sgallan

I think that depends on what kind of person you are, and where you live. Around here during my last real contacts with this religion they got a new SP who was very much a "clean shaven white shirt with boring tie no R rated movies" sort of guy. Now admittably I wasn't long for this religion what with my lifelong non-belief. But even for the believer in god, who is a convert, or a BIC member, who is less than conservative, and put them into that sort of atmosphere, then you don't have them for long, perhaps lose them altogether, or at the least, lose them for awhile. It happens all of the time. Now I personally don't care if a religion wants it's adherents to wear clown outfits, as long as it doesn't really effect me. But I do have a hard time imagining any possible god as being a lot like conservative western Americans.

Not sure of the importance or significance of it. Indeed. But there sure do seem to be an awful lot of adherents in this faith and take such off hand comments as gospel.

I will tell you my story. 3 years ago a General Authority was speaking at our Stake Conference, he was relating a story about when he was taking to President Hinkley and the Prophet made the comment "Wouldn't it be nice of all the Priesthood holders of the church were clean shaven?", The General Authority then said that if the Prophet of God thought it would be nice then we should think about honoring that. Well, you would not believe what happened....next Sunday every Priesthood holder in my ward shaved clean before church, including myself (I've had a mustache for 22 years) Some observations...... 1. So in order to be a member in good standing in your faith it is best to be "clean shaven"? 2. Are they going to change all of those pictures and paintings of Jesus to be clean shaven as well? 3. How about those Apostles and Prophets of the past; will they now be shown as clean shaven? 4. Is God really just like conservative western Americans? If so, would it be possible for you to consider that a person like me wouldn't want a year of that heaven, much less an eternity? Just some thoughts.....

Just out of respect. If you can get sunday wear, please wear it to church. And if they cannot..... are you going to ask them about it..... or just judge them? That is for the people who are already members, and have no tatoos. Modesty is important. What does modesty have to do with tattooo's? You mean, strongly encouraged you don't do... No, actually judging your reaction I'd say "bad" and "judgemental" fits rather well. Where do you live that the LDS church there doesn't focus on God and Jesus? Our church is ALL ABOUT being like them. You are focusing on a problem of the church, and ignoring everything about God and Jesus, because you are blinded with problems dressing modestly. I am hardly blinded, but you seem to be a lot like what you are complaining about. On the otherhand..... you must be pretty special being perfect and all. I bet you draw a LOT of converts what with you being better than everybody else. Jesus loves everyone equilly. We have never taught any different. He even loves the skanks... but that does not mean you should be one. I was just wondering when you became the all powerful person who was given the ability to define "skanks"? I also wonder if you understand you are considered worse than a skank in other religions? We don't judge people. Unless we call them "skanks". So I can go out and beak the law of chastity, but as long as I believe in him.. I am saved. I can kill a few people to!!!! Sure, why not? You seem to have no issues with being verbally cruel.... why not take the next step. No one has ever regretted keeping the commandments, and that is not as easy as, "Ya Jesus.. I know your there. Now I am saved. LDS does not believe salvation is that easy. From your example it would appear the LDS believe in calling those who are not like them.... "skanks". It isn't about what you can and can not do! It is about prophets and Jesus' restored church and being sealed to your family for all time and eturnity! If that isn't for you, I am very sorry to hear that. Desire - I am the parent of an eleven year old. If you are the barameter of what it means to be a LDS teen then I would lead my child away from what you hold as a faith. Because frankly, you are a pharasee in training. I couldn't imagine anybody living up to your obviously perfect standards. FWIW..... I am suspecting Desire is a poser.

What do you want to know? I'll answer pretty much anything in an honest way, and as I post as a real person I can back a lot of it up.

Why do you seem to be looking for a fight? What did I do that seems to have annoyed you so much?

Desire - Read what Maureen said.

You asked a question and I answered it. If you didn't want me to answer it, then why did you ask?

What does that have to do with anything. Can you expand? Just the usual thing of various conservative religions saying that society is so bad today..... when in comparison to the past..... when in reality the past also had it's own form of immorality. It was taken out of a rant by the poster I quoted more or less saying that pretty much everything that isn't part of his faith is bad, or of Satan, especially if that person was once part of his religion and then left that faith. Now if one doesn't consider racism and the like as a bad thing, then I guess the anology doesn't really work.

