char713

Yeah, part of it is that people are cruel and I am not in a strong enough position myself right now to drop my safeguards and allow myself to be exposed every week to persistent, so-called "well-meaning" cruelty. And a different part of it is whatever type of social anxiety that I have, I beat myself up plenty in my own head without anyone else's help. Spending time in large groups always makes it harder to withstand and ignore that inner turmoil, for days afterward. So I can choose either church attendance and the benefits I hope will one day actually start to come from that. And the aggrevated risks in the days that follow. Or I can accept that there are people and situations that I cannot change, put my safety and well-being first, and hope that whomever our next Bishop is will be more willing to at least listen and try to understand.

Thanks everyone. I should have said more specifically that I am wondering why church attendance is a measure of worthiness, why it is on almost the same level as word of wisdom concerns. Attendance may be a measure of whether someone is prepared to hold a calling that has a bigger impact on the ward. It certainly is an indicator of whether or not covenants are being kept, as I said before. But if someone is genuinely worthy in all areas except for their inability to consistently manage their own well-being at or after church, because of social anxiety or whatever, that makes them unworthy? I guess beefche's response is the one that is most helpful, and I hope the bishop would see those efforts and take them for what they are.

Not physically unable, but emotionally and mentally. For example, if someone had almost debilitiating levels of shyness. Church is largely a social experience, and simply attending long enough to partake of the Sacrament is not enough to fulfill the requirement, all three meetings are expected. The temple is a much more peaceful, much less socially-demanding atmosphere. If being in large groups for three hours a week is too much for someone, and actually makes their week (on a mental level) much harder rather than easier, meeting the attendance requirements for worthiness could be a very hard battle.

I have been wondering this for some time. Why, if a person can answer honestly in the affirmative to all of the other TR interview questions, is a lack of regular church attendance a problem? I understand that church attendance helps members be known to leaders and to each other, and gives opportunities to serve and bear testimony, and all of that. Certainly, frequent or complete absence from church can often be a signal that someone has become disaffected or are not keeping their covenants. But to me it seems more like a symptom to be investigated rather than a disease to be cured. Is it impossible that someone can be entirely temple worthy but just unable, for whatever reason, to come to church? This has for the past couple of years been the ONLY thing that has kept me from the temple.

11:11 is a matter of superstition or wishfulness for people struggling w/ infertility. I'm not at all sure why that is, except that it resembles the two lines on a pregnancy test that are so hoped for. There are women I know who make actually set alarms for themselves every day to spend at least that full minute (11:11-11:12) thinking about where they are in their journey. I guess that definitely makes it a superstition. On a completely separate note, but still related to the overall topic I think: I have these weird hiccoughs that I have had since I was 16 (so about 12 years.) Thankfully I only get them a few times a day, because they are strange, loud, and often quite uncomfortable. Although I have tried various homemade tests to figure out what might cause them, I haven't cracked the code yet. The first day I started experiencing them I was at girls camp. Right from the beginning they annoyed me (and everyone around me) so much that I started checking my watch whenever one happened. I had a single hiccough every hour, for about 11 hours, on the 17th minute of each hour. It was rather odd.

My dad has kept at least one copy of every church manual that has ever been issued to him. When I was still living at home one of his favorite FHE lesson ideas was to compare and contrast things like the old and new For the Strength of Youth pamphlets. I offered to give him my copy of the fairly new Nursery handbook, he wasn't interested because there's nothing older to compare it to.

My younger siblings and cousins have all gotten limited-use recommends for when our grandparents visit and want to attend the temple with everyone. And for when we have visited the Nauvoo and Palmyra temples, so that everyone can go perform baptisms together. I wish I had known about this opportunity when I was that young, I didn't get to go to the temple at all until I was 15 because I never went when it wasn't a ward temple trip. We lived overseas and while it was a huge fundraising effort to get the whole YM/YW group on a plane to visit the nearest temple, it wouldn't have been that hard to save up for just my family to go.

The internet is not giving me a satisfactory answer. Is the word "pseudo" or "sudo" or is the former the antiquated version?

Eowyn, I guess that is part of my point. The BSA/Duty to God programs keep the boys (and their leaders) so busy and provide such an enormous to-do list that while they may make time for something light and fun and not merit-badge worthy, they actually do have to make time for it. The YW program, on the other hand, allows for so much wiggle-room for leaders to adapt activities to the wants and needs of their class groups. This is great for some groups, the kind that would keep on doing the best things no matter what the curriculum called for. But if you have (as I did as a YW, and as my sister does now as Mia Maid advisor in her ward) a majority of girls in the class who consistently ask for such impractical things as I mentioned.. it is like pulling teeth to get them to attend and participate in much else.

