The Folk Prophet

Well there are plenty of scriptures that show the spirit making the thoughts of others known. King Lamoni/Ammon is one. Alma and Amulek and Zeezrom is another...just off the top of my head.

Ah...man. I looked at the date to check how recent it was too. My brain just ignored the 2012 part of it...or, more likely, I can't keep my years straight.

Another interesting thought related to the church. Temple sealings may be safe via removing legal marriage from the process. But this law, technically, does force an LDS bishop to marry a gay couple in an LDS church should they so desire.

That is a viable point too. Playing devil's advocate a bit though...would you put it past a gay activist to push the issue anyway? (Not allowing gay sealings is unfair and discriminatory.) And would you put it past some "progressive" government agreeing and forcing it legally? To be clear, I don't see it happening either. But I sure see someone trying to make it happen.

Theoretically you are right. But...the "gay" thing has a lot of clout right now that may, if someone is of the mind to do so in a country like Denmark, successfully ignore that side of things and force the issue legally. It's gotta be on satan's wishlist.

Many have said the church will never be forced to perform gay marriage in the temple. Theoretically, if I read this right, they could demand marriage in the Copenhagen temple under this law already. Gay Danish couples win right to marry in church

Oh...wait. I guess the counsel was one "minimal" or "modest" pair... :) Actually that's a legit answer to the OP. When does it move beyond minimal and modest?

What do you mean? For a woman that's totally within the scope of acceptable. One pair. Acceptable.

So this is out?

"I have to be myself" is directly contradictory to the principles taught by the Savior. He taught us to be like Him, to lose ourselves, to be long-suffering, patient, forgiving, kind, and to take up our crosses and follow Him in obedience.

This is not church policy, but it is the prerogative of bishops for the sacrament requirement and stake presidents for the bishopric requirement. So...in your ward/stake, it may really not be an option.

This may shock some who know me on this forum, but I wore a dark blue shirt with a yellow tie to church this Sunday.

Seems like, perhaps, you do have it figured out. Unless you're of the opinion that this cannot be worked on or changed, it strikes me that you have a clear path of action. I understand not being liked. I've had my situations where that is the case. But I would suggest your objective should not be centered in wanted to be liked, but rather in how you can serve, help, and love others. Learn to approach your life from that perspective and the rest will, generally, fall into line.

Always? Like...always in a skirt/dress? That's a bit of a "looking beyond the mark" attitude methinks.

What do you mean you don't bake? Cookies are about the easiest thing in the world to do. Cheap, easy, moderately personal (home made) and everyone likes sweets. Of course, there's always store bought. :)

The whole forum is a joke because you don't like one person's answer? What sort of answers did you expect?

You really have 3 options as I see it. 1. Keep trying to convince them to pay you back and maybe get a bit back over time, get treated badly, fight, etc. 2. Sue them as DHK suggested (Good luck) and maybe spend more than you get back. 3. Forget about it and move on. I quote here the Lord's prayer for your consideration: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

Whereas you passing judgment on me is perfectly acceptable? How is it you are not seeing the hypocrisy? Yeah...you all are always trying to "help" me. My opinions are judgmental but yours are only a sincere effort, coming from a good place, just trying to help out the poor, sinful "jerk"? There are a few who take everything I say this way. And surprise, surprise, those few are those who have issues with conservative Mormonism. Still...fair enough. I can admit that MoE's viewpoints often brings out the worst in me. I can work on that. I will try and express my responses in ways that are less likely to come across "like a jerk". This will be my last post on this. I'm trying hard to avoid hostility and contention.

What you're talking about is different though. The ideology that God must follow certain principles to be God is one thing. The ideology that we should put our absolute, resolute faith in Him whether we understand or not is a different thing altogether. Yes, in principle if God behaved a certain way He would cease to be God. That does not put us in a position to judge His behavior. You'll have to specify what you're referring to here. I'm not following.

Give me a million dollars. Say no and there...will...be...DRAMA!!!

Right. I was reading it as, if I think God stops acting like God I shouldn't be expected to indulge him. Point being, who are we to determine when God is acting like God? There's some serious danger in that sort of approach. Historically, God has done a whole bunch of things that are not very God-like to our modern sensibilities (death, destruction, slavery, animal sacrifice, circumcision, polygamy, etc.) When we start approaching it from a, "I'll follow God until He does THIS" point of view there's danger in that. To clarify -- this is my personal opinion.

Ok. You likewise seem fixated in trying to add your personal interpretation of things, which I guess it's fine as long as you are also aware it is just your opinion. Useful response, right? Of course it's personal interpretation/my opinion, as is everything everyone ever says. How is pointing that out useful? What if I preamble every sentence I ever write with "In my opinion..." Would that appease the presumption that I'm a holier-than-thou know-it-all who is entirely oblivious to it being my opinion? What, exactly, is the point here? Everyone else who maintains a position doesn't get the talking-down-to, in spite of the fact that they're all just as "fixated" on their ideas and just as opinionated. Why are you singling me out? If you disagree with me on a point, say so.

Which translates to, "I know better than God what constitutes meaningful and important". I know it's academic and theoretical -- but really? I'm not walking out on God for anything. People have been known to be turned into pillars of salt and the like for such things. :)

I suppose I should clarify my a bit as a general disdain for the storming out/quitting attitude rather than a concrete expression of proposed action. Here's my proposal: Get on your knees. Pray for guidance. Humbly submit to the will of God in all things. Follow the Spirit. It is entirely possible the Spirit might guide one to storm out or quit I suppose. That does not make these things the answer. The answer is to honestly and genuinely follow the Spirit. I had a situation once when I was the Elder's Quorum secretary where I felt quite abused and treated unfairly by the President. He told me that I had to have the HT reporting in by the first Sunday of the month. It did not matter if the first Sunday fell on the first day of the month, that was his rule for me. Things became quite intense when I told him that was not fair. The ward standard was the 10th and the Stake report was by the 15th. He did not care. I can confess this -- I was MAD. So mad that I seriously considered something along the lines of telling him that I'd have it in by the 10th and if he didn't like it he could release me. I struggled a few days with it, with a fair amount of prayer and consideration. In the end, what I determined I was meant to do was support and sustain him, in spite of the fact that he was wrong, and have my report in by the first Sunday. That does not mean I was given the answer that he was right. He wasn't. I still maintain he was wrong. But I was given the answer to sacrifice my will and sustain my leader's mistaken attitude in that case. I believe the Spirit could have potentially told me to stand my ground and (kindly) tell him that I could not accommodate his request. But if that had been the proper action, it would not have come by way of my frustration and anger. I could only be guided by the Spirit once I settled down and humbled myself and gave to the Lord the idea that I was willing to do His will, whatever that may be. There is a time and a place to quit a calling. As a general rule, it is inappropriate. But the Lord justifies when He guides us by the Spirit, so we follow the Spirit. If we do so, we are justified. This is not to defend our own sense of justice or to satisfy our weaknesses or imperfections, or even to satisfy what we may perceive as just, right, efficient, wise, etc. It is a submission to God's will. That is my point of view. Now, if I unfairly misread the walk-out/quitting sentiments then I can accept that. But I did not read them as submissive and humble, and so...

It amounts to the same thing. If Jesus wants to speak on any subject for any amount of time, I think we ought to listen. We are not wiser than the Master. Seems mistaken to pick and choose which time and subject of God's we deem ineffective. Considering our entire existence is to one end -- to return to the presence of the Savior -- it's a strange idea to condition that based on the His subject matter and our view of how efficient He is being. It's a thread jack subject though...so......