onethatislazy

All I can say is wow from reading all this. It reminds me of the saying, Catholics say the pope is in-fallible but don't believe it, Mormons say the 15 are fallible but don't believe it. Come Quickly Lord. Come Quickly. We are nothing like Him. Thanks Skal for trying to stand for truth. I certainly don't know why they removed nor does it concern me but I can say with certainty they are eternally true. They teach of His true nature and the nature we must become if we wish to be like Him.

Faith can not be based on anything but truth. When its based on lies it will invariably be shaken eventually. Than all it will take is the truth to shake ones foundation when its preached unto them or it will cause one to anger after those who preach it. Truth can be things uncomfortable. Things that don't make one "feel good". I remember a time when someone didn't want to share something with a new member because it was "uncomfortable" or didn't want to push them away. You don't increase faith when you do that you hinder it. You don't increase faith by "hiding" or "leaving out" correct things. As one said it must be tested.

My favorite lecture series by hugh nibley (ok one of many)... https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/issues/080.pdf Starts on page 10. Subject is priesthood.

Simple. Do what Joseph did. Have a connection with God James 1:5 His first vision story should be YOUR STORY! That is pure religion. Unadulterated. Obedience only to the Holy Ghost for that is the doctrine of Christ. Lehi rises up, Nephi, enos, jacob, this is the message of the book of mormon. To come up into the presence of God, while in the flesh, and learn all things. But first you must desire it, ask, and than in patience wait for the Lord to do what is required for YOU to receive it. It may be your death bed when you receive those things but you first must ask/desire it for the Lord to set things up. " 1 For it came to pass after I had desired to know the things that my father had seen, and believing that the Lord was able to make them known unto me, as I sat pondering in mine heart I was caught away in the Spirit of the Lord, yea, into an exceedingly highmountain, which I never had before seen, and upon which I never had before set my foot." (1 Nephi 11) The reason the creeds of other religions were corrupted was because they prevented this. “I cannot believe in any of the creeds of the different denominations, because they all have some things in them I cannot subscribe to, though all of them have some truth. I want to come up into the presence of God, and learn all things; but the creeds set up stakes [limits], and say, ‘Hitherto shalt thou come, and no further’ [Job 38:11]; which I cannot subscribe to.”7(https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-joseph-smith/chapter-22?lang=eng) Etrading nailed it with this "We have a disconnect between what God said and Means... and what we think/presume/add to what he says and means."... I will say with certainty I asked for something from God and asked for it as a sign that 3 things were true. Turns out 2 years later I found out that 2 of those 3 things were false. I didn't get it as a sign the 3 things were true but instead because I asked for something and it was given. We do this when we say If A Is true than B-Z is true. When it may only be B & X and Z the rest being false.Maybe a better way to say it is We think B = A when really B = C. So we get a witness B is true thinking it equals A when really God only gave us the witness because we asked if B was true though in Gods understanding B equaled C. And He will allow us to follow false precepts. Those who come up into the presence of God, to commune with an inumerable company of angels, to have ascended to mount zion (See D&C 76) or as Nephi put it to be caught away into "an exceedingly high mountain" are those who are connected to the "true and living vine"... Baptism only opens the gate, you must climb the ladder.

God by definition is both male and female. If you want to be Like Him. You must consist of a male and female, in his image. They are one.

Adam and Eve were cast out of the garden into the telestial world. We are informed in similar language in the endowment "or the world which ye now live"... Interesting thought there. Brigham Young went as far to say YOU are living in ETERNITY NOW. And we are. The lords work continues "worlds without end". His work never changes (Moses 1:39). But the glory thereof is only withheld because... Read the next two verses in Section 76. Telestial: 86 These are they who receive not of his fulness in the eternal world, but of the Holy Spirit through the ministration of the terrestrial; Vision of Glory 115 Which he commanded us we should not write while we were yet in the Spirit, and are not lawful for man to utter; 116 Neither is man capable to make them known, for they are only to be seen and understood by the power of the Holy Spirit, which God bestows on those who love him, and purify themselves before him; 117 To whom he grants this privilege of seeing and knowing for themselves; 118 That through the power and manifestation of the Spirit, while in the flesh, they may be able to bear his presence in the world of glory. 119 And to God and the Lamb be glory, and honor, and dominion forever and ever. Amen. Joseph taught the following. Two points here. Great work... 1) Beyond the veil 2) Beyond the grave ("even beyond the grave") Do not equate veil with death. But rather with "rending the veil of unbelief" as ether calls it HERE AND NOW. If you don't do that. Than you will be found wanting, and your work beyond the grave will be greater. It takes time. It takes experience. There is no other way. God is in much less of a hurry than we are. But we see things in "time" and all things are before him continually. Past, future, and present. You have got to learn to be Gods like those who have gone before you.

