askandanswer

This is only a side issue, and doesn’t address your main point, but I’m guessing that somewhere in between the time of Joseph Smith and the time of Bruce R McConkie, our understanding of the term salvation may have been “refined” a little. Verse 59 seems to suggest that those described, or referred to in verses 58 and 59 are “heirs to salvation.” McConkie defined salvation in the following terms: 1. What is salvation? It is both immortality and eternal life. It is an inheritance in the highest heaven of the celestial world. It consists of the fullness of the glory of the Father and is reserved for those for whom the family unity continues in eternity. Those who are saved become as God is and live as he lives. https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/mcconkie-bruce-r_think-ye-salvation-grace/

That's not how you spell my name!

I think one type of international high level "conspiracy" are the investor-state dispute settlements that are currently a feature of many multi-national trade agreements between countries. Under this process, if the government of a country changes a policy in a manner that disadvantages the investments that a foreign company has made in that country, then that company can "sue" that government. For example, the Australian government is currently being sued by the Philip Morris and British American Tobacco companies for some recent initiatives the Australian government took to reduce the level of smoking in the general population. However, these "legal" proceedings do not take place in an open court - they are held behind closed doors, in specialised trade and arbitration conferences, and do not follow the rule of law and do not even publicly disclose the reason for their decisions. The NAFTA contains these types of provisions and I believe the almost completed trans-Pacific Partnership will contain similar provisions. These provisions give unelected multil-national companies enormous power over elected governments that might choose to do something for the benefit of their people, but which is against the interests of the company, and these decisions are made in secret by unaccountable international trade arbitration centres. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investor-state_dispute_settlement for more information.

Thanks for your input Skalenfehl and James. The lesson went as well as it could have in the 25 minutes I had available. Opening exercises went on longer than usual meaning that the lesson time was fairly compressed.

This is probably a bit of a side issue, but I note with interest that several hymns in our current hymn book seem to have some similarity with what might be considered to be political statements - I'm thinking of the nationalistic hymns and anthems that occupy the last few pages of the hymn book. Of particular interest are a few lines from hymn number 34, O ye mountains hymn, written by a former member of the First Presidency Thy deliv'rance is nigh; thy oppressors shall die; And thy land shall be freedom's abode The lyrics of God Save the King (hymn 341) seem to express a strong desire for a monarchy, which sounds a little like a political statement, and lets not forget hymn number 80, of which the last six words of each of the three verses is lest we forget, lest we forget. Of course, when these hymns are sung in a sacrament meeting, we can assume that they are sung with the approval of the presiding officer, and therefore the singing of these hymns cannot be interpreted as individuals making political statements -although it might create some interesting opportunities for a sneaky musical director.

Hi all This is my first time to try and use lds.net/forums in this way. I'm teaching about in Priesthood about grace tomorrow, using President Uchtdorf's Sunday morning conference address tomorrow. Can anyone point me to any good teachings/talks/sermons/book chapters on this topic? So far the one's I've looked at are: Bible dictionary – Grace Salvation by Grace or Works – Ensign article by Gerald N Lund, April 1981 at https://www.lds.org/ensign/1981/04/salvation-by-grace-or-by-works?lang=eng His Grace is Sufficient – talk by Brad Wilcox at https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/wilcox-brad_his-grace-is-sufficient/ What think ye of Grace – talk by Elder Bruce R McConkie at https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/mcconkie-bruce-r_think-ye-salvation-grace/ Faith Grace and Works, by Joseph F Smith in Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols., Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1954–56, 2:310–11 Encyclopaedia of Mormonism – Grace Grace Works by Robert L Millet

Tess the range of topics on which you provide well informed responses continues to surprise me!

why not email it?

Its only a matter of time before a more advanced form of the cell phone becomes an essential part of temple operations :) See http://lds.net/forums/topic/56547-cell-phones-and-white-stones/

So I guess its safe to say that there are some realities that God must abide by?