Thanks for that. Clearly my meaning has been entirely misunderstood. As I said before, if boys and girls are being prepared for equally important future roles, then why is a program that focuses on practicality good only for the boys - a program that has so many worthy requirements that there is no wiggle room to fit in frivolities if leaders are doing their job? Or, on the other hand, why is a program that focuses (or should focus) almost exclusively on spiritual things mainly for the girls? If the Duty to God program is not good enough to fully take over (after adaptations for primary-age boys) then why not? And why is it okay that a similar program (Personal Progress) is all that is expected of their female counterparts? I know that girls and boys are different, and my views about gender roles are actually more traditional than most of the LDS women my same age that I know. But when you compare the YM/YW programs, one group is being prepared with a lot of great spiritual lessons and some crafting/beauty/dating frivolities while the other is being prepared with a lot of great spiritual lessons AND some truly life-building skills that are not only handy and neat to impress girls with, but that are also marketable and maybe even impressive to put on a resume? Don't just tell me that that's what boys need and girls' needs are different. No girl I know NEEDS to know how to scrapbook or make cute object lesson handouts, for any aspect of future life. No RS sister NEEDS activities that are devoted to mani/pedis and tying poly-fleece blankets. There are much better things we can and should be doing, just because some sisters enjoy, perhaps even demand frivolities over substance ought not make any difference. The young men I know would rather play basketball in the gym than almost anything else at mutual, but that "need" does not define the bulk of their yearly activities.

I understand that part of the expenses must be to have certain safety parameters in place to protect girls as they go off on hikes and solo experiences. If that is the real, big reason for the added expense of church-owned campgrounds then I have no problem with it. I attended my first three Girls' Camps overseas, and the last three at the campground that the scouts in the area also used and that the Stake had some kind of part-ownership of. One of the years at camp when I lived in Japan was held on military base property, and I remember witnessing how upset and nervous our leaders were when a large group of uniformed men came jogging between our tents one morning. And my last year at camp, here in the states, the next campground over turned out to be occupied by cannabis-loving nudists. Thankfully nothing bad happened to any of the girls at either of these camps. But I am guessing that there are still a lot of Stakes around the world that hold their girls' camps under similar possible circumstances. But as I said, as long as the added expenses are going toward safety and security rather than an over-abundance of craft supplies and pricey snacks, I'm fine with it. I realize that I am one of a very slim minority, but yes I would have liked to camp out more often and more ruggedly, and play dodgeball or capture the flag more often, rather than learning to scrapbook, style hair, and paint birdhouses as often as I did in YW. The fact that those types of crafts started to carry over from mutual activities to girls' camp as well drove me nuts at the time. My first couple years of camp we actually learned some knots and how to get clean drinking water, build fires, treat injuries, etc. But then the program changed. BTW, I feel the same way about RS activities too. Smaller activities with more substance and less money spent on "fluff" (decor, beverages and desserts, laminated handouts etc.) would be wonderful for me. But not for very many other women, I know this. The best activities I have ever been to (and the only ones I remember much from) covered subjects like church history, budgeting, food storage, and making care packages for missionaries or deployed military personnel, etc. Even the activity we had last year where we sanitized all the nursery toys and talked about Christlike parenting was of greater value to me than most of our other get-togethers, and I don't have children. I feel like most of the men's activities, and YM activities too, are based on quite a lot of practical and applicable principles, and probably take a much smaller chunk of the yearly budget too. Sometimes they might just be for the sake of hanging out, as our ward's most recent EQ barbecue was, but at least they're unabashed about it.

Thank you for pointing out the distinction, and yes that is a lot of valuable information and skills for young men to have. Both of my brothers attained the Eagle Scout rank, as have most of the men in my extended family. I know what a valuable program it is and how it ought to be better appreciated than it is. But I've also been thinking.. now I don't want to de-rail this thread but I am wondering why it is so vital for the young men to have such a program but not young women? I don't personally feel like I missed out on anything as a young woman but looking at it from the perspective of those who complain about a lack of equality.. this is the one point they have that does make a tiny bit of logical sense. Either the two groups have equally important present and future roles to be trained and prepared for or they don't.. and the existence of both the BSA and Duty to God programs makes it look like more resources and energies are being devoted to the male side of things. If a religious but not necessarily temporal program is suitable and sufficient for the needs of the girls, why not also too for the boys? I do remember one experience from my teen years where I percieved a double-standard, though a lot of it was probably due to my mother's rules than anything the Church ever did. My brother went on camp outs with the young men at least one weekend out of every month his junior year of high school - a full weekend free of chores or other duties at home every month. Our Mia Maid advisor's son and husband went on these trips, so she got the Bishop's permission to hold activities for the Mia Maids and Laurels on those same weekends at her home. My parents viewed the scouting trips as church meetings - meaning required attendance, and my supplementary get-togethers as social gatherings only (which of course they were, we didn't have merit badges to earn) so I only got to attend once. Again, this is probably more to do with my parents than anything else, but if the YW had had a different program in place I certainly would have had a more vibrant social life during the summers, if nothing else. Edit: I do know that this all ultimately comes down to revelation and what the Prophet understands that the Lord wants for His children. Which ought to be enough of an answer in itself.

