lonetree

I agree with your theory and tend to think the same thing happens when people have had a bad day and notice on the way home that a full moon rides the sky.

Everytime I approach a traffic light that's turning from green to yellow, it's a little conspiracy against me. :) More seriously though, conspiracies, to the extent that they work at all, work better as entertainment in my world than reality. Ie the two films ; 'The Chernobyl Diaries' and 'Apollo 18'.

'So...why is retreat and isolation wrong for Christians?' It wasn't wrong for the Pilgrim Fathers, the Puritans, or that group of souls that journeyed into the 1840s American west, (can't quite put my finger on who they were at this point :) ) Anyway, I figure history's pendulum, whatever point it is at now, will someday swing back. Never let it be said, however, that 'Please just leave us alone, and let us practise our religion in peace' is necessarily a bad thing.

Just finished The Inspector Wexford mystery-"The Vault". Now have started the last Wexford mystery: "No Man's Nightingale". This was the last because the author, Ruth Rendell died in May. Edit - I just finished 'No Man's Nightingale' today. Despite some negative brief online reviews I saw months ago, it was a good read and, for me, a satisfying end to the 'story' of a fictional character.

Here, the economy or something anyway is killing more traditional stores. Sears is in bad bad shape. It would've been nice to have Target here, and thus another choice for consumers, but that didn't happen.

I really hate the 'something for nothing' mentality. My dad, now semi-retired, has a small automotive repair business and had to deal with it for decades. Not to take the topic too far from its original focus, but it may be exacerbated these days by what I call "the dollar store/internet" factor. I can get it free from the internet, or next to nothing from the local dollar store so why should I have to pay for it? Perhaps the 'goods' thinking has made a leap in some people's minds to 'services' as well. Incidentally, here in Southern Ontario, Canada, Dollar Stores are a huge business. Is it the same in the US?

Regarding 'Postmillenialism', I haven't read the book through in awhile, but Iain H Murray's "The Puritan Hope'(1971) is, right or wrong, a confident statement of postmillenialism and the future of the Christian church.

I just saw it too. It was a blast! Edit - Though the later alternate version of the punk 'What's wrong with this picture?" scene has no oomph at all compared with the original. The original Sarah was much more appealing as well, but I'm going on...

Not too much to add except to say that some of RSR is material covered earlier in his 'Joseph Smith and the Beginnings of Mormonism'. I've read the latter through a couple times, but could only get a little ways into the bio. thus far. We had to use Bushman's 'From Puritan To Yankee' in our colonial American history course in my second year of university. Taught by this man here back in the early 80s: http://www.ecu.edu/cs-cas/history/Swanson.cfm Enjoyed that class. I just wish that someone these days could write like the late Perry Miller.

Yes. Vivid and horrible. Reminds me of the film 28 Days Later(-not called post-apocalyptic for nothing :) ) Also of some of Thomas Hobbes that I've read: "...the dispositions of men are naturally such, that except they be restrained through fear of some coercive power, every man will distrust and dread each other, and as by natural right he may, so by necessity he will be forced to make use of the strength he hath, towards the preservation of himself." Romans 13.3 and others.

Great point about the christian primitivism context. I'm beginning Alexander Campbell's 'Christian System' at the present time, and find myself affirming much of what I've read. One of the questions nagging me though is whether Campbell and others were naive to think that men could get along -without- creeds.

It's not quite 200 for me but I understand the love

Creeds are still very powerful elements in some churches. Around here,there are conservative Dutch Reformed churches whose preaching revolves around the creeds (ie Canons Of Dort) as well as Scripture to the extent that one wonders why the creeds aren't just defined -as- Scripture.

Update: http://www.therebel.media/_trinity_western_s_loss_a

This happens to be my favorite verse of the Book Of Mormon. The bittersweet beauty of it reminds me of some of Ecclesiastes ie. 12-Especially 6 and 7.

"The Legend Of Boggy Creek" ('72) Despite its age, it had its creepy moments.

Yes, I think what was 'Christian' or even traditional 30 years ago may be going the way of the rotary dial telephone in both our countries. Your distinction between the otherization and the more benign 'peculiar people' made me think. Hasn't this always been the case? and is it confined to evangelicals? Isn't there a suspicion about Mormons in American cultural life that is more broad and historically deep than various strains in Protestantism? Perhaps I am imagining a little. In Evangelicalism itself, I do believe that they regard Mormon belief theologically as outside the pale. One apologist, James White has stated that Mormonism is more polytheistic than any religion and certainly more than the Islam he has encountered & debated. The implication is of course that somehow Islam is 'better' or even more biblical in some way. White says some thoughtful things, but that is below his usual standard. So cultural exclusivity may be part of it, but much Ev ire is also directed a the Jws-which are not a cultural threat to traditional American life. As to Catholics, there is still a strong current of thought that the Protestant Reformers, through their writings, still have a say on their 'Christian' identity. Doesn't the BOM have a say as well? I haven't read it through lately.

Jane-I like your distinction between the random person and the friend. And I am glad that my response is not so uncommon :). On common ground, if it's in a civic arena setting and the issue is say, why the town must cut funding to the public library; then sure, one must get along. But my deeply held and personal beliefs-they're not up for that kind of discussion. So, as to common ground, 'No' and we'll just have to agree to disagree on that

At first-edit-I'd be upset-, but it would wear off. Of course, if it was something I actually did that someone took offense to, but I doubt if that's what you're getting at. I certainly wouldn't try to see what 'common ground' the accusers have with me over my beliefs.

Thank you for your reply. But, (and I'm sure you've come across this before}; they don't believe that the Jesus you worship and follow is the real Jesus, the Jesus of the gospel; of their gospel. if you like. If their gospel is unrestored, or incomplete, then it's apples and oranges anyway, isn't it? When I hear people talk about Jesus as if he's a "Judge not", rainbow flag draped, champion of some, I know that that's a Jesus who lives just mostly in some people's minds, if at all-it may be a crutch for their own societally destructive desires. As you say; irksome, but people can be ignorant.

I like what you state about being 'content'. Even though I've read many of the responses here, I still don't understand why it should bother LDS people if someone refuses to call you Christian. You have the restored gospel don't you? Well then...

As to the 'still small voice' I found this (from Dallas Theological Sem)interesting: (it's lengthy; if you're impatient, the discussion of the text starts at about the 30 minute mark).

Those italicized lines remind me of an exchange in one of my favorites: "You've been too long away from Rome; Go back,...Go to Capri, bathe, rest, lie by the sea..."

When I withdrew myself from the church, I felt that distancing from people was the main part of it. Both now and then I like being on my own. When I was part of the church, the LDS members and friends I had seemed to know that & knew how to keep their distance. There was on the one hand no 'pressure' of any kind to stay with the Church. But there was also a keen sense that these people really cared about my decisions & wished that I would change my mind. I don't know how they did that complicated balancing act, but it was genuine, and I value it to this day. Incidentally, when I still lived in my former ward, I happened to see an LDS friend by chance while driving. He gave me a tentative wave as his car passed in front of me. It is one of my regrets(& sins of omission) that I did not wave back.

At least these were in the form of questions-even if coached. The little religious discussion I hear at my workplace usually consists of someone not really questioning but indignantly spouting off about why they 'can't' believe this or that. They're Not interested in what you think-only in what they just can't believe. Most days I'm glad that talking about such topics is discouraged by management.