I disagree. That is not what Alma 13 says. "prepared from the foundation of the world according to the foreknowledge of God, on account of their exceeding faith and good works".

Yup. He may have messed up but he never did attain to the fullness of the priesthood. Fulness of the priesthood (By God’s voice not by descent of man) TPJS, sec. 6, pp. 322–23.Melchezidek priesthood (Through the lineage of our fathers)Aaronic or Levitical Priesthood (preparatory gospel) If you want to use the LDS definition of salvation we are ALL saved. But he was not exalted. (See D&C 132)

Read Alma 13. Pay attention to the word "preparatory redemption". Ask how they were foreordained. How did they receive a preparatory redemption? How can you be redeemed? What does it mean to be redeemed? How did they show exceedingly great faith? As to the other question, YOU VOLUNTEER. ALWAYS. Agency demands it. Its always your choice. But God will not choose those who are not proven in all things.

Forgot to add the comments on the Uniform section befor eI posted it. ... And you can access the link to read more.

This thread reminds me of this article. Good read. Formalism in the Sacrament. http://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1021&context=imwjournal

Suzie I agree. We are told to use persuasion, long-suffering, etc.. I have seen way to much of it to think otherwise with close friends. Sorry but church office means nothing about ones spiritual state. The qualification is the same to receive the manifestations of the spirit. This LDS belief I believe is very dangerous. God hath not revealed anything to Joseph, but what he will make known unto the Twelve, and even the least Saint may know all things as fast as he is able to bear them...Discourses of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 150-151

Descent Before Ascent. As shown in the very ordinance of baptism, one must descend below the water before he can ascend up again as a new creature. The whole purpose of mortality gives us an opportunity to descend from God, in hopes to ascend to something greater. Eternal Life. This idea is taught throughout scripture. What did he mean by this? Why must you contemplate the darkest abyss to have your mind reach the utmost heaven? To commune with God? This was Seen at age 14. This was seen when he received the fulness of the Father and the Son. Light and Darkness. To comprehend the Light we must contemplate the Darkness. Avraham Gileadi in Isaiah Decoded talks about this a lot. There are many examples of descents before ascents in the book of Mormon. One is King Lamoni (Alma 18-19) Abraham had three major trials or descents. His self, wife, and son. Abraham on the altar about to be killed by the priest of Elkanah, Sarah about to be raped by Pharaoh, and Abraham about to kill Isaac. All which were promises to him, which in the end he was asked to sacrifice. He was promised an endless posterity through issac but later asked to sacrifice that promise. Al things were eventually returned unto him for righteousness.

Ok I think some of it semantics/context where I was using words differently. If you trust Joseph got it right that we go from "exaltation to exaltation" or as woodruff put it "probation to probation" (I may have got the person wrong on this quote) than it would seem plausible that there is Total Salvation , and partial salvation (even in the Celestial Kingdom). (“Salvation consists in the glory, authority, majesty, power and dominion which Jehovah possesses and in nothing else.” (Lectures on Faith, pp. 63–67.) ) Exactly. And How did Jesus obtain this Glory, authority, majesty, power and dominion? I would equate Salvation in this context with Eternal Life and Exaltation. Though there are different levels of exaltation. Or as Jacob put it, Jacobs Ladder (with 7 rungs, See the Orson Hyde Diagram). Which Joseph quoted on occasion. These are the Powers of Heaven. Notice D&C 93: We won't either. It may be promised upon us in the hereafter, but we still must remain faithful for Joseph said we will have a great work even beyond the grave to obtain our exaltation. As for the descent/ascent concept let me look into it, I have never put it into words myself. I know Avraham Gileadi talks about it a lot. Its shown in the book of Mormon over and over. The Ascension of Isaiah (an apocrpha text) talks about it too a bit. I may do this in a new thread. Maybe I can just find where Avraham explains it. I am lazy. I think I have deviated from the OP. I am merely trying to define what is the difference between a Saved being, and degrees of a saved being. For we cannot arrive there in an instant. All things in degrees.

Seems the amount of excommunications/people leaving the church have grown exponentially the last year or two. Two more: John Dehlin (Creator of the CES Letter, which discounts the origins of the restoration) Kate Kelly (Founder of Ordain the Women) http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/12/us/two-activists-within-mormon-church-threatened-with-excommunication.html?src=twr&_r=3