Desertknight

Could be worse. Could be Moscow, Russia.

I've heard this before about LDS belief concerning the Agony in the Garden being part of the atonement and have always been curious as to the origin of the church's belief. Sorry if I'm not using the correct terms but was this always part of Mormon belief as interpreted from scripture or was this part of revealed belief? As in through revelation?

Only in the western church. The eastern Catholic churches have always used either a translation in the vernacular, (The Chaldeans use Aramaic, for example) or the original Greek Septuagint. As important as the Latin Vulgate is in the west, the Catholic Church has never had just one "official" translation of Sacred Scripture.

From my religious perspective, it is hard. At it's easiest, it is still a pebble in my shoe. I want it my way, the truth to be as I see it or feel it, not what it is, God on my terms, not His. Fortunately, God does not expect we will become perfect in this life, but He does expect us to remain faithful and strive for it. With faith, hope, and charity, it never becomes easy, but it does become joyous!

I think we may be talking past each other. In any event, if the government were to stay out of morality, those who advocate for abortion, pornography, drug use, etc., would be pleased as punch. I say, that has already happened. Your take is that the government is in the "morality business", but is promoting a warped morality. It makes no difference to my argument as in either interpretation, the abortionists, pornographers, and drug users, would still be doing handsprings is the government would get out of enforcing morality all together. That is why it is no surprise when libertarians advocate for those exact "rights" as here from the Libertarian Party Platform...We support full freedom of expression and oppose government censorship, regulation or control of communications media and technology. We favor the repeal of all laws creating “crimes” without victims, such as the use of drugs for medicinal or recreational purposes. Government does not have the authority to define, license or restrict personal relationships. Consenting adults should be free to choose their own sexual practices and personal relationships. Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration. That is just a sample of what it means to be a libertarian, to advocate for the removal of the government from individual moral issues. I'm agin' it.

To the contrary. All of the examples that I gave were the result of years of successful court litigation and legislative action, to remove the state from the morality business and the defence of the common good and put in it's place the evil idea that they state aught to just stick to arbitrating "rights". Hence, if I want to produce pornography, kill my unborn child, use drugs, or harass people on the sidewalk for money to pay for it, it is my "right" to do so as the State no longer has any business telling me how to live.

I would argue that it has gone berserk when it doesn't. As when the government decides pornography is free speech, killing unborn children is a right of privacy, and living homeless and meth addicted is individual freedom.

The reason it is considered a right, is that it is something that the State is obligated to ensure for the common good. Think of it this way, if the person in question were a child, virtually no one would question, (whether that is done by a private hospital or the local government, national health insurance, etc., it not the issue.), that the sick child has a right to expect care. The child does and so the the community or country they live in is obligated to meet that moral right, just as the State has a obligation to ensure people treat their animals with dignity, or protect the unborn, or that the environment is protected. The State is obligated to ensure those things and people have a right to expect that it does. My 2 pennies, anyway.

I added a picture of it on my profile. With me, simple and traditional is always a good bet. :)

I believe it is a right, but that does not commit me to any particular way that such an obligation should be fulfilled.

There almost always are. I definitely would not shoot in a public park, even if deserted. Most cities have archery ranges or some vacant lot that might work. I live in a town so small people still leave their doors unlocked, so lots of places to shoot. p.s., I love your homage to the Little Flower in your statement of faith. She is a favorite of mine.

Shooting my bow into some hay bales at sunset. Quiet prayer outside. Anything outside!

I love that!

I can't speak for Mormons, but I think that many Catholics are simply poorly catechised (religious instruction) as to what infallibility is. It has nothing to do with being a prophet, having direct feed-back from God on issues, or the pope being an impeccable person. Every Catholic, (with one exception), from popes to parishioners, is and has been a sinner, and imperfect in their holiness. My Church will also always have "cafeteria" Catholics as well, who pick and choose what they wish to adhere to and believe, as the call to holiness is a tough and uncomfortable road. We all want it our way, especially man in the modern and post-modern age.

