a-train

While daily scripture study is the backbone of spiritual understanding, what we see personally is our life's testimony. My mother had an abusive father who left her family when she was very young. Her mother quickly remarried a man who was secretly a transvestite and more abuse ensued. Horrible and disgusting abuses were heaped to my mother and her siblings from both parents throughout their childhood and adolescence. As a pre-teen the LDS missionaries baptized her family, but abuses went on behind closed doors. Still in her teens, my mother graduated High School early and moved in with the family of the Relief Society President in her Ward. At a Church activity she met my father, a recent convert, who she married at the age of eighteen. When nineteen, she bore myself, at twenty years of age she had my sister, and then, when she was twenty five, she had another girl. Things were looking their best for my mom. I was six and had two younger sisters and a worthy priesthood baring father with a successful business in rare coins and jewelry. My mother's rough beginnings were finally over and you would think her life would then be happily ever after. Until, one night thieves murdered my father at his business making my mother a widow with three children, one an infant, and no higher education at the age of twenty five. Although the criminal went free, he was later convicted of another murder and now resides in a Texas prison. My mother worked what small jobs she could get and never found a suitable husband willing to provide for her and her children. We were living in poverty as my mother waited tables and had taxes withheld from her check which could be attributed to the garaunteed housing, meals, health care, cable television, and other freely provided eminities afforded her husbands killer in prison where he worked no job at all. I got my first health insurance at the age of twenty five when I personally bought it myself. My mother's testimony of the Church and her faith in the LORD was unshaken through all of this. She remained valiant and raised her children in the gospel and in the Church until I was about seventeen. Then, she quit reading her scriptures. Her prayers dropped off and eventually ceased. Church callings became burdensome. The tithing she'd paid through all these years of trial started to bother her. She'd decided she had paid enough and that her work as a single mother should afford her a break, or a time to do things for herself. She fell away. I still grieve and pray she will return. But I take courage and stand with boldness in the memory of my mother who was so valiant and brave, who at an age younger than I am now bore a greater burden than I will probably ever see. And I understand now that only when we seperate ourselves from the Holy Ghost will our heart be hardened. When we read not the scriptures and cease praying we partake no more of the Spirit. This is when the Evil One comes. He comes not in disease, he is not there in death, he has no power in our trials. But I have learned this one great lesson, this one great truth: that only when we harden our heart we are delivered over to the buffetings of Satan. (D&C 82:21) Therefore 'let your hearts be full, drawn out in prayer unto him continually for your welfare, and also for the welfare of those who are around you.' (Alma 34:27) GOD BLESS -a-train

Crimson, The concept of the deterioration of beings in consequence of sin sounds a little like something I remember out of Temple and Cosmos. Now you served a mission and you are in your twenties right? Maybe you are just barely to young, but do you remember Boyd K. Packer's Conference talk on the Atonement from which a seminary video was made? I think it was called The Mediator. I saw it in seminary around 1993 or so. The video showed a young man in ancient times who went into a large debt and couldn't pay it. The Saviour ends up paying the debt for him at the end. Do you know of this video? More importantly, do you know of the talk I upon which it was based? Anyone else? -a-train