Look at accepted morality today and compare it from 40 years ago... You mean the accepted morality where sexism, and racism, was the norm and all except white males were pretty much second class citizens?

than the fact that he looked at the naked images. There are naked paintings, and sculptures, that are more real than any internet image, and are considered art. Classical art no less, that has stood the test of hundreds, even thousands, of years. There are those who consider swimsuit issues, that do not show any of the forbidden parts, as porn. And in some cases I would even agree with them. And yet there is full nudity, that show everything, that I wouldn't remotely consider porn. This begs the question of; what is porn? Anybody want to define it? PS - This was not meant to criticize the poster from whom I picked this selectively chosen tidbit in anyway whatsoever. I am just curious to the general responses.

Until you have walked in shoes of a wife of a porn addict, you have no idea what it is like to live through it. It goes way beyond "looking at naked women on the Internet" because of "natural urges". Please get specific. I live with the consequences of addiction pretty much everyday. The addiction wasn't porn, it was drugs, but I am a single dad raising a gifted child nonetheless. Looking at porn on the net from time to time is not an addiction. Even if it is kept from you. If the credit card bills come in with the charges being in the hundreds or thousands of dollars..... that is a sign of addiction. If your spouse is incapable of being close to you in a spousal/private manner, or requires things from you in that way that you have no interest in..... that could be sexual addiction. If your spouse gets fired from a job for using company computers to look at porn..... that is a clear sign. But if it is a 'game' of sorts, where you don't like it (even if your reasons are valid), but he does it anyhow, that is more of a marital problem, than an addictive problem. Those problems happen all of the time. The most common version being money. Which begs the question...... if the husband/wife spends more than the other spouse likes, and it leads to problems, or a divorce, is it a "money addiction" problem?

I have never needed proof. If I am an adherent of "Warren Jeffs", am I therefore justified in committing acts against a minor because I have faith in the divinity of the Prophet..... that I have faith in.

If you want to know about the Republican Party or Democratic Party, and you only went to those sites, what would you find? If you wanted to know about the Communism and only went to their site, what would you find? You can use the same analogies with any group no matter how mainstream, or how extreme, or how deviant. The answer is both. If you are intelligent human who is truly searching you'll get enough information to draw your own conclusions.

Dang, I am in complete agreement with Fin. Surely this has to be an "end times" sign.

I'd go from Athiest to one of the eastern meditative type faiths. For example; I admire the heck out of the Dala'i Lama. I'd really like to have some of the love and peace within himself, and towards others, that he has.

He created a hybrid antelope/Methodist in the lab and was intent on loosing it into the wild. Yeah, once that sort of thing gets started who knows where it will end up.....

Hey Ray - It's just constructive criticism. You are still a terrific poster, and person. And I say this even though we don't agree on a heck of a lot. :)

Diet Dew...

"How can I say what I want to more effectively?" Ray - This is exactly what I am trying to say. The Chaplain just said it more succient, and better, than I did. Ray, one sign of a mature communicator, an effective one, is that they realize it's not what they say that's important, but what others hear. When they say something that produces confusion or anger in their listeners, they adapt their delivery for no reason other than to improve understanding. Indeed. Kudo's to this gem as well. :)

I know what I am saying, and others have hinted at, puzzles you. That is pretty much where the problem lies. You just don't get it.

And btw, Scott, I only share what I know. If you really want to fight about it you can fight it out with God. I can do nothing to make you believe that I know the truth. And I would never use violence to try. You missed my point. Since I don't really care about the religion anyhow I think I'll just give up trying to make it. If you are content with the possibility you may be chasing off more people than you attract...... then you are.

What do you mean--personally--by separation of church and state? Pretty much how it is practiced right now. I have no problems with moments of silence, but actual verbal prayers is something else. I have no problem with Bible "clubs" as long as other "clubs" are allowed as well, and all are voluntary. I personally don't care that the word "god" is in the pledge, but I understand why some do. You want to teach about things like creationalism, then do it in an elective religion class. The courts have ruled on this several times. I think the Alabama Judge thing was a good ruling. That kind of thing. I tend not to make a big issue over most of these things (except education), but I understand why others do. We are not a theocracy. We're not even a true Democracy (those tend to stomp on the rights of the minorities). We are a Democratic Republic.

Yeah well, those with more fundamentalist type beliefs are generally upset with my beliefs as well, so we have something else in common! I've actually been told I'm not a Christian before because of some of this. Well I guess if it's that hot place for us, we can meet and have some s'mores.

In summary, I believe that most of the aspects of humanism can co-exist with a belief in God. This is how I choose to live my life, and I think that God is pleased with it. I think that's true. And when people do so I consider it terrific. I alway say.... I'm not looking for converts. I just get asked what I believe, and this works. Interestingly, when I posted this on another board those who have more fundamentalist type beliefs seemed pretty upset with it.