I honestly don't know that much about the Duty to God program, but it can hardly be any less worthwhile than the Personal Progress program, can it? It was a little easier than I thought necessary when I went through it but it was hardly the only thing that the Church provided to enrich my life and fill my free time while in high school. I realize that the Eagle Scout rank is something recognizable to the rest of the world, and that our young men will miss out on being able to pursue that particular accolade will in some ways be a setback. But women have been "making do" with personal progress for a long time (though I don't think we're missing out on anything) and I am positive that however the Duty to God program is expanded or enhanced to fill the gap, it will be more than adequate. Minus the ceremonies, recognition, and titles.. but again, Young Women have been doing just fine without those things for quite some time, and barely seem to notice.

Duty to God has been around for several years now. I don't have sons or anything but I know if I do they are likely to get more out of that program than Scouting, even if the Church were somehow able to keep it's ties with the BSA. My young cousin is really into the scouting program but looks forward to more focus being placed on the Duty to God in the future.

Interesting tool. I'm more closely related to Barack Obama than William McKinley but of all the US Presidents listed there, I am most closely related to George Washington. I approve of this.

I remember the John Bytheway version - I believe this is the second verse: When I am invited to play hide 'n' seek Sometimes I am "IT" and I feel like a geek 'Cos all of the others like Tommy and Kevin Will count up to ten but I count to eleven. My little sister had a sixth finger nub until she was a young teenager. We teased her mercilessly. She hated this song. Poor kid!

No. But you must understand that LDS spouses of porn addicts are caught between a couple of really tough "what ifs." On the one hand we are told in the scriptures that if a man looks on a woman to lust after her he has already committed adultery in his heart (sorry can't remember the reference for that off the top..) So many spouses live in dread that their spouse's addiction will progress to that point. But on the other hand we are told that a large percentage of men in the church are currently entrenched in addiction to pornography, and I haven't heard or read of the statistics about women but we know there are many women who struggle with it as well. So is it better to live with someone you want to fully trust but cannot, to not condone but still tolerate (by not seeking divorce) behavior that is all-but adultery (and if left unchecked can often lead to that kind of acting out, even if it is just online but still "with" another person) and leave your children at risk too? Or is it better to try your luck on a new start and hope that your next spouse is more honest and worthy in this aspect? The statistics sure aren't great. So what is better, not having a spouse or not being able to trust your spouse or depend on them as a Priesthood holder and someone who can at least attend the temple with a clear conscience? At what point is being married for the sake of fulfilling a commandment more important than your own emotional/mental wellbeing? It is not the non-addict's fault that their spouse is where they are, so while they ought to do their best to support their husband/wife and attempt to bear their burdens, at some point it may become nothing more than self-punishment to keep trying, praying, and aching for things to change.

I believe the term that is used most often to describe his title/occupation/genre is a Christian Apologist, which if I am understanding that term correctly, puts him under the somewhat broad umbrella of the title of theologian. I like what Vort said, that Lewis is an explainer rather than an authority. One (unknown) commentator on his works said that "he possesses the rare gift of making righteousness readable." I think that is why he is so often quoted, never as a replacement for actual doctrine or scripture but as a succinct "summing up" in modern language. Everyone should do their own study of faith and works and not let their own understanding rely solely on what is one of Lewis' most famous "object lessons." But it is helpful nonetheless to be able to picture that pair of scissors.

We saw Ant-Man tonight. It completely exceeded our expectations and was very, very funny.

I read somewhere yesterday that due to the speed at which New Horizons was travelling, if it had hit anything larger than a grain of rice it would have been incapacitated and the mission would have failed. Knowing that, it sounds to me like Heavenly Father quite literally cleared the path for the mission to be successful.

