JosephP

In reading D&C 76 I get no clear picture of there being a spirit prison, from verses 103-106 it gives the impression that its a straight to hell progression, almost as the Protestants teach. The term spirit prison appears in none of the scriptures. What's the origin of the term and what is its scriptural validity. Don't misunderstand, I'm not doubting the concept, but I've been asked and I'm not sure how to summarize it using scripture.

Welcome Anangel I saw you listed your religion as LDS, but used the terms pastor and First Lady. That's not a term I've ever heard applied in the LDS Church. Am I missing something?

Personally I think just the opposite. I would think a good temple recommend holding member would like to add a small donation to DI along with their purchase.

Thanks for all the replies. It's added to my grasp of the message of these scriptures.

I do understand, I also have had terrible doubt. There were times I didn't even want it to be true. What I have learned is to just grab hold of the iron rod and continue on. The spirit does return, my testimony does not only return but actually strengthens from the trial. You didn't say how long this has been going on, or if you talked to someone face to face. It's hard not to just answer in generalities unless you are willing to provide some more detail.

It wouldn't make the slightest difference to me. Being of service is a blessing to both parties. I don't try to judge if they are worthy of giving service to.

I would like some opinions on these verses. I'm not gaining a clear understanding of their meaning. 19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; (New Testament, 1 Corinthians, Chapter 1)

I'm not understanding, are you saying there is a change in policy, or just wondering how people would feel about it if it happened?

Hi NH, I'm originally from NYC, now in Az. Welcome. Care to share a little bit about yourself?

I'm not sure I'd agree with that. I consider everything that is said at conferences to be both inspired and an excellent example of our beliefs, but that's not the same as our official doctrine. The difference, speaking only for myself, is that these inspired talks are correct in context to time and place they are made. That doesn't mean they can stand the test of infinite truth, as the scripture can. Reading the words of people during the Mormon War may have been inspired for those people, what they needed to know and feel then, but its certainly not scripture. I love our conferences, I try to absorb every speaker's message, and will reread them, often several times, but none of that raises them to the level of scripture or official doctrine.

The bottom line, for me, is that inspired is important, but it is not scripture. There are many things that church leaders have said, and that I believe, but I do not defend as scripture. One only needs to look to the bible to see how many teachings the primitive church leaders were teaching that needed correcting by Paul and others. I'm sure the leaders who were teaching them felt inspired that they were teaching the truth. The difficulty comes when discussing things that are not scripture online with people who's actual motivation isn't understanding, but fault finding. I've had numerous experiences on ask.com of people pretending to want to understand, and the instant you talk about something that isn't scriptural they want to bash it. I don't know what the Celestial Kingdom will be like, no one does. We've had inspired leaders giving us examples, a way of perceiving it. The fact that I agree with them, like to imagine it that way, doesn't make it scripture. As such it can't be defended against people who want to bash us for it, so why enter into the conversation. There are unimaginable numbers of Protestant opinion on different verses of the bible. We don't run around saying some preacher in 1848 said this about revelations, therefore you all think that. But that's the ridiculous standard that want to hold us to. To say we are being disingenuous, while ignoring the total dishonesty of many of these 'investigators' who claim to be seeking understanding, while in reality are looking for anything to booster their misunderstanding with, is silly. I've been doing this online long enough to know that the fault finders outnumber the knowledge seekers at least ten to one. If I seem preprogrammed to be defensive, thank those that have attacked me for years.

Some non-members seem to think that anything ever said by an LDS leader is doctrine. Our leaders have opinions like everyone else. Not everything they say is scripture. I've been in online discussion with people who simply refuse to accept that. They are determined that a church leader said something 160 years ago, so obviously we all believe and teach that. I would recommend that when someone tells you we don't teach it, that you believe them. Look for your "meat" in our scriptures, not our editorial page. No member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints will ever deny anything in our scripture.

My bishop prefers email to text. In a time sensitive issue obviously text is better. Why not simply text him and ask what he prefers?

My bishop prefers email to text for routine matters. In a time sensitive situation text is the obvious answer. Why not just text him and ask? ;-)

I said in my first response that I thought some of the responses were uncharitable, But I never thought any of them were anything but helpful. Sometimes when dealing with factual answers to emotionally sensitive issues, the stated facts seem cold and uncaring. I don't think that's how they were intended by anyone. I encourage you to ask the other questions that you have. Understand that you are in a written forum, much of the emotion and sensitivity is lost in text. It isn't that people don't feel it, it is just hard to express when writing answers to a specific question. I am sure that the people here, like myself, truly care about you. Don't turn away because we are limited in how we can demonstrate our fellowship to simple black on white text.

Only English, my parents spoke Russian at home but they did not teach us, or allow us to mimic Russian. That was in the days when parents were determined that the children only speak English so we could succeed as Americans. In my house, trying to convince my parents of the merits of bilingual education would get you a quick invitation to the other side of the front door.

I'm sorry that some of the responses you've received thus far have been less than charitable. I know you are aware that you have committed a serious sin. By my definition you have committed adultery because you have broken someone else's marriage covenant. The opinion that matters now is that of your bishop. I'd hope you feel a strong desire to see him soon, so you can begin to put this behind you. There is only one lesson you need to learn from this experience once you have repented, and that is the lesson the Savior said to the women in your same situation; "Go, and sin no more" May you find true repentance through counseling with your bishop. And may the lesson you learn carry you through a lifetime of determination to honor you covenants. I wish you every success.

