Amillia

I haven't particularly noticed this mindset on this board with a couple of exceptions. Many of our beliefs about sin are formed by how we interpret scripture. One person may interpret a scripture literally and unbendingly. Another person may take language and cultural context into account. Still another may take into account extra biblical religious texts. It's not always as simple as "The scriptures say..." The pattern I notice about sin is that there is always an absence of real love in sin. Stealing, committing adultery, murder, dishonoring parents, etc. are all things that cause others pain and unhappiness. They are always selfish acts that put the momentary gain of the perpetrator before the