char713

Oh, I agree. Most of my skirts are high-waisted. It's just the pants (some cuts, not all) that are the problem. Jeans are the worst for it, the fabric isn't that forgiving of the complicated and highly-varied waist to hip ratios found on women, nevermind hip to thigh, waist to rear, etc.

Grateful that I never shop at places that focus too heavily at being trendy. High-waist jeans look just okay on some people, GOOD on no one.

My husband was nearly aborted. He believes his spirit would have had a second chance in a different body, different parents, but he would not be the same person he is now. Nature/nurture, he would be a completely different person, apart from whatever parts of his spirit remained constant regardless of circumstance.

Women would have an easier time of dressing modestly if modest clothing cost the same as immodest clothing. Much of the time it is more expensive, because in order for it to not be clingy, or for blouses to not be sheer or to gape open, it requires more structuring in the fabric and more stitching. Clingy poly-knit skirts and dresses are inexpensive and immodest because of how simply (and often sloppily) they are constructed. Of course the obvious answer would be that we should just make our own clothing. Too bad that fabric and sewing materials (not to mention sewing machines!) make it completely cost-prohibitive. That may work for those who just can't find what they like in stores and so make their own.. it doesn't work for those who can't find anything truly modest in their low price point.

Getting a head start on learning math, because I know I'm gonna need it later on and am going to need a few remedial courses before I'm resurrected. I figure once I am unhampered by our many unpleasant earthly cares I might actually have a fighting chance.

Reporting back from the Highland Festival. Albannach is every bit as good as my siblings told me it was. As one of their songs says: "Now you may live a different place, Brought up and lived a different way, But if you have our blood in your veins, Then you will know us, know home, know who you are." If you've got any Scottish blood in you, please do check out their music. Better yet, see them live. Holy moly... those drums.

The Gift. We'd been wanting to see it for a while, it definitely did not disappoint. Joel Edgerton not only gave a fantastic performance, but he also wrote and directed the film. He's a talented gent. A fair bit of harsh language, a couple of disturbing sequences, lots of jump scares and suspense. Apart from the language it wouldn't have been rated R.

The church is not "bottom line" a social organization. But it is still one component. No man is an island. ...And if the other person on your island is doing their upmost to make your life miserable then you have two choices. You can ignore it, develop a skin of mithril, and stick around on the beautiful island that is sufficient to provide for your every need. Or you can find another way to survive.. whether it's by searching for another nearby island or going on the offensive against those who say "this island ain't big enough for the two of us." The first is the choice of a saint, the second the choice of a human. The Church is for both types of people.

Also, I now have a definable fashion style, thanks to this movie. I aspire to dress with the best of every era, but in a youthful and timeless way. Vintage pieces mixed with contemporary, but never costume-y or frumpy or old looking. I aspire to have a wardrobe and overall style like Adeline.

Age of Adeline again now that it's out on iTunes. Every bit as good as we remember (my husband loves it more than I do.) The special features also answered all of the questions that we had about the production, that almost never happens.

I mean by overtly sexy anything that is deliberately chosen because of the attention it draws to the sexualized parts of the body. Sisters certainly don't come to church in club wear, but I have seen some outfits that were surprisingly borderline. I know a few sisters who have a problem with the principle of modesty even without strict guidelines. I don't know that those kinds of people can ever be satisfied. If the men of the church are entirely responsible for their thoughts and actions, with women having no accountability in the matter, then I don't know how they could ever remotely feel safe and unexploited outside the church either. LDS guys are absolute saints compared to the average dude. Just the lack of cat-calling is proof enough.

I'm sorry that I gave you that impression. That was not what I was trying to say at all. You have yourself said that what matters more to you than individual feelings and opinions are the laws and doctrine... or maybe it is that you acknowledge that that is the impression you apparently give to others but don't know what to do about it. If I could remember where I read that comment from you is I would quote it. Here, you asked in response to Traveler, how one might show it more if they do in fact have the celestial formula figured out. I'm saying that that is one way in which we all might show it more. It is more important to be good than to be kind, but if we can be both I think that is about as Celestial as a human being can get.

If I leave my car window down.. way down.. and the valuables in the seat are stolen it doesn't make the person who stole them any less guilty, but it absolutely does mean that I was stupid and reckless. If a woman is wearing something overtly sexy (the very definition of the word implies that she is looking for sex) it is (at the very least) illogical for her to complain when she is sexually harassed or ogled.