The Great Jehovah told Israel: 'I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.' (Exodus 20:2-3) He also said that 'the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible' (Deut. 10:17) So who are the gods over which our LORD is God? The sectarians say He is the only god and all the others referred to in the scriptures are the worldly idols of stone and gold or imagination. Does it bare any reason that He is a God of dumb idols? Is He surrounded in heaven by wooden statues bowing before Him? Did the prophets teach us so? Jesus taught saying: 'have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.' (Matt 22:31-32) Jesus refering to the eighty second psalm inquired of them that accused Him of blasphemy: 'Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?' (John 10:34-36) Many philosphers have strained at this idea and interpret the psalm differently than Jesus. But, how can He be a God of gods and say unto them to whom the word of God came 'ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High' (Psalm 82:6) if He have no offspring over which to reign? The philosophers deny our holy and heavenly heritage attempting to wrest the psalmist's words, but Peter affirmed: 'your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.' (Acts 17:28-29) Indeed the commandment saying 'Thou shalt have no other gods before me' was seperate from and came before the second commandment which outlawed the worship of graven images (Exodus 20:4-5). If the two are to be joined as one commandment, then there are only nine. Paul seemed to have learned the same doctrine saying to the converted: 'The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.' (Rom. 8:16-17) Now as heirs of God what do we inherit? Of course our youth can quickly remember that the meek shall inherit the earth (Matt. 5:5). Jesus also told John: 'To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.' (Rev. 3:21) Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon saw the vision of those 'who overcome by faith' saying: 'Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God— Wherefore, all things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s. And they shall overcome all things.' (D&C 76:53-60) They also saw that they 'who are sanctified before [God's] throne'...'worship him forever and ever.' (D&C 76:21) John heard the LORD say: 'I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.' (Rev. 21:6-7) And John said of the servants of God at the end of the world: 'they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.' (Rev 22:4-5) Indeed LDS believe the scriptures which teach that we are gods and children of the Most High and we are to worship the God of gods with all of our soul, mind, and strength. And if we are true and faithful we will inherit all things and reign with Him in His throne, worshipping the Father and the Lamb forever and ever. Man, that was longer than I intended, but the scriptures are just so full of information on this subject; there are more passages I won't mention. This should suffice for now. I hope this gives some verses to pray over on this subject. Love your question. Thanks. GOD BLESS -a-train

You know, Satan adopted a plan back in the old days as to how to lead the children of men astray. It's a simple plan. He gives man interpretations of the words of prophets past that contradict the current prophets so that men will contradict them also. It mattered not that men believed that Adam and Enoch were prophets when the rising waters surrounded Noah. It mattered not how much Aaron's sons believed in Noah and Enoch when they were burned at the Tabernacle for having rejected the commandments of God through Moses. It mattered not that Zedekiah accepted Moses and Noah as prophets when he would not listen to Jeremiah and Lehi as the Babylonians approached. It mattered not that the Jews accepted Jeremiah and Isaiah when they crucified the Saviour. It matters not that men believe Paul and Peter were prophets now that they reject the restored Gospel. And it matters not that men believe in the Restoration through Joseph Smith if they quarrel against our living prophets today. This will never change. Satan is bound, determined, and lies in wait to deceive. There is only a few he wants you to reject, they are only the modern day servants of God. Search the scriptures and you will see that all the prophets who are so greatly reveared were rejected by their own people for the LORD said it thus: 'A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.' (Matt 13:57) So Satan goes on through the ages giving men interpretations of the ancient prophets that contradict the present ones, for he knows this one great secret, he knows that the LORD has said to all his prophets throughout all time: 'What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.' (D&C 1:38) GOD BLESS -a-train