And part of the reason for that is that so many have done what I cautioned giantC about, i.e., buying into what modern society tells you. "Sexual reassignment" surgery does not correct, reassign or change anyone's sex. At the end of that surgery, (And pardon me for being graphic.), the patient does not have the sexual genitalia of the sex desired. They do not create female genitalia for a male patient, for example. They simply mutilate his male genitalia and surgically deform the body to create the illusion of female genitalia. The are still biologically men. Their male organs have been cut away and their body deformed into something that will give the illusion of female genitalia...but it is not. Their chromosomes are male, their physiology is still male, etc. That is the difference that you raise the question over. It is not the same either morally or ethically, in say surgically repairing a cleft palate.Now, none of that has anything to do with having a closed mind. It has nothing to do with how I "feel" about giantCplus or anyone else who may be transgender. I hate to think of anyone being rejected or unloved. I certainly love them as I am called to treat all with the dignity, respect and love, due all human beings, and for me, that means speaking the truth to them.

Hi, Josh and welcome! I'm new here as well. I'm retired USAF and a history buff.

Hello, Madeline! I'm new here myself.

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That is awesome that you are going back, Funky. In many ways I wish I would have waited, been a bit more mature, before attending college. I agree with Vort that BYU is not really designed for the mature student in mind. If you wish to study in America and experience it within a predominately LDS culture, you might try looking at my alma mater up the road, the University of Utah. It was founded as the first LDS institution of higher learning, but is a state school now, but it is in a beautiful area of Salt Lake City and the overwhelming percentage of students are LDS and I think more diverse in ages. A large number of the students are married, work, and commute to campus daily.

Oh, for duh. I just noticed on your profile that you are German. I'm "preaching to the choir" about Weissbeir. I don't understand that last part, though.

You are correct that is is a "wheat-beer", Weissbeir. I don't know what label it is but that is a popular brew in Bavaria. I forget what size that is, but I've had a few when I've been in Bavaria and it does sneak up on ya'! That stuff is like drinking a freshly baked loaf of bread. Yum!p.s., I'm sure he drank it! Weissbier seems to be a favorite...

I agree with much of FunkyT's post but think that the problem is that western societies have become so secular, so detached from basic Christian morality, that much of what the government tries to do regarding the "safety net" has been highly destructive of traditional family structure, and therefore, the common good it is obligated to protect. I have a little blurb that I posted on my Facebook profile where it says to describe your political views... "Republican, but one who holds that conservatism without the concept of the 'common good' is as immoral as liberalism without the concept of God and the natural law." It is the later danger, that our country is plagued with. It's policies have helped to encourage the mothering of children out of wedlock and the abandonment of those children by their fathers. They encourage either a near permanent dependency on the state to care for those children, or more evil alternatives like artificial contraception or worse, simply killing those children in the womb. It's public housing has served as fertile ground for gangs and drugs. Some of it's activity in education, has been to assault the very morality that would keep the other evils described above, from happening at the rate they do, in the first place. I am not a libertarian, but the State cannot simply be 'centrist'. It must also be moral in it's actions. That it isn't, is the reason we see the rise and popularity in America, of the evil idea that the State and it's political authority have no business in ensuring social justice and are by definition, evil. Both are wrong.

Nice! :)

This such a sensitive topic that I am very hesitant to comment, and for exactly the reason that one can see from the exchange here. giantCplus, it is impossible for me to truly understand your struggle and I have nothing but good will toward you, but I would be cautious in buying into what modern society tells you, regarding this issue. I'll just stick to one point that FunkyTown has made that I was curious as to why so many posts in this thread, has avoided. There is no such thing as a "sex change" operation, or sexual "reassignment". That is an impossibility, a modernist fiction in our morally twisted age. Modern medicine has managed to come up with inventive ways of genital mutilation, and tampering with the human body physiologically, and then advancing the lie about what they really do. Now it may have the effect of making it easier to present oneself with the appearance that matches the psychology, but it can't change creation and it is, IMHO, mutilation and not surgery. Nor could there be any valid marriage to someone who would still be of your same sex, afterwards. I don't have any bigger answers as it is pretty foreign territory to me, but I can pray for you and hope you explore this more completely as FunkyTown suggest.

That is a pretty good statement of what my earlier post alluded to. I don't have an absolute conclusion on the topic, but your post here is very helpful in presenting what I tend to think is the case.