I agree with you Kirkko, I believe that even God is subject to a law of justice. Where the law comes from, and how it is enforced, I do not know, but I suspect it is a universal constant. It is perhaps the same law that enabled God to progress from man to God. Two reasons why I think God is subject to law: 1. I cannot think of any other reason why God would require His Beloved Son to endure the agonies that He did unless He was compelled to, in order to satisfy some sort of externally imposed requirement. Surely God would have done all in His power to avoid the suffering His Son went through if there was a way that it could have been avoided. He did not prevent the suffering of His Son, so perhaps it was beyond His power to do so. Somebody, or something, demanded that sacrifice. It's hard to see how it was the voluntary, free-will act of a Father who loved His Son and who could have achieved the same outcome - the atonement - through a less difficult approach. I think that because God was subject to a law of justice the atonement was the only way to satisfy the demands of this law. If there was an easier way, God would have done it. This argument is supported by: Alma 42:25 25 What, do ye suppose that mercy can rob justice? I say unto you, Nay; not one whit. If so, God wouldcease to be God. Alma 42:1313 Therefore, according to justice, the plan of redemption could not be brought about, only on conditions of repentance of men in this probationary state, yea, this preparatory state; for except it were for these conditions, mercy could not take effect except it should destroy the work of justice. Now the work of justice could not be destroyed; if so, Godwould cease to be God. Alma 42:2222 But there is a law given, and a punishment affixed, and a repentance granted; which repentance, mercy claimeth; otherwise, justice claimeth the creature and executeth the law, and the law inflicteth the punishment; if not so, the works of justice would be destroyed, and God would cease to be God 2. I believe that where God lives could be described as a kingdom, possibly even the Celestial Kingdom. Every kingdom is subject to some kind of law because there cannot be a kingdom without law. It may be that this includes the kingdom where God dwells. 36 All kingdoms have a law given; 37 And there are many kingdoms; for there is no space in the which there is no kingdom; and there is no kingdom in which there is no space, either a greater or a lesser kingdom. 38 And unto every kingdom is given a law; and unto every law there are certain bounds also and conditions.

The fact that, as spirits in the pre-existence, we rejoiced so much at the Plan of Salvation, even though we knew, or should have known, that most of us would fail to achieve the ultimate goal of that Plan, suggest that even the worst possible outcome under the Plan, with the exception of Outer Darkness, was a better outcome than our continued existence as pre-mortal spirits. Is this a valid conclusion?

What colour were the crutches? :)

Only twice, which is far fewer than I would like. There is a lot in Utah that I would like to do.

If I was compiling the records of today into a future Book of whoever for a future generation I would write: More on: Word of Wisdom. Mormon’s book is a little light on the principles contained within the Word of Wisdom, and given how much damaged is being caused by not following these principles, I think a future “Book of whoever” would need to contain some pretty strong stuff on this. Ditto for pornography. Excessive adherence to, and attempted applications of, various political ideologies. The ideologies of fascism, communism, socialism, and colonialism, and the attempts to establish states based on these ideologies have caused untold suffering to millions for decades. With the exception of colonialism, modern day church leaders have provided an abundance of material on these subjects that could be incorporated into a latter Book of whoever. Strengthening families. There’s not much in the Book of Mormon that specifically focusses on how to strengthen families, and it’s a topic to which recent and current church leaders have given a lot of emphasis, thereby creating many records from which to choose. Of course there is much in the Book of Mormon about principles and teachings that can be used to strengthen families, but most of the time, these are presented in a general sense, rather than a family specific sense. Given that families are one of Satan’s biggest targets, I think that the compiler of a latter day Book of whoever would do well to include some of those records. Anti-semitism and racial tolerance. Again, there is very little in the Book of Mormon on these two topics. Given how wide-spread anti-semitism and racial intolerance are, and the damage and evils caused by these two practices, and their remarkable persistence across differing times and cultures, I think it would be very useful if a latter day Book of whoever addressed these issues. Living true to our principles in a morally decaying world, and accommodating ourselves to laws and practices that stem from principles and beliefs that are not based on the Lord’s standards of truth and righteousness. Given the new struggles today involving legislative attempts to impose penalties on those who seek to follow the dictates of their own conscience, the need for a future Book of whoever to continue material on this topic is quite strong. Self reliance. The tendency to rely on others, particularly governments, to solve our problems, may have reduced our own ability or willingness to solve our problems and reduced our sense of personal responsibility. This tendency seems to apply across many western cultures and is probably causing much harm. Following the prophets. When all is said and done, all we really need to do to gain salvation is to simply follow the counsel of the prophets, so I’d give a very strong emphasis in a latter day Book of whoever to the importance of following the prophet. Less on: Battle and war scenes. Helpful as they may be to some, I think there are other topics that are more deserving. The atonement. This has already been covered pretty well in the existing Book of Mormon. Missionary work. Given the frequency with which missionary techniques, techniques and approaches change over time, and the level of adaptation required to maintain the effectiveness of these techniques across different cultures, I don’t think I’d try to instruct future generations on how to conduct missionary work in their time. They can get their own revelation on that.