LDS believe the often quoted statement by Paul: 'For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.' (Romans 6:23) Without much deeper definition of sin itself, let it suffice to consider all actions in transgression of the laws of God as such. We believe that the salvation through the atonement of Jesus the Messiah, which is the gift of God, is infinite, eternal, and not only is potent to save man from death, but sin itself also. For 'ye cannot be saved in your sins' (Alma 11:37), but we believe in salvation from sin. As you may know, we believe in The Book of Mormon which is a record of an ancient American people who had prophets of the God of Israel among them. Alma and Amulek were two such prophets who lived around 70 to 80 B.C. In The Book of Mormon in the eleventh through the thirteenth chapters of the Book of Alma, Alma and Amulek engage in a public discussion with one Zeezrom, a cunning lawyer who denied the Messiah and even offered to pay the prophets to deny the existance of any Supreme Being. (Alma 11:2) In the discussion that followed sin and death were defined by the prophets in a plain and informative manner. While I would say that you should read these three chapters (which aren't that long), I will summarize some key points of interest. First, there are two deaths. The first death is the physical, temporal death which is ever familiar to all of mankind as the dissolution of our mortal body. The second death is a spiritual death, which is the seperation of us from God, or death 'as to things pertaining unto righteousness.' (Alma 12:16) We believe that the work of Christ as the Propitiator of our sins is designed to bring mankind, who is subject to both physical death and seperation from God through sin, back to a oneness with God, therefore this work is called the At-one-ment of Jesus Christ. The Atonement is designed to save us from such separation, making us at one with God. The power of Christ's resurrection is universal as stated by Amulek: 'this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.' (Alma 11:44) John the Revelator saw both the resurrection and the judgement saying: 'I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.' (Rev. 20:12) LDS look forward to the literal resurrection of all mankind regardless of the belief or lack thereof on the part of individuals to be so raised. But as John continued: 'And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.' (Rev. 20:14-15) As symbolized by a 'lake of fire', the eternal separation from God issued to those 'not found written in the book of life' is the Second Death. For as Alma said: 'God did call on men, in the name of his Son, (this being the plan of redemption which was laid) saying: If ye will repent and harden not your hearts, then will I have mercy upon you, through mine Only Begotten Son; Therefore, whosoever repenteth, and hardeneth not his heart, he shall have claim on mercy through mine Only Begotten Son, unto a remission of his sins; and these shall enter into my rest. And whosoever will harden his heart and will do iniquity, behold, I swear in my wrath that he shall not enter into my rest.' (Alma 12:33-35) 'We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.' and 'that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.' (Articles of Faith 3 and 4) The question you have raised has devoted to it many volumes. I hope this is a little start in the right direction. -a-train

It is here in the telestial world that Christ is farthest from the throne of God. 'Tele' is a prefix denoting distant, remote, or far away. In otherwords, Christ came here to the telestial world to be sacrificed as was indicated by the killing of beasts having been done in the outer court anciently. Sorry for any ambiguity. -a-train

The ancient Israelites were commanded to 'offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD. And he shall put his hand upon the head of the burnt offering; and it shall be accepted for him to make atonement for him. And he shall kill the bullock before the LORD: and the priests, Aaron’s sons, shall bring the blood, and sprinkle the blood round about upon the altar that is by the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.' (Levi. 1:3-5) In all cases the blood was spilled and the flesh was seperately burned upon the altar. However, in the instance of the sin offering an additional unique facet is presented in the sacrifice. For 'the priest that offereth it for sin shall eat it: in the holy place shall it be eaten, in the court of the tabernacle of the congregation' (Levi. 6:26) and 'All the males among the priests shall eat thereof: it is most holy' (Levi 6:29) Through the death of the sacrificial animal, life was given to the priests who in turn bore the iniquity of Israel in the temple. The blood (which was the life of the sacrifice) was spilled outside the temple by the sinner (not the priest), away from God's throne in the outer court which refers to the telestial or that which is farthest from God's presence. And although it was not partaken of, it was necessarily spilled in order to obtain the flesh. On the Day of Atonement, the priests performed the great sacrifices that atoned for all Israel, which also took off from the priests the burden of the sins which they bore all year. In Leviticus 16 we learn of this sacrifice wherein 'two goats' are presented 'before the LORD at the door of the tabernacle'. Lots were cast by the priest, the goat upon which fell the lot of the LORD was then sacrificed and it's blood carried by the high priest to the throne of God to be sprinkled upon the mercy seat. The Saviour, our Great High Priest shed His own blood from every pore and took upon Himself the sins of all the world in the garden at Gethsemane. It is here that He was farthest from the throne of God in suffering spiritual separation from God in a manner unfathomable to our finite perceptability here in this telestial world. He suffered there in spirit the ends of the law of God and on the following day he suffered in the flesh the ends of the laws of man. As the people chose Barabbas (which means 'Son of the Father') as the benefactor of their clemency, Christ remained to be crucified by sinners, His flesh being broken, but as was forbidden in the ancient sacrifices and marked by John 'a bone of him [was] not broken' (John 19:36) We, today, take the broken bread in rememberance of the sacrifice of His body and then the water by which we remember His blood. Through this we are reminded of both His physical and spiritual sacrifice; and we take into us the saving power of the new covenant which is both spiritual and physical being cleansed from within rather than taking into us transgression under the old carnal law that it may be hidden from without. As it is written: 'the first shall be last, and the last shall be first', even so the ancient sacrifices pointed forward to Christ in rich symbolism and our ordinances today point back at Him in the same manner. I hope this will give you a little start, for it is only a tiny semblance of what is contained in the ordinances we so often perform. GOD BLESS -a-train

