JosephP

I've never heard the story, but I agree with the bishop 100%. The importance of home teaching is constantly being stressed in priesthood meeting, yet so many guys think of it as an afterthought. It should definitely come before any other calling.

I've never experienced it personally either, but I was remembering that Ghandi credited the Christian concept of turning the other cheek as the basis for his non violent/non cooperation campaign for Indian independence. They took many attacks without striking back and won their freedom through it. I know that's a simplistic retelling, but I think you get the idea.

I'm not sure what comments you're hoping for since you didn't ask anything. I think you are at a crossroads, and you need to decide if you're in or out. You can balance in the middle for only so long. Obviously most of the people here would encourage you to get active, and live your covenants. My question is, why are you still on the fence? Obviously the gospel is important to you or you wouldn't be seeking input here. Without know where your heart and mind are at, there isn't much anyone can offer other than the generic, come back, you'll be welcome.

I'm not so sure, I think we are at our highest understanding of being Christlike when we do not strike back even against physical attack.

Your response has given me a lot to think about. I want to thank you for it. Don't let the brevity of my response mislead you to the importance I've placed on it. I'm just taking some time to really assimilate it fully.

It has been hard work for almost four decades. Perhaps there is still the underlying doubt, the unwillingness to become a target for abuse again. I don't know. I can't afford or desire to get more counseling. I think I've talked this to death. I think it may simply be a scar I will carry all my life. It's seldom an issue in my day to day life, few people are abusive to me. But when it comes up I'm always so disappointed in myself for "losing it" again.

Thanks for your reply. While most of the replies have been excellent answers as to why turning the other cheek is so very important, it hasn't really helped with my question of how to control the involuntary initial negative response I so often encounter. Coming from my very violent background I did seek anger counseling early in life, most of it by choice, some court ordered. When I can get my brain engaged I have little trouble seeing the Savior's example and sincerely try to emulate it. It's the knee jerk reaction I'm trying to control. When I punched the person who struck me in anger there was no decision, no thought process. Like pulling your hand away from a hot stove I just instinctively struck back. That's the impulse I'm trying to control. I honestly believe that I'm not having a problem with forgiveness or self control, its impulse control that's an issue. I was told in counseling years ago that reacting calmly would become second nature over time and I wouldn't respond impulsively. They owe me a refund, cause it just ain't happening.

Yes, I recognize those words, they are not all that different from those I berate myself with after the fact. Now if I can just figure out how to get my brain started before putting my mouth in gear I'd be able to remind myself of that in time.

Yeah, I really do think I get that, it's controlling the instinctive reaction I'm having a hard time with. I grew up in the ghettos of NYC and was physically and sexually abused as a child. When I became old enough to defend myself it stopped, and being able to react to abuse decisively has meant a lot to me. Now when I live in a much less dangerous environment, that survival skill doesn't serve me well. And it is not in keeping with gospel principles, or in having the Savior as my role model. It's just so deeply ingrained I wonder at successfully overcoming it.

I really stink at turning the other check. Someone posted in one of the comments the other day a quote from Confucius "If you take offense when none is intended, you are a fool, if you take offense when offense is intended, you are a greater fool." That really got me thinking. My personal philosophy has always been "you cannot offend me unless you intend to, but if you intend to, I guarantee you will succeed!" Okay I understand WHY turning the other check is so important, what is a complete mystery to me is HOW to turn the other check. Someone struck me a year ago and I punched them square and hard without the slightest awareness I was doing so. Often in a verbal argument if the other person becomes offensive I retort with withering hurtful words long before my brain engages. I know I should pray about it, ask for help from the spirit, but part of me is resistive to that idea. It feels like I'm trying to become a doormat, allowing other to walk over me without responding in kind. Also I just can't see how I'm going to overcome the instinctive response to lash out before reason can moderate my actions.

Welcome to the site. I can understand your desire to work with a specific population, especially the poorest most troubled people. For myself, I have found that I allow the Spirit to lead me where He will and to help those God places in my path. Perhaps if you surrender to God which vineyard you will be called to work in, some of you apprehensions will be relieved.

