sgallan

I guess this board is in "edit and moderate everything" mode. I guess there were too many players and opinions. Something the long time regulars have always freaked out about. They rather like a slow board with the regular "dance like" posts and posters. Heck even a TBM was chased off in Syble. I don't get it, as the site even advertises me with spam like e-mails from time to time. Why? If they are not really interested? I never stay away for always.... but I had become a regular poster again, and that hadn't happened here in awhile. I actually liked the place. Anyhow, it was an interesting board for awhile, but if I spend time on serious and heartfelt posts, that in the case I am thinking about were not offensive in any way I can think of, and they are taken down, then there is no point in posting or staying. I guess Unorthodox was right. So for those of you who know me, and are interested in keeping up...... email me, I am real good about answering. Take care.

Sgallan, the violence of the protests is getting worse. I would think you of all people would want to keep up on what is going on. You were correct and it's even worse today. Thanks for clarifying.

I mostly don't take what they say all that seriously anymore. They do kind of give the faith a bad name. It almost makes you wonder if they are really LDS, or are actually anti's playing a sort of reverse game. You is a blaming statement; it is accusatory So? And in this case, your statement is totally unfounded. No it's not.

I have heard the word arragance used here before, but I don't think even that covers this womans attitude. Geeze somebody please flush the pot, it really is getting to stink where this woman is coming from!! You and the Ari's would get bored. You thrive on contention.

I noticed you seem to hang on every word and then answer to only that word. How about the whole idea or paragraph? How about answering my questions.....

Of course everyone knows that any statement made can be proven wrong or right if looked at in the wrong or right light. And vice-versa. ;-)

I'm sorry. What is the point of the thread? This stuff has been all over the place.

Is there no possible process that can be trusted to generate laws we can live with, even if we don't like them all that much. I tend to think most modern socities do this now. It's not often pretty.... because of the differences. But it seems to work.

Let's go back to wisdom, ya'll. Wisdom of God is better than the cunningness of man. There is so much to learn in the scriptures, really and truly, especially about wisdom. I think the best example of wisdom is from Christ. What do you think makes a person wise? Too me the wisdom of man, and the wisdom of any number of gods, are the same thing. I understand you see it differently.

I don't care how many people accept it or say that I should just turn a blind eye. What is wrong is wrong, and that's all there is to it. And to bring it back around to what you commented on originally..... those people in Islam think pretty much the same about some of the things women do, and therefore think, as commanded by god, they are justified in beating their women. And that you don't agree.... well they would just say.... "I don't care how many people accept it or say that I should just turn a blind eye. What is wrong is wrong, and that's all there is to it." You are just like they are it would appear....

Essence? Homosexuality is not part of anyone's essense. We are not born with it and it is not natural. It is Satan whispering into our ears. It is the world telling us that we have to be tolerant of every single thing that God has forbidden. Prove it (and I realize I cannot scientifically prove it otherwise). If you cannot, do you understand why I might consider you a religious based bigot when it comes to homosexuality? Furthermore understand why I would not want my daughter raised in an atmosphere that leads to the sort of beliefs you have, especially considering that her favorite Uncle is gay? She has been raised from birth understanding that people who are gay are just people living their lives like tha rest of us. With a (short) lifetime of experiences to back it up. You are a reason why this is a secular household. You can thenk less of me for my beliefs if you'd like. But I feel justified in protecting my child from your beliefs because of your religious based beliefs..... espcecially since it is a family thing. FWIW, your sort of religious based bigotry is about a generation away from being about as relavent as racism was in the sixties. Think not? Heck just 25 years ago even the concept of gay marriage would have been considered ludricrous. And coming out of the closet could be career suicide in many career paths. Deadly in some areas. Now a days.... save for some religious cultures..... it is not nearly the issue... and gay marraige is (slowly) becoming a reality.