You know, I have heard some put forth Deuteronomy 18:22 as a means to perceive a 'false prophet'. The LORD says: 'When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.' I can see no explicit reference to any 'false' prophet in this. Moreover, the LORD here has not given the presumptuous statement of a prophet as any revelation that he be not of God, but the question He has resolved is asked: 'How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?' (Deut 18:21) and NOT 'How shall we know the false prophet whom the LORD hath not sent?' His answer in verse 22, doesn't abnegate any prophet's calling in the first instance of human error, but indemnifies the people from any falling away due to the error of the LORD's anointed servants. The Bible in this instance does say something about the prophets. It says the LORD told Israel that we are not to fear the speculative words of the prophet, however He said 'whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.' (verse 19) In short, the Bible teaches that we are required to follow the word of God as delivered by His prophets, and we are not to fear any unfounded speculation on the part of the oracle. Having said this, I should say that failing to follow the words of the LORD through His prophet is far more dangerous than sharing any incorrect presumption with this man whom we are instructed not to fear, for we fear not men but fear God. We should therefore look long and hard to verify the prophet's teachings and move very slow to correct them. -a-train

LT, With a straight face, totally serious, my advice is that I would look into leaving that union situation and get into something better. You know your situation best, pray and make good decisions. But I want to remind you of the God given powers and abilities you possess. You might be much more capable than your current occupation and if it isn't providing you and yours with necessary accomodations then don't sink into a mindset that holds you captive in an employment or unemployment status that is insufficient for your needs. Even in this turbulant and slanted system we reside, the LORD is still ever-able to provide for the saints and bring about the further building of Zion. The only power the Devil has to prevent us from our work is the fear that the LORD will not provide for us and the disrememberance that all things are given to us freely from God. We need not believe the lie that: 'there is no free lunch'. It is all free, we are all beggars. And though the rich may glut themselves in greed and deny the hand of God in all things, God will pour out blessings on the righteous who acknowledge the origin of all over which they are stewards. Fear not to place your temporal salvation in the hands of God and to stand at the helm of your stewardship in exchanging your talents with the money changers to bring about an increase for the Master. GOD SPEED, GOD BLESS -a-train

We are just a wicked bunch here in the show-me state. -a-train

2 Nephi 4:34: 'I will not put my trust in the arm of flesh; for I know that cursed is he that putteth his trust in the arm of flesh. Yea, cursed is he that putteth his trust in man or maketh flesh his arm.' -a-train

I'll gladly accept their replacement!!!!! I have a lot of friendly hispanic families that shop in my store that struggle with English. They are strong families with good values and seem to have true integrity and honor what little they have. Their work ethic is stronger than the average American. The kids are respectful and courteous and the parents make great sacrifices to provide for them. Meanwhile countless locals come through with bratty attitudes and slap their Amex on the counter that doesn't display the same last name as the child, complaining about every little thing they can think of. Now I understand that there are good and bad people from every group, but I agree that if our righteousness cannot match that of the immigrants to this nation, we who have much and therefore possess the greater requirement will, like the slothful servant we have heard of, lose even that which we have. Good comment Fiannan. GOD BLESS US! -a-train

We are about 2-3 hours from the nearest temple. We just go. Simple. Just go. Leave the kids with family, friend, or babysitter and do it to it. I pray I will live to see the day that there is one here in the REAL ZION. -a-train