It appears to me that you simply aren't listening to a single thing being said to you. My perception is that you are here to beat a one note anti-Mormon drum. If I misjudged, than I am a fault, but since I don't think I am mistaken, let me wish you, in all sincerity, have a nice life.

No two marriages are the same so generalizations have limited value, but since we're all generalizing here I'll join in. Most marriages I know the wife is struggling with the kids and the household responsibilities in a disproportionate amount compared to the husband. The family is what life is about, not the football game on tv or the new jet ski dad wants. Joseph Smith taught the Relief Society sisters that they should provoke the Priesthood to righteousness. In most cases I've known the "nagging wife" was trying to get the "couch potato husband" to contribute more effort to the family. Again, those are generalizations and no need to tell me your situation is different. The stereotype of the husband laying on the couch watching the game while the wife is making dinner and chasing the kids didn't become a stereotype because we don't all know a dozen families like that. I personally call my brethren on the way they treat their wives frequently. I am thankful that I belong to a church that reinforces the real meaning of life is a successful home, not a great career or rewarding hobby. No success can compensate for failure in the home. Get off the couch, do your share, and leave your eternal partner no need to "provoke you to righteousness."

It is our job to spread the gospel, not convince anyone who doesn't want to believe that they should. If your not willing to pray to gain a testimony of the truthfulness of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and the Book of Mormon then there isn't much anyone can do. Right now you remind me of the atheist who endless repeats, prove to me that God exists. It's a matter of gaining your own spiritual testimony. That is enough proof for the millions of people who did pray and gain a testimony of the restoration. The only proof of its truthfulness is in the lives of the millions of Latter Day Saints who are striving to live a Christlike life. By their fruits you shall know them, not by physical evidence.

The evidence that the church is true is exactly the same evidence that God exists. Simply get on your knees, ask in sincere prayer to know the truth, and it will be revealed to you. --- 5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. (New Testament, James, Chapter 1)

I am neither an accomplished scientist, nor a learned theologian. I do however have an above average understanding of history. The one thing that history has taught me is that there is nothing in history that does not include many contradictions. It is a widely held assumption among historians that when all the facts lead to only one conclusion, that is evidence that the record has been altered. In the same way that you no three people observing a car accident will testify in the same way about the actions of the vehicles involved, neither do we expect that the historical record accounts will all agree, often they are outright conflicting. The fact that the verbal traditions of the ancient Israelites contain contradictions is certainly no evidence of their falseness, it can be argued that it is strong evidence that they are accurate representations of the people reporting them. To me, it is so much vanity to attempt to align the oral traditions of a nomadic people with current archaeological and scientific understanding. It is wonderful that so much does comply with modern understanding and with the physical evidence, but it is of no consequence that much of it does not. I guess the way that I look at it would be that when in a ward council meeting we talk about the spiritual needs of a family we get one perception of what the family dynamics are all about. Yet when we physically go to meet the family, to find ways to be of service to them, we often find that the physical realities are quite different from our perception by discussing their spiritual condition. I have no doubt that when we do ultimately learn the truth of all things, we will simply laugh and say, "of course, it is so obvious, why didn't we see that before."

YES, You can be returned to full membership. The process involves a more active part by the First Presidancy than just writing a letter. This is what I was told many years ago, so there could have been some change. Whatever the administrative requirements, who cares? If you are repentant and desireous to return, do so. They'll explain the administrative requirements as you go. What difference can it make if you are truly repentant?

I know exactly what you mean, guys don't tend to "do things together", I think generally that's how the sisters socialize. Most men I've known are willing to work together, and socialize up a storm while doing it, but once the job is done, they scatter. I've tried to come up with natural ways to design activities around that mentality, but not much luck.

I've focused on two brothers in my ward to do that with. I also asked the bishop to call a female SA rep, which he did. I was having a hard time telling the SA women about an activity, I don't want them to see it as a personal invitation. I'm engaged, but in a long distance relationship, so I appear more single then I am.