David, I should warn you that there are a lot of Utahns living in Utah :)

Baptism 7 And it came to pass after many days there were a goodly number gathered together at the place of Mormon, to hear the words of Alma. Yea, all were gathered together that believed on his word, to hear him. And he did teach them, and did preach unto them repentance, and redemption, and faith on the Lord. 8 And it came to pass that he said unto them: Behold, here are the waters of Mormon (for thus were they called) and now, as ye are desirous to come into the fold of God, and to be called his people, and are willing to bear one another's burdens, that they may be light; 9 Yea, and are willing to mourn with those that mourn; yea, and comfort those that stand in need of comfort, and to stand as witnesses of God at all times and in all things, and in all places that ye may be in, even until death, that ye may be redeemed of God, and be numbered with those of the first resurrection, that ye may have eternal life— 10 Now I say unto you, if this be the desire of your hearts, what have you against being baptized in the name of the Lord, as a witness before him that ye have entered into a covenant with him, that ye will serve him and keep his commandments, that he may pour out his Spirit more abundantly upon you? 11 And now when the people had heard these words, they clapped their hands for joy, and exclaimed: This is the desire of our hearts. 12 And now it came to pass that Alma took Helam, he being one of the first, and went and stood forth in the water, and cried, saying: O Lord, pour out thy Spirit upon thy servant, that he may do this work with holiness of heart. 13 And when he had said these words, the Spirit of the Lord was upon him, and he said: Helam, I baptize thee, having authority from the Almighty God, as a testimony that ye have entered into a covenant to serve him until you are dead as to the mortal body; and may the Spirit of the Lord be poured out upon you; and may he grant unto you eternal life, through the redemption of Christ, whom he has prepared from the foundation of the world. Sacrament (Book of Mormon | Moroni 4:1 - 3) 1 THE manner of their elders and priests administering the flesh and blood of Christ unto the church; and they administered it according to the commandments of Christ; wherefore we know the manner to be true; and the elder or priest did minister it— 2 And they did kneel down with the church, and pray to the Father in the name of Christ, saying: 3 O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread to the souls of all those who partake of it; that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him, and keep his commandments which he hath given them, that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.

In Exodus 39 there is a precedent for wearing something as part of what a person wears for religious purposes to help us remember things. However, the instructions for these "clothes," their design, and what they memorialised came from the Lord. 6 ¶And they wrought onyx stones inclosed in ouches of gold, graven, as signets are graven, with the names of the children of Israel. 7 And he put them on the shoulders of the ephod, that they should be stones for a memorial to the children of Israel; as the Lord commanded Moses. in a latter day context, I'm guessing that the church's preference for men to wear white shirts is to help us focus on things like purity and cleanliness

When I served my mission, I baptised several people very close to my own age, all over the age of 17. Three of them were serving full time missions before I finished my own mission and all of them were almost fully financially supported from the general church mission fund. They each felt that serving a mission was the best decision they had ever made. In general terms, and without knowing the details, I think that it is in this young man's best interests to serve a mission and he should seek his own confirmation from the Lord if that is what the Lord would have him do. And I fully agree with notquiteperfect's suggestion that the decision to serve should be informed by his Patriarchal blessing.

Reluctant as I am to correct my seniors, may I suggest that your sense of direction may not be as sharp as it was in your younger years. :) I think the place you are referring to is just south of Papua New Guinea, and a little to the west of New Zealand. I can understand why you think Georgia might be the Celestial Kingdom, but you need to keep in mind that one of Satan's cleverest tricks is to make convincing counterfeits that look like the real thing.

ladykaystone, no matter who or what anybody is, has been ,or may become, the LDS church is the best place for anybody to be. It is the place, the vehicle, the sheep-fold, the healing place, that God has prepared to help His children return to Him in peace, happiness, safety and joy.

papa, I can't help but notice the similarities between your response, and the responses of Moses, Enoch and Mormon when they were asked to do something similar. By suggesting your inability to do the task, you have perhaps demonstrated one of the key requirements needed to do the task well. :) Ether 12 23 And I said unto him: Lord, the Gentiles will mock at these things, because of our weakness in writing; for Lord thou hast made us mighty in word by faith, but thou hast not made us mighty in writing; for thou hast made all this people that they could speak much, because of the Holy Ghost which thou hast given them; 27 And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them. Moses 6: 31 And when Enoch had heard these words, he bowed himself to the earth, before the Lord, and spake before the Lord, saying: Why is it that I have found favor in thy sight, and am but a lad, and all the people hate me; for I am slow of speech; wherefore am I thy servant? Exodus 4:10 And Moses said unto the Lord, O my Lord, I am not eloquent, neither heretofore, nor since thou hast spoken unto thy servant: but I am slow of speech, and of a slow tongue

Child enriched ward Child blessed ward Child enlivened ward child centered ward or going the other way child dominated ward child plagued ward child over-run ward Would anybody care to add to the list, either good or bad? What sort of child ward is yours? (with apologies to ladykaystone for this deviation from her original post)

Still ongoing. The problem is that the real gnomes are very good at posing as garden gnomes, so its often difficult to tell them apart.

If you were a modern day Mormon or Moroni, compiling and editing the history and records of this people for the use and instruction of a people far into the future, what would you focus on and why and what would you leave out.