Approximately 53% of my income over the last two years has gone to taxes. Didn't we fight a war over less taxes? It is staggering to think that after tithing I actually take home around 37% of my income. It is a testament to the LORD's bounty that when we render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar's and unto God that which is God's he still makes possible that we have sufficient for our needs. I think that reducing the tax structure to business entities alone would make the taxation process exponentially more effecient. It bares no reason that we spend so much time, effort, and resource to see to it that an annual return is filed for every last person in the country making minmum wage or higher. Our current arrangement also creates a more frequent tendency on the part of the average citizen to become involved in evasion in one form or another which is currently commonplace throughout every bracket. I would definitely approve a move toward a consolidation of excise taxes or others associated with business entities in order to extricate the people from the current burden of personal income tax. -a-train

Luke, I am right here with you in your perception that our latter-day Apostles 'were absolutely correct, just very misunderstood.' I am further sometimes let down when I see members who will quickly write off what purports to be a concept attributed to the brethren as human error with little or no effort to determine the validity and/or meaning and implication of their statements. This tendency is known to the antis as a powerful tool in cornering us in our own minds. It is when we perceive our own interpretation and knowledge to be greater than the LORD's anointed servants that we begin to replace their wisdom and counsel with our own. and Satan and his click are very aware of this. I can say that in every instance that I have searched out the statements taken out of context by these antis I have found them to be uplifting and in agreeance with the scriptures and the doctrines of the Church and the interpretation applied by the deceivers was completely erroneous at best. Keep it up. GOD BLESS -a-train

Months that contain a Friday the 13th began with the 1st on the 1st day of the week, Sunday. That is the true essence of Friday the 13th. That.... ...and we are supposed to wear old-school hockey goalie masks and roll with machetes. I got mine right here ready to wear to work. What concerns me and should concern you even more is that my mother is a descendant from the Vorhees family, her maiden name is Voris. We don't know of any Jasons in the family, but if we find one I'll let you know. Gotta go... ...can't... ...control it... ...any... ...longer... ..AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!!!!!! -a-train

Taxes? What is that? -a-train

Oh, this is sick! Love it! -a-train

Mormon Docrine by Bruce R. McConkie in a nutshell says that 'marriage is ordained of God...that the earth might answer the end of its creation; And that it might be filled with the measure of man, according to his creation before the world was made.' (D&C 49:15-17) I like the fact that this verse points out that a certain measure of created spirits are appointed to be brought to this earth through the powers of procreation. McConkie also quotes Brigham Young and Joseph F. Smith who don't specifically ban the use of contraception, medical or otherwise. Joseph F. Smith does, however, speak against the 'sentiment or...feeling among any members of the Church to curtail the birth of their children.' (Mormon Doctrine p 86) My personal feeling and interpretation of McConkie's entry on the subject is that while it contains no certain abjuration of contraceptive hormone medications, it does upbraid the self-centered procrastination or outright avoidance of procreation which is currently a trend in far more staggering numbers than in the time of McConkie or the Elders he quoted. I personally don't like the moods I've noticed in my wife while enduring the various side-defects of her medications and hope to see her in a healthy situation devoid of foreign chemicals, albeit they are prescribed by medical professionals. -a-train