That's one problem with poetry or lyrics, they can and so often do leave much open to interpretation. But this song is hardly the only place where LDS children learn about the purpose and importance of service. If it was we'd have much bigger problems here than cheapness and entitlement. I have said this before I think, but having lived in Utah for five years now and in three different wards, I think I have started to put a finger on it. I should preface by saying that I grew up mostly overseas, where for the most part, our wards and branches were the closest thing we had to family within thousands of miles. Temples were usually at least a day's journey away and it took months to save up for youth temple trips. So we appreciated family more, we appreciated temple service more, and had to work harder as congregations to get along and work together. Utah is the absolute opposite of that, at least in my experience. Temples are taken for granted, most of the families in each of the wards we have lived in here have lived in the same city for decades and all of their extended family lives close by. And I think there is this subconscious attitude or expecation that because the church is so close-by on every side, and Church HQ is just up the road a bit, that we don't need to watch out for or take care of each other in any real way. Except for that which enriches our personal economy, that is, because our spiritual needs at least appear to be cushily provided-for. Edit: I mean, just take church Christmas parties as a small example. We moved around a lot as I said, most of my life has been spent overseas. But we also lived a few years in wards on the east coast and in Colorado. My family is really big into Christmas and everything to do with it, so even for all the Christmas parties that I don't have specific memories of, photo and/or video evidence exists. Everywhere else I have lived except for Utah, the Christmas party was the absolute biggest ward event of the entire year, by a big margin. All the stops were pulled, big themes in the decor, lots of carol singalongs, and sometimes Nativity plays were planned in advance. And as much of the yearly budget as possible went toward the food, everything very festive. I hope most of you have experienced this. But not so in Utah, in my experience. I have now attended five ward christmas parties in three different wards. Each time they were very poorly promoted, even more poorly attended, four out of five were held in the morning, and at three of the five there was no mention of the Nativity story whatsoever.. all of them felt like just brief meet-n-greets with pancakes. I felt embarassed for the activities committees each time. I think this says a lot about the attitude of the wards as a whole and the focus they place on everything other than the ward as a unit. So if our neighbor has a marketable skill that we feel we could benefit from, before even speaking with him we expect that he will be eager for a service opportunity. Maybe we think it's because he spends enough time with his family who all (presumably) live nearby just like our own does, and he will undoubtedly relish the chance for time away from them. Or maybe he will do us this favor because he's a good guy and he knows that most of his customers are LDS too, and will appreciate a chance for selfless service. And we comfortably presume that any marketable skills that we might have to share are not well-known or very desireable and feel satisfied that any requests for reciprocity will be in the far-distant future, and maybe even easily deferrable onto someone else.

Both of my siblings who have children have had their baby blessings in their home with just the Bishop, and I think in my sister's case their home teacher involved. If we ever have children I will want to do it the same way. Maybe this comes from having moved around very frequently as a child, but having the ward "family" be that deeply involved in my life has never been important to me. The blessing is for the child, and is given by the father (in most cases) rather than the Bishop or some other non-family member so I cannot see what is wrong with having it be a family only or family-mostly affair. This doesn't mean that the child or the parents will be any less-involved in service in the ward than anyone else. The kinds of things that my mother recorded from when I was blessed feel sacred and private to me now, and I feel like we rarely invite mass groups of people into such detailed, personal spiritual times so why must a baby blessing be a public event? It's not exactly a patriarchal blessing by any means, but I feel like I am no less known to my ward for not having the date and time of that event, or details of the blessing itself dispersed. My parents have friends from years back who they still keep in touch with, and we have stayed with them a few times while visiting on the east coast. The husband is famous/infamous for his near-perfect memory, but general lack of tact and self-awareness. He loves to quote for me the part from my baby blessing about my future motherhood, and just doesn't seem to get why that isn't funny anymore. I know this is just my situation, but I would so much rather have never had that part of my life broadcasted, even if it was when I was a tiny infant.

Batman (1989) First time watching this one. Hated it. I really think the only reason why some fans prefer Keaton's Batman and Nicholson's Joker to anyone else's version is because it was the first movie. I love Michael Keaton generally (particularly as Dogberry in Much Ado) but he's no kind of Batman or Bruce Wayne. And don't get me started on Jack Nicholson.. suffice it to say that Jim Carrey would have played the role the exact same way and Jim Carrey is the bane of my moviegoing existence.

The only one besides the modern Gadianton Robbers thing that Eowyn mentioned is about the Nazis. I have yet to do more research but I read the book "The Pink Swastika" by Scott Lively and Kevin Abrams. It is about how most if not all of Hitler's inner circle were closeted masculine homosexuals and that they systematically persecuted effeminate homosexuals amongst the rest of the victims of the holocaust. You can find the whole thing in a PDF online now.

Any ideas as to why that is though? I'm guessing it has mostly to do with the state laws, and the types of businesses that have been established here. Many of which cater to the mormon mentality of thrifty-ness and borderline Law of Consecration expectations, as Backroads said. And while non members might not be naturally cheap people, they are free and willing to take advantage of it same as anyone else when it benefits them.