I'm glad you understand, and can relate diectly to the problem. I certainly don't take it personally, nor am I finding fault with anyone, least of all the church, for the reality of the problem. My attempt here is one purpose, and one purpose only, to encourage people in the church to extend the hand of friendship to a SA, and maybe to encourage others to do so as well. They can't be expected to intrude into families, they must be invited.

I don't expect the church to do anything more than it already is. The vast majority of singles aren't making use of the programs being offered now, more programs aren't the answer. As I said in my last line. The responsibility doesn't lie with the leadership, but with the members. I was hoping this would be seen by members who would then go to church Sunday and make an effort to reach out to a SA, invite them to FHE, or a trip to the mall. There lies the answer, not in more SA programs. Thanks for your advice. Both the Stake President and my Bishopric are doing all they should. I was hoping to encourage the general membership, not fault leadership.

Hi Shannon, I really understand and empathise with your situation. I started a reply to you but by the time it was done I decided to make it a new thread in the general discussion area. I hope you will read it there. Topic is "Single adults in family wards" Good luck

This new message started out as a reply to someone in the advice area, and I instead decided to post it here as a new thread. I was replying to this single sister who was writing about feeling lonely in her ward, and she was getting the usual advice that she should just try be more outgoing, friendly, etc.... I'm 57, male, divorced, and have a strong testimony. I've sat in the same place at every meeting for several years, no one has ever invited me to sit with them. In fact for the past few months, the same couple has began sitting next to me, because they always come late and they can be certain there will be nobody else sitting there. I've been very outgoing, friendly, even invited many couples to my home for dinners and games. While we always have a great time, I can count the number of invitations to their homes on the fingers of one elbow. This summer I was off work, I work for the schools, and decided I'd get active doing service projects for ward members. I told everyone I was available, even announced it in Priesthood Meeting for anyone who needed help. All summer I got two calls, and one canceled at the last minute. So I know the frustration of being told to just make an effort, be friendly, put yourself out there. I asked/hinted to be called as the ward SA Rep, hoping to get envolved organizing things. Activating the singles can be like inviting the High Priest group to a rap concert. No one's interested, few participate. It's very frustrating. Even in the SA council meetings almost every discussion is centered on the single sisters. Sometimes both men and women are mentioned, but I have not once heard any talk specifically on the needs of the single brothers. The new church handbook places the responsibilities for the single adults back at the ward level. Though I try to remind them at ward council meetings, the only response has been from the RS for the single sisters. EQ and HP remain mostly silent on the subject. Of course other wards are different, and I don't mean to generalize. Until the families in the ward, who are rightful busy with the needs of their own families, look up and remember those members of the ward who have no family, and welcome them, nothing can get better. Singles hanging out with other singles usually just talk about how hard it is being single in the church. But ulimately the reposibility of including everyone in the church as welcome friends rests not with the leadership, but with the members...

I didn't read any of the other replies to your posts because I did not want to be influenced by their answers. I was excommunicated from the church in 1983, shortly after my late wife began her seven year decline into a slow, painful death. I fully understand about not seeing the hand of God in your life. I truly understand about unanswered prayer. I can assure you of one thing however, no matter how certain you are a your feelings now, no matter how bitter you are over your unanswered prayers, you do not know, you cannot know, what the future holds for you. Had anyone told me 29 years ago that the gospel would ever become the most important thing in my life again I would have laughed myself silly. Yet here I am, and yes, it is the most important thing in my life again. You are free to turn your back upon God, and the church. They however will not turn their back upon you. Why you would want to close a door in such a way as just to make it so much harder to open again is beyond me. You will do what you will do, no one can or should stop you. But perhaps a better question is, what did you hope to gain by having your name removed? Do you think that it will prevent you from being inspired to return? I assure you, not even being excommunicated, and fully guilty, could keep God's Spirit from being able to touch my cold heart. It may have taken 25 years, but still it happens. You simply do not know what the future will bring. - Joseph P.

I prefer to word a generally dismissive apology as, "I'm sorry I offended you." Of course my thought is, "I'm sorry I offended you, I wish you had be able to accept my opinion without taking offense", but theres no reason to go into unnecessary detail. ;-)