Faith is very necessary and scary in understanding spiritual truths. There is no other way. As before, while there are some scientific proofs, for the most part "the just shall walk by faith" as the scriptures say. "Faith is the evidence of things not seen". Understand that God may not just pop out deep, indepth answers just like that. He wants you to labor and diligently seek Him. He needs you to be seeing things through the eyes of faith. 3. The Holy Spirit will reveal the truth of all things. Your attainment of recieving the fruits of the Spirit will let you know if you are on the right track. One of those fruits mentioned in the Bible is patience. You may have to wait for your answers until you graduate from college. A kindergartener can dream of being a doctor but has to go through the education and training first. 4. The LDS style of worshipping God is different from other faiths. It is very progressional. Most of the other christian faiths I have ever known, while they encourage rightful living it is not expected to the degree in the LDS. You say a prayer and are saved. You can go to church if you want to. With the LDS its continually growing in Christ and changing. It is not a one time process but a continual one. We know we don't have to have all the answers in one day but we will get them. There is no fear. "We don't have to run faster than we have strength." It is not as cut and dry as other faiths but there is an underlying trust and faith that God will work things out as they are meant to be. We just keep walking one step at a time getting rid of all the clutter and filling it with the spirit of God. By doing this we are unbinding ourself from the bad and recieving another piece of salvation. 5. Accept that there are some things we may never know or understand in this lifetime but we need to make sure we get the basics down such as Love of God, faith, repentence, renewal...... 6. Be ready to recieve whatever answer you may get. Keep asking because with your faithful asking you will recieve the answer in the Lord's due time. Whether it be through prayer, scriptures, others you will recieve the knowledge you seek. May you find the answers you seek. In Christ

I could never join another church other than LDS. Too many brain cells required in keeping up with each different religions guidelines. Each church tends to highlight a different aspect of God. I'd hate to limit myself unnecessarily. I would rather associate with and serve in ones that are service oriented in the community and that motivate people to lead better lifes. That being said I would probably tend to associate with the Salvation Army, go back to the one I grew up in, or one like it that is very service oriented. I would get wrapped up in the service area , personally developing and encouraging people to be better than where they are at.. forget all the other gunk. I don't understand the predestination and choosing.. I can understand how chosen might work from an LDS perspective but I just don't understand how it works from a christian. In LDS there was the premortal existance that might gear a person a certain way in this life. But from the christian, please forgive me if I don't say it in an appropriate way, predestination seems like an act of a cold heartless God. Let me explain. You have this perfect, almighty God who creates man and puts him on the earth. Then Satan-whereever he came from (btw someone please answer in the Christian world where did he come from in God's perfect creation?) , comes along and then man falls away. Then only a chosen portion are allowed to return to God. The unchosen really don't have much of a chance because they are dealing with the cards they are dealt. They were created that way. In the LDS belief system people chose to come to earth understanding they would be tested. They knew that there would be some that would be more stalwart then others. Its easy to understand where people would then find their placements here on earth. The chosen would have at least "earned" their placement. Its not just God saying I messed up so now you pay. Thats the way it seems from the outside looking in. It seems like God is rather cold and heartless. He, Almighty God, couldn't even fix the "mess" he made Just some thoughts I have. No offense intended.

Just some more food for thought to add in your search and promotion of God's truth. God's truth will tend to draw out the best in people or the longterm good. It will also grant the fruit of the spirit as repentence and forgiveness are sought after. There is opposition to God's truth. Christians everywhere believe in that. Cultures everywhere believe in the Good vs. Evil. Christians everywhere need to be careful in developing the fruits of the flesh. You will feel your joy, peace, love etc. whittle away if not diligent. I took a look at your web site. It did nothing to bring out the eternal good. The verse in Timothy came to mind-"Ever learning never able to come to a knowledge of the truth". As you progress please be careful which side you really are on. While I wanted to take you as an honest seeker. ApostleKnight was correct. Your site was very one sided. It did come across a little attacking. You want all the anwers but I got a sense from the tone of your web site that it was baiting people on the line for something. Not really seeking fruitful discussion. I got the sense from the site, that you have your mind made up and any answer you recieved would be to tear someone down. I have no problem with someone who believes something different but I do have a big problem with someone who openly seeks to tear someone else or their beliefs down. Maybe on your website you could share where it is you are coming from or what you believe. Your site is very one sided. If the LDS is so off then what do you believe and why? The only thing you have done is shut the door to open LDS discussion by your tone. In your searching please be careful that you don't miss spiritual truth by looking to much between the line. That you miss out on the fruits of the spirit by seeking to destroy others. Spiritual truths are not prooved in the same way that scientific are. There are many incidents in the Bible that are not necessarily scientifically backed up as the other person mentioned. But that does not make them any less true. Unfortunately since we are so trained in the scientific it takes a bit longer to find it the spiritual way.