The faith vs. works question is is another semantic mess. The arguments go like this: 'If we need to do anything at all to be saved, then it is NOT free, it is not a gift, it is not of grace.' The other says: 'But even if belief alone makes one worthy for grace, doesn't that mean we must do something to get it?' And so the discussion goes. I would propose the example of the youngster receiving a first vehicle from Mom & Dad: Loving parents want to provide their growing child with the exciting freedom and ability to drive. The availability of such transportation would take their offspring to a new level of personal development and productivity. They offer the child every provision in preparation for the new responsibility, such as Driver's Education, and personal lessons. The child is only given this at an appropriate age, and only if the child demonstrates the skills, mindset, and responsiblity required by the unforgiving realities of motoring. All of this is thought and effort on the part of the parents is for the sole purpose of protecting and providing for the minor. All arangements and preparations are provided by them. Additionally, every effort on the part of the youngster is only in personal preparation for responsibilities greater than any currently possessed, for the parents are providing the vehicle, tax, and registration also. I would ask: Will the efforts made by the child purchase the vehicle? Does a certificate from the Drivers Ed Class stand as payment for the car? Do natural resources spontaneously provide a car to anyone achieving a certain number of years? The same principles can be applied to our Heavenly Father who has a tremendous gift prepared for His children that will afford far greater freedom and productivity than a mere automobile. Such a fantastic gift requires far greater responsibility and preparation. The whole of this mortal life is filled with provisions from the LORD that have no purpose other than to prepare us for that gift. Every capacity we possess has been given freely from the LORD and is for the purposes of preparation for the great gift. All of our efforts and successes in making ourselves ready are smiled upon and encouraged by a Parent ever ready to bestow this wonderful present as soon as we are able to receive it, but not a single act on our part will actually purchase the gift. It is free. The 'works' we do here do not purchase salvation, they only prepare us for the gift of grace and the accompanying responsibilities. Our ability to act itself is a free gift from God. A better analogy is the 'Parable of The Talents'. We are not here to pay for our salvation, but to prepare to be 'made ruler over many things'. GOD BLESS -a-train

A word about the LDS use of the terms 'Elohim' and 'Jehovah': It should be noted that it is NOT believed by the LDS that 'Elohim' is the heavenly name of the Father. Nor is it understood by us that Christ, when He stood in Heaven before the world was, was known by the name 'Jehovah'. These are earthly terms for our use here in mortality. They are furthermore used by us in modern times to designate the Father or Son respectively only for lack of better terms. Talmage said: 'Elohim, as understood and used in the restored Church of Jesus Christ, is the name-title of God the Eternal Father, whose firstborn Son in the spirit is Jehovah-the Only Begotten in the flesh, Jesus Christ.' (Jesus The Christ p.35) The term 'Elohim' in the text of the Old Testament is NOT therefore interpreted by LDS to signify the Father in the same manner as mentioned above. Thus the 'Elohim' in Genesis 6:4 (and thousands of other places in the Old Testament) is NOT an explicit reference to the Father. About Deuteronomy 6:4: A transliteration of the hebrew is this: Shema Yisrael Adonai eloheinu Adonai ehad. Hear O Israel, Jehovah is our God, Jehovah is One. I think keeping the 'one' at the end of the verse where it started in the first place is a little more coherant and brings out the meaning more clearly. Hopefully this will help to avoid confusion and ambiguity. -a-train

I've said it many times, but I'll say it again. The opposition we endure as LDS is our reminder to REPENT! What happened when the house of Israel got prideful and lazy? WATCH OUT, HERE COME THE [insert gentile invaders here]!!!!! When the Nephites lost sight of the LORD what happened? WATCH OUT, HERE COME THE LAMANITES!!!! Now is this because God's love is conditional and He quits looking out for us when we forget Him? NO!!!! 'For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?' (Heb 12:6-9) I get burned in the heart on the last line every time. I also like dropping that verse in Sunday School to watch the jaws drop on the B word in there. God Bless -a-train

