Timpman

That's a good point. However, there may be some situations where we simply follow the prophet even though the pure secularists won't buy any of our logical arguments.

Here's a really good talk about this: A More Determined Discipleship - Ensign Feb. 1979 - ensign I added the bold emphasis.

I didn't mean that. It's an assumption you chose to make. I can see how someone might think "Only purely secular arguments can be made when making and interpreting laws of the land, but I choose to follow Christ and I am a faithful member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."I pointed out what I believe to be differences between PeterVenkman and myself and wrote "I am sure you will let me know if I am wrong on any of those perceptions of your viewpoints." I think that was fair enough. I'm listening. I want someone to consider the whole context of the history of the United States and tell me why religious morals should be banned from discussions regarding laws.

So I guess I rocked the strict secularists.

Hala, you have not been to the temple yet?

I'm really sorry.

I'm going crazy. I made two posts that disappeared. Would I be notified if I got moderated?

Is this thread locked?

I think Tyler90AZ has been going through the repentance process and recently resumed partaking of the sacrament. That's the context.

The OP actually wrote "Now back to Gay members of the Church. I wonder if perhaps the desire to be Gay or Lesbian will leave them once the get to the spirit world, and they too can be provided with worthy mates" so it sounds like he is thinking the opposite might be true - that same-sex attraction will go away.

Still, I see no problem with new threads being created.

This type of comment annoys me. Not everyone has been on this forum for years. And I haven't seen a search function that could be used to find topics. I don't see any problem with starting a new thread about a topic that has been discussed many times before :)

I reckon the desire will leave them. The desire is probably only an earthly, mortal one. I'm only speculating, of course. Isn't that fun to do sometimes?

Hang in there, bro.

Seriously, it's shocking to read questions about poisoned Kool Aid and murdering a pregnant actress when asked by a member of the church. I have only heard such arguments before from atheists and anti-Mormons. It was very surprising, so I asked the question.

The writers of those amendments and the voters did not have problems with sodomy laws. What's so different now? Hospital rules, inheritance laws, taxes, and many other things can be changed. We don't have to allow same-sex marriage to even things out in those regards. We live in a country established by God. The Constitution was inspired by Him. How soon we forget. People can live how they want, but AGAIN I'm tired of radical activists trying to FORCE me and the rest of society to acknowledge and/or condone their unholy unions! That is what this is really about. Or, people like to think they made up moral philosophies, but those morals have been around since Adam.

Something went wrong with my last post. I used those four points as a springboard for this thread, but I wasn't specifically asking for you for all the details of your previous arguments. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I ran away (I'm still here, obviously - t's hard to stay away) because: 1. You seem to believe the separation between church and state is an impenetrable iron wall and I see see it as more of a picket fence with a swinging gate. 2. You are focused on secular logic only and I believe it's okay to also consider religious morals. 3. You tend to heed modern philosophers and I follow the prophet. I am sure you will let me know if I am wrong on any of those perceptions of your viewpoints. In view of these differences between you and I, it's useless to present my arguments. Why? Because in the case of same-sex marriage and other so-called rights, the evidence I wish to present is not even admissible in your court. So the questions of what is or is not a right and what should or should not be legal in our society cannot be effectively debated. We first need to establish what can be considered in the argument, and we can't seem to agree on that. Recall that God established this country to be a free land wherein the Gospel could be restored. It does not make sense that the philosophies of man and of Lucifer should prevail while the guidance of God and His prophets and religious morals should be contemned. I believe you and many court judges interpret the Constitution far too loosely. There were wicked judges in Book of Mormon and there some around today. Since the Book of Mormon was written for our time, maybe we should consider how those stories apply to us now.

I was being snotty and I am seriously sorry about that.

Yes, arguments like your's will make it to court, but that doesn't make them RIGHT.

Vort is my hero of the day. Scratch that - his profile pic is hideous.

It's in the Book of Mormon. Have you read it recently?

I am talking about prophets of the church of which you are a member! According to your profile, anyway. I'm talking about Adam, Noah, Moses, Nephi, Joseph Smith, Thomas S. Monson, and so on, not random guys who merely claim to be a prophet. Do you think following President Monson is dangerous? I actually didn't ask.

That doesn't change what the prophets say. It's too bad so many don't listen. I suggest reading that whole page that I linked to. There were many negative things about the ERA. I'm not going to respond to all of your points. I am not learned in all the arts and cunning of the people. You can refer to the opinions of wicked judges and the so-called logic of the day. I will bow out with this:

It's really too bad that members of the church can be advocates of same-sex marriage. I wonder if some really think their intellect is greater than a prophet's leadership. I am thinking about the positions you have laid out and I've heard all these progressive and so-called intellectual arguments before. I may or may not respond to them.

I think the current debate over same-sex marriage is much like the one over the Equal Rights Amendment: The Church and the Proposed Equal Rights Amendment: A Moral Issue - Ensign Mar. 1980 - ensign