As for my own thoughts on the matter: I remember reading once about a study that was to do with parents who read parenting books versus those who don't. Researchers were headed toward the conclusion that the parenting books were somehow making people better parents. But in reality, it is the kind of person who would seek out and read a parenting book who would make a better parent, simply because they are concerned enough to try. People who don't see a problem are unlikely to ever try to fix it. In short, it's a good thing if you are concerned. Chances are, that means you are exercising humility. And that humility will enable you to accomplish just about any spiritual feat you set your mind and prayers to.

Well, I don't know if it matters, but has anyone noticed how the OP hasn't responded again since posting her original question? Maybe because the first response she got was a correction of her question, rather than a response to what I assume is the OP's main point "how do you handle that feeling of uncertainty" (emphasis added.) This is the same problem that I have had with this particular section of the forum. She asked a question that springs at least partly from normal human insecurity. How about instead of automatically assuming that she doesn't know the doctrine, how about you answer her question as she posed it? Whatever happens after that happens, but at least you can say that your first response was nothing less than thoughtful and charitable. There are several people who did respond this way, I'm not saying this applies to everyone.

Lead Kindly Light, perhaps? I love that hymn and find it very soothing, even when I don't want to be soothed. Are you looking for any instrumental song ideas, or just ones to be sung? So sorry for your loss, I hope the plans come together smoothly and that her family are able to find the comfort they so need.

Please, do tell where it is that you shop. Low-end stores that sell dresses and skirts that I know of such as Old Navy and Target almost always use cheap, clingy poly-knit fabrics. Which are the reason for the problem. The only places I have found that carry more than one kind of woven skirt (nevermind dresses), more than once a year, that is not plain black or blue, that will also not fall apart within the first couple of washings (hello JcPenney, H&M, Forever 21, etc.) are online stores such as Modcloth and Anthropologie. Modcloth is relatively affordable, but at $40-$80 for a cotton skirt that's still waaaay more than prices at Old Navy. And they are not mass-produced so they sell out fast in most sizes. So no chance of sales. Even the so-called modest stores here in UT (Downeast Basics for example) are guilty of selling nothing but sheer and/or clingy skirts and dresses for the majority of the year. And let's not get into how expensive (and low-quality) their stuff is either! I am alright with it, myself, having to spend more (sometimes a lot more) to get something to wear for church that is not only modest but of decent quality and that I can wear consistently for months, or years even. It requires that I put more thought into what I wear, and make-do with fewer pieces of greater value. But I'm guessing that many women don't have that luxury. The cheap Old Navy skirt they bought in the spring rips or is stained, they don't have the budget to buy even a $40 JcPenney a-line skirt, so they go back to Old Navy again and grab whatever fits and is long enough.

Me again. I don't want to make excuses for those who dress immodestly, inadvertently or not. But I'm not sure that men, or women who just don't care about modesty, know just how hard it is to find truly modest clothing that is also proper for church (not a t-shirt, in other words.) There are so many ways in which a dress can be immodest in addition to being simply too low or high-cut: *sleeveless *the sleeve isn't really a sleeve, there is a cap sleeve but the whole armpit and more is exposed *sheer panels, cutouts *too tight *asymmetrical hem that is long enough in some places but not others *ill-fitting but otherwise perfectly modest tops that gape open, immodest when seen from the side *any of these issues on the back of the blouse or dress as well So if someone is lucky enough to come across a dress that covers all of these bases AND is not insanely overpriced, but it has the potential to be too clingy, I can see why they see that as the lesser of these many other evils.

My mom always used to have me and my sisters wear pantyhose on Sundays. This kept us from being able to wear flip-flop sandals to church and I believe she also meant them to prevent the "contouring" of which you speak. But who wears pantyhose now, really? Older sisters and maybe the most well-dressed elegant "Kate Middletons" of the world. And the whole point of wearing a maxi dress is the roomy, breezy comfort as well as not necessarily having to remember to shave your legs before church. Pantyhose would defeat the point of choosing a comfy dress in the first place. So that's why I only ever wear cotton, no matter the length of my skirt.