LDS do not consider nor assign the 'weight' of a particular scripture. We believe that 'All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.' (2 Tim 3:16-17) We therefore are willing to accept precepts taught in the scriptures regardless of the number of verses dedicated to the subject small or great. We also do not pit various authorities against one another. For example, we do not take Paul's words over Peter's or Joseph Smith's over Moses' etc. We also therefore believe that all verses throughout the Standard Works coherantly agree with one another and if they appear to conflict, then our perception or interpretation is what needs fixing, not the Scriptures. As I stated before, it is the sense of the Oneness of Diety that is being misunderstood here. To the LDS, a scripture that says that the 'day and [the] hour [of Christ's 2nd Coming] knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father' (Mark 13:32) does not conflict with the verse that says: 'I and my Father are one." (John 10:30) If John 10:30 means that Christ IS His Father, then this would seem to contradict Mark 13:32, or it would mean that the Saviour can somehow simultaneously know something and not know it. Another explanation would be that the oneness described in John 10:30 is different from saying the Father and the Son are the same Being. It is the latter that we subscribe to and have scriptural authority of. Did you know that the word 'God' throughout the Old Testament is a plural term? Eloah which means great one, god, or magistrate is ended with the plural suffix im. In every case, im signifies plurality, such as one cherub, two cherubim. Therefore the literal translation of Elohim which is in Genesis 1:1 is Great Ones. The verse literally says: 'In the beginning Great Ones created the heaven and the earth.' Look up Elohim, google it, whatever. Were you aware that the exact same term 'Elohim' is used in Exodus 20:3 when it says 'Thou shalt have no other gods before me.'? It is also the same term used in Gen. 3:5 when Satan says: 'and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil'. This really strikes a cord of reason when you read Genesis 1:26 which says: 'And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:'. The LORD further said concerning Adam after the partaking of the fruit: 'Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:' (Gen 3:22) So why does our translation have a singular 'God' in only the instances that the Hebrew presented the plural 'Elohim' in reference to the God of Israel? Simply because the singularization of God occured centuries before the first English translation, but in Moses' day it was commonplace to refer to the God of Israel as 'Gods'. English translators followed existing traditions and used context to determine if the Elohim spoken of was the Supreme Being or otherwise and affixed singularity or plurality accordingly, even though the original text did not do so. This was only to appease the already universally believed doctrine of the Trinity and the ardent monotheistic view associate therewith. Is it possible that Satan tempted Eve with the desire to become like the true and living God and not just any god? hmmm... This is getting too lengthy, but also consider Christ's seperate will from His Father manifested in His prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane wherein He submitted His will to the Father saying: 'nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.' (Luke 22:42) There is actually more, but this should be a long enough post for now. Suffice it to say, that LDS take into account the plurality of the term Elohim throughout the entire content of the scriptures. You should understand that LDS taking this into account see the word 'Gods' throughout the Standard Works even though it is printed 'God'. This is no different from understanding what is signified by LORD in all capital letters throughout the text also. Another thing to remember is milk before meat (Heb 5:13), this is heavy stuff for most people. It all makes their head spin, so we don't push it to hard. We allow the LORD to teach in His manner (Isaiah 28:10) Hope this sheds some light on the subject. God Bless -a-train

Ditch that scandalous loose woman quick! Run while you are still fresh out of the baptismal font! I mean RUN fella! RUN!!! She sounds like she is looking for Trouble with a CAPITAL T! I am CERTAIN there are some nice honeys who are in a better position for you to be dating than this one with all the baggage. DUMP this @#$#$# and never look back. If she is not ready for you, PEACE! You don't have a lifetime to waste waiting on some broad to figure out her marital status. Go out and play the field while the game is on! Don't get hung up on the first play. GOD BLESS YA SON! -a-train

Jesus prayed for His disciples saying: 'Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.' (John 17:11) LDS believe and affirm the Oneness of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and The Holy Ghost as Maureen stated above. It is only the sense of the Godhead's Oneness that differs from the Nicean Creed. It is only the manner in which They are One that those devoted to such creeds find unorthodox in us LDS. I personally find the LDS interpretation much more coherant with John 17:11. Will the Apostles coalesce into a twelvity, rivalling even the Trinity in complexity? Will Peter lose his will and mind to James or James' to John? How will the disciples be one as the Father and Son? I presume the Trinitarians will write the saying off to only a glance of similarity. They will say that Jesus speach is purely figurative. My question is this: How do you know that His saying: 'I and my Father are one' (John 10:30) wasn't purely figurative also? I think this demonstrates the need for modern revelation. -a-train