Joshua - As a diligent seeker of truth myself, let me just say if your purpose truly is to seek answers then I can understand what you're doing and encourage you to keep diligently seeking and praying about it. Just blindly trusting people on matters of faith and eternal future can be very frightening. There are just so many voices out there with different expectations. There are some dangers on seeking. It's a fine line sometimes between honestly questioning or searching and just plain attacking. I try not to judge too quickly as to peoples motives. Unfortunately, as others on your post have pointed out many people just go into things to cause trouble. Some people are very astute to certain patterns that some people use to just cause trouble, so the first reaction is sometimes to assume the worst. This can leave those who truly seek sometimes confused, angry, lost and frustrated. If you are truly seeking don't let anything stand in their way. If you're seeking to just cause trouble find another job. You're not going to persuade lots of people to jump ship from the truth they believe, just make yourself look crazy. In your search just know some answers may never be fully understood in this lifetime. This is a hard pill to swallow. Unfortunately the natural brain inside overrides the eternal one at times so there are some things we may never know the right answers too. I still get lost in this area. But there are definite things I do know-without actual proof. I have never seen actually seen Christ in this lifetime but I believe He lived and died. I feel and know that as strongly as I know anything else. There are so many things that don't make sense but just are. Some of your questions may have truthful answers out there but may just not be understood in this lifetime or not at this moment. Its a progression. One strong thing I've noticed about the LDS faith is that there are many things that do blend in with the Bible or are possiblities through that standard piece of work to so many faiths. Some very LDS things like baptisms for the dead, preaching to those in Spirit prison..... There may not be the proof we seek but it is a possibility. Unlike some other doctrines which seem way out there. (sorry don't want to blast other faiths but there are definite things you start to notice if you're really seeking). Curious -I saw where you posted the web sites that EricM on your web site but have you actually read through them? (Thanks EricM btw ). If you're serious I encourage you to do that. Give it a chance. I'd be interested in knowing what you think after you've read them. While I haven't had a chance to read through it all it looks like it may have many if not all of the answers you seek. I am very excited to read it myself. Hopefully if you are seeking truthful answers, as am I, you will have some answered there. It looks like it has so many on there. I can't wait to read it. If you actively read these and then ask your questions people might not come across so strong or defensively.

Just some personal thoughts I strongly believe that LDS are closeminded and judgemental at times Is that all bad? I don't think so. We have to have a separation line between ourselves and the world. That will probably be a little different for each of us depending on our individual experiences. We have to judge for ourselves what is right and wrong. We need to constantly be asking ourself and have an awareness: What kind of message are we giving to others? Can others see a change or difference in us? Are we doing in our own lifes what would best reflect our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ? If its not good then we need to make changes. Most times the things that are judged are good things that we should be concerned about but people take them far out of prospective. The gospel should ultimately build us, others and Christs church up in the long run. They should reflect our love and service in the name of Jesus Christ. The things of Satan will destroy or keep us from that. I believe we need to be more concerned with the content of the heart and not just putting on a show following some little rule for others. We need to watch how we treat others or we will just become a hippocritical, showy people who God will judge harshly on the last day. Unfortunately there are many walking around who do not feel or act the same. Thats when I have to take a step back. We are all learning and growing so there will be people trapped in the legalities of things and missing the whole point of what the gospel is all about. Then there are people who don't get concerned at all in what they should be doing and annoy those who are. It's a learning and forgiving experience all around. One thing I have seen, and I think some of its because of the history of persecution, some people are desperate to come up with some things to seperate themselves from other faiths and try to make it so much better than it is. Its almost as if people aren't doing certain legalistic things particular to the church then there is a fear there is nothing to separate us from the other churches. As Satan is getting stronger many members have focused on outward signs of faith and not on the heart. There is such a rich history in scriptures of this happening-the Pharisees and Saduccees for example. By doing these things we have some measure to judge ourselves by and don't have to actually look at our own hearts and determine its intent. It comes out of fear and maybe a little pride. Just some of my thoughts and ideas on the topic.

I believe that there is retribution. What a man reaps he will sow as talked of in scriptures. But let me also point out a few other things What did Job do wrong in the sight of God? He was tested to see his strength. When Christ came across the man to be healed everyone was wondering what the sins of the parents were that caused it. Christ rebuked them on that. Couldn't God be testing everyone else to see how they will respond to a tragedy. Tragedy does make people consider strongly where they are at.