Please do not judge all LDS by Ari and Syble. Judge LDS by Heather, LaurelTree, Ray, BenRaines instead. I don't. Most LDS I am friends with are very cool. I could see Ray turning to the 'dark side', but the rest are way cool. The posters mentioned remind me of the LDS snowbirds we have come to Parker. They are what scared my daughter (literally) at some point. And chased my wife away from the religion. A little story about the kid..... they really did scare her somehow. About 9 months ago a couple of missionaries came by. I am always polite and kind to those kids. Gave them some food and water. Turned off the TV. Stuff like that.... as those are the rules. Just being polite. I told them I was non-religious, in a firm way, and they followed the rules and didn't attempt to debate me. Good kids. I explained in general terms about my wifes demons. But somehow my daughter had an attitude about them.... "why are they here dad?" It suprised me because I sure have nothing against the LDS in this area. I think it was something when my wife took her to church a couple of years ago. And a general memory of hers. Anyhow, I put out that little fire by explaining the Missionaries were sharing something very special to them.... their faith. And what they were doing was an extraordinary show of that faith. That settled the situation down.

I find it to be a proven fact of life. Hey, if it works for you..... then it does. And if it helps you get through life in a good way - as much as I can't comprehend it - then I would even suggest you keep this attitude.

You have not proven you are living high enough on the ladder to be continually throwing out these kinds of nasties. I didn't consider it nasty.... just a difference of perspective. But in your perspective you considered it nasty. Oh well, I guess that is how fueds and wars get started. Amazing how little board discussions can be a microcasm of the differences which are also true on a macro scale. If only they really understood this comment!! It is brilliantly uplifting and on track! I noticed you used the word "they". Is your worldview pretty much based on a "us versus them" perspective? Is this another value from your faith? Or just you? Do you understand why I might say you are - in that way - much like those we are at war with? Except that you have enemies all around you as well. Do you consider this a constructive way to live?

And your comment about this thread turning into a slamfest? You are slamming just as well as anyone on this board. Perhaps. Your panties seem to be in a bunch. What exactly set you off? Or do you just like to fight? Do you consider this a value of your faith?

What exact phrase in this post ignited your claim that the poster you are responding to was worthy of your statement about superiority? I'll answer the poster in question..... but not you. And where in her post did you get the premis for arragance. I saw none of this. Off course you didn't. You are a partisan.

I don't know what pool you are drawing your opinions from, but they are warped. The christian people are what keeps this world spinning straight. Turn it over to the non-believers and it wouldn't be too long before you would have New Orleans kinds of crime stats all over the place. Hmmm...... interesting comment. Do you consider this kind of marginalization and judgementalism a value of your faith? Are you able to understand why I might not want to inorporate your sort of religious based bigotry into my value system?

So you're saying that since Islam is growing faster than Christianity it's therefore the only correct religion? That makes absolutely no sense. Oranges ripen faster than bananas, so does that make oranges automatically better? Indeed. I was being ironic. When replying to the poster in question, that poster was suggesting a conservative Christian version of 'black/white' version of what is right or wrong. I was just doing a little example of another even more conservative version, with a strongly faith based religion. Okay, so if you were beaten every time you broke a rule or made a mistake, I guess that since you think this is the best for everyone, then you wouldn't harbor any feelings of bitterness or resentment to those that hurt you. Mindless beatings don't teach people to obey the rules because it's right, it only teaches people to obey the rules because if they don't, they'll receive pain. Hence they are not conforming to the rule, they are conforming to the person delivering the pain, the oppressor. I agree. It is a pretty good argument against those who would attempt to hurt homosexuals in a societal way. Those hurts are every bit as bad as the physical ones. Often worse because they insult the very essense of a person.