It's not just your ward. I do not like synthetic or synthetic-blend fabrics for several reasons but mainly because they cling so badly (and often quite unflatteringly too.) No matter how flowy and loose a maxi dress might be, if it is made of polyester it is going to hug the body. No amount of anti-static product will really help with this for three+ hrs of church. It is a problem. Even sisters who try their best to be modest occassionally wear these things, if only because the dress is inexpensive and doesn't require ironing. I search forever for cotton skirts and dresses, but finding a modest dress that is also made of cotton is a very difficult task. And when you find them, they are quite cost-prohibitive and more often than not, all the other sensible ladies have already bought it out in my size

That's the thing with the internet, the anonymity. No physical proof that they did, no physical proof that they didn't. Those with a clear conscience have no reason strong enough to take their own lives. If their spouses and friends take the hacker's word over theirs, then its a problem that may mean the end of the relationship, but still not a valid reason to end themselves.

Okay, I'll clarify. We tried to suck it up for about two-and-a-half years of this, finally came up with the simple solution of avoiding contact with the people who so dislike us. It's not so simple, of course, our temple recommends expired and we are ineligible to renew them. But we do attend Sacrament most weeks. Good point, Eowyn. Sometimes it worked to just keep quiet in meetings, keep my head down, and not linger amongst people before and after. But then when they call you during the week to get free tech-help from your husband and also take the time to remind you of how great their child's previous primary teacher was compared to you.. well I guess I just need to screen all my calls better. And when you are called on in RS to give an example because the teacher knows you work as a nanny, but the next person who raises their hand follows your comment with "as an ACTUAL parent I know that it's not always that easy..." Again there's not much I can do that is not more disruptive and hurtful and would only call additional attention to myself in meetings and elsewhere. Sorry, I don't mean to make this thread about myself. But I cannot assume that my situation is unique. I know it isn't. My cousin recently came out of the closet to our family and a few trusted friends, she wasn't going to broadcast it, but it got out to people in her stake. She is no longer accepted at singles dances or other mixer-type activities (which in a single's ward are a huge chunk of the activities!) and has felt like she needs to keep quiet at church too. Its not something she is intending on acting on, not something she is throwing in anyones face. But it is affecting her church involvement already, after less than three months. I hope eventually people will lose interest in the cruel teasing and unfair judgements, if not something as simple as sunday attendance will be an uphill battle for her for the rest of her life.

Those lyrics seem very familiar to me. My dad taught seminary for a few years in the 90s, he might have had that song on one of the tapes he used in class. I'll ask him.

Acknowledge imperfections and tolerate them, yes, the same way we all do at work and play, and in traffic and everywhere else. People who can't handle those basic slights need help, either from their own self-improvement, or leaders and friends or from a therapist or whatever. But for a person (like myself) who has been consistently and purposefully told (or the word instructed might be more accurate) by leaders and non-leaders at church that they do not belong, and ought not accept particular callings (in their humble opinion) and ought not speak up in church, and ought not attend certain activities.. all because of a life circumstance that is completely out of anyone's control. Well there comes a point when turning the other cheek again and again becomes akin to self-mutilation. Yes the Savior did just that, and we all do our best to be like Him, but that was also His particular calling for which He had been prepared. Being told over and over again to "suck it up" and to continue trying your best isn't good enough for every situation. Hearing it over and over from a Bishop or other leaders that "small offenses" are not something worth worrying about or missing church over.. well if nothing else that confirms the assumption that they are not actually listening. Hard benches are a small offense that affect everyone. The ward gossip causes small offenses but everyone knows and they support eachother in dealing with him or her.. even if its just a commiserative eye-roll from across the hall. There are many small offenses that most of us are capable of brushing off. However, being told in no uncertain terms (on multiple occassions) that you have no business accepting a calling in sunday school (teaching the Beehives and Deacons) or serving in Primary (age 6) because you are not a parent and so have no idea how to relate to children.. these are no less than deeply personal attacks. There are several people in our current ward who have said such things to myself and my husband, on many occassions. The Bishop can't or won't do anything about it (I don't envy him and appreciate everything he does do) and our own methods for answering for or defending ourselves have not changed things for the better. So we simply avoid attending church.

Can't say I'm that familiar with this particular style of music, and its not to my particular taste but clearly it requires a whole different kind of musicality to pull off. I couldn't help laughing at the judges, tripping over themselves to praise a style of music which they probably had no prior knowledge of as "the best Mongolia has to offer." How do they know that, exactly? How about just, "wow I'd never heard that style before, I can see that it takes a particular kind of talent to make it work, and to my untrained ear it sounds as if you put a lot of work into your music, so thank you." But they have to appear to be experts of course.