Yes, I am a home teacher and deliver the First Presidency message every month. I had a companion in the past whole always asked if there was a special lesson they needed as well. I've tried to follow that practice, not replacing but adding an additional message when needed. Often times with my active families they've read and taught the First Predidancy message so our review doesn't always take a lot of time.

Sorry, I thought you were personal checking license plate. I could not be more Greatly relieved. I have nothing to offer concerning the original question and boyfriend. I was in a similar experience, my conversion was real. Other than fully exploring his doubts, and emotions, I'm not sure what distinction there could be between his motives and other people's motives for coming to the Gospel. As for the North Koreans, I learned about this decades ago. From what I remember their success was based mostly upon the use of new psychotropic drugs, combined with brutal acts of torture. There was an initial surprise among the American forces of how strongly turned the captured Americans seemed, and the new term brainwashing grew out of it. Upon recovering their health the effects were more obviously simply that of torture. Because of the influence of the Cold War, and the need to demonize the communist, the Americans Popularized the idea of brainwashing to show what a great danger communism was to democracy. At least that's what I remember of it from having learned about it many years back.

Quickly on brainwashing, the examples you give are classical conditioning, which causes one to respond favorably to receive a desired reward. Brainwashing is suppose to change a person's moral compass, rewrite their mental map. That is a fantasy. The supposed success the North Koreans had in the 1950's with brainwashing proved to be nothing more then very successful and sustained torture responses. Sadly the fantasy of success has remained with us. Now on to the real issue, your lack of faith in your conversion, and the desire to tell your wife. First off, are you willing to talk about this loss of faith at all? Are your doubts something you are willing to discuss here? Have you made a decision on this or are you still uncertain? Sorry if I'm prying. You know old men, we ain't got the time or patience for a lot of beating around the bush.

Brainwashing? There is no such thing as brainwashing outside of spy fiction, and conspiracy theories. Am I missing something here? If you meant it jokingly a smiley would have really helped. Being new here I don't know the personalities yet, so forgive me if I seem dense.

I do understand your feelings though my situation is entirely different than yours. I was divorced a few years ago, and being a single, older male in a family ward is an extremely lonely experience. In some ways I have given up trying to fit in socially. But that doesn't mean that I do not have an active involvement with in the ward. When I haven't heard from my home teachers, I call them and ask them when they're coming. I suggested them it and tell them the message I need to hear. When they ask if there's anything they can do to help, I tell them. Call your visiting teacher, tell her you need a visit and set up a time. Take responsibility, it is a two way relationship. I was also in the primary, as a teacher. After a year it was necessary for me to go to my bishop and tell him that I needed adult LDS conversation. I have no family, and no one at work is LDS. He Released me from my calling within a few weeks. I am now the single adult representative, a much more appropriate calling for me. Also make use of online resources, such as this one. I know I am not the only one who would be glad for another regular contributor to this forum. This form currently is as close thing I have to a social life with other Latter Day Saints. So in short, the advice from the old man is; Tell your home teachers what you need to hear them teach, and how they can be of service to you. Call your visiting teacher, set up a time with her and tell her how you're feeling. Talk to your bishop, tell him you are feeling isolated in the primary. And lastly, and I apologize in advance if I am talking out of turn, but talk to your husband. He has a right to know how his wife is feeling. BTW If you ever need someone to talk to, please know with certainty that you are free to contact me by private message at any time. Not only would I be glad to be there for you, it would be a very big blessing in my life to have someone to talk to also.

Sorry to come to this discussion so late, I just noticed it. When I first learned about the church it was because I was dating an LDS girl who wanted me to know about it. At first I thought its claims were too fantastic to take seriously. I figured I'd meet the missionaries, show them what a pile of garbage their beliefs were, and move on with the girl convinced I was so wise. I argued with them for weeks, neither side gaining or giving an inch. Finally one of them challenged me to read and pray about it. I did, the Spirit answered, the rest is obvious, I joined. Simply encourage him to sincerely pray about it, if he truly wants to know. More than that you can't do. No one is converted by argument. Good luck.

Hi Colleen, Welcome! I'm very glad you decided to join with an attitude of fellowship. I hope I can both learn from, and perhaps offer something toward your goal. When you say you're "traditional Christian" are you referring to Protestant, Catholic, or something more specific? I personally was raised a Eastern Orthodox (Catholic), became envolved with the 'born again' movement in the 70's so was a Protestant for several years. I first heard about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in 1979 and after initial opposition developed a testimony and joined in 1979. I've been away for awhile and have reestablished myself with a firm testimony for the last 4 years. Is there anything I can do to help get you started? I'm new around here too!

Welcome, I'm also new here. I'm both a convert and returned 4 years ago after being excommunicated. My answer to your question is rather simplistic, I fear. If you feel the spirit is leading you to learn about the Koran, than by all means pray about. If you feel at this time you are being lead to the Book of Mormon than pray about that. I don't think you need pray about every book in the library just to give them equal treatment. I heard a quote somewhere that I think sums this up, "You can't save the whole world, but you can help those that God places in your path!" You cannot know all things, but you can learn and gain a testimony of the things God has brought you to.