My brain is too dead without the gospel! Lol, maybe I'm just a bit thick-headed. Not at all. You do what works for you. And in a very nice and kind way. We are all just different is all. :)

We are not the offspring of God--we are his creation. In a sense, we're more akin to the painting an artist produces. God creates us with the freedom to choose good vs. evil. Those who choose good, he redeems. Those who choose evil, he punishes. There's an almost Darwinian justice to it. And this is why I consider such a posited being as evil. It's a numbers game..... billions of people eternally tortured for eternity. Check out this number...... 1,000,000,000,000,000 years. Eternity is longer. I wouldn't allow the torture of even the worse persons of humanity for that time. Yet because this posited god, is god, somehow the ultimate in evil is okay. I'm reading between the lines here, but my sense is that you were "testing the waters," and ultimately found nonbelief more rationale. So while you "did belief" for a season, unless you fully embraced it, I'm not sure you have a true comparison. Yes, I have heard this many times. It is along the lines of.... since you didn't stay a believer you never must have really been a believer to begin with. It is the perfect rationale because it is perfectly circular reasoning. Irregardless, my basic premise is that if you measure goodness by good deeds and practical kindness, then the irreligious actually have more time to be good. However, if goodness includes worshipping God and leading others to worship, then my argument that belief will make you better than you are, stands. My take isn't so black and white as that. One of the persons I respect the most runs a evangelical church in the inner city in Kansas. His religion is his life. And the stuff he lives with..... well it's a lot like what you see in the prisons. A guy he's tried to help for years, took into his house, and all of that.... recently died of an OD. Yet as far as works away from his 'job', he also far exceeds me. It works both ways with him. My dad, the non-believer.... same thing. His good works have exceeded mine despite time constraints he's had. And I am sure we both know of believers, and non-believers, who do mostly nothing.... or worse. My point is; the world, and the people in it, are too diverse to make such either/or claims with regards to worship and what is better, or worse. "Everybody has a God-shaped emptiness in them," or something to that effect. There are many ways to numb such emptiness--especially if you are not sure what it is. This is a faith thing which isn't part of my reality.

We don't have to support "cradle to grave socialism" to be considered pro-life. Cradle to adulthood would be nice. That on I am pretty sure most pro-lifers are also pro-death penalty.

Pro-life.... but only until it's born. 10 Commandments..... battle has been fought. It's a done deal now. God in the pledge..... fine with me.... I don't care. Christ in Academy prayers..... those idiots only have themselves to blame for that one by ostracizing, and sometimes being cruel, to those who did not believe as they did. The pharmacy thing...... the internet, and other technologies is going to make that a non-issue. Otherwise, it's the pharmacists business who and what he sells.

This is the very reason that The Ten Commandments should be displayed on courtroom walls, so as not to forget what society's laws are predicated upon [God's Law]...which are absolutes. I personally think if there is a god, then Islam is the correct religion (they are growing faster than Christianity) and the Wahabbi have the correct version of Islam, because their believers are among the most strident in the entire world, which means a female should wear a Burka and get beaten when breaking one of gods laws. God destroyed Soddom and Gomorrah, but the homosexual lobby reversed the laws against sodomy, thereby "legislating immorality". And as a person who believes differently I am rather pleased that homosexuals and homosexuality is out of the closet, with the longterm trend being towards acceptance. Hence the point of Travelers thread.

5. So, the only just punishment for scorning the eternal good is eternal bad. I look at it as billions of tortured people, tortured because a god made a bunch of flawed children. If I allowed the torture of my child I'd be looked at as about as evil as possible. Even if my child was a handful. But it is somehow okay if a (posited) god does it. You can rationalize it to meet your standards of logic. It couldn't work for me. I don't think that way. Without questioning the merit of your former faith--and I do not know what tha was--I'm wondering where you were. We you the true believer, ready and willing to missionize and evangelize? I did the LDS for awhile, but with them I just found another illogical god, another religion, and a culture which was so different from the way I was raised, that to say I didn't fit in was an understatement. My religious experience before that was as a young teen. Full out with absolutely no parental involvement. But between issues relating to science, and a scary posited god, that went away. There is is theory out there that says human brains are genetically wired to have higher power based beliefs. For whatever reason, in my family, a lot of us are not 'wired' to be believers.

I submit that we not feed the wolves in sheep's clothing. Are back handed insults also a manner in which you feed your wolf? Is this also something you consider as a value of your faith? I'm not looking for converts. To each their own. But many religious folks seem to suggest they have something 'better', for me, and perhaps my child/family. I don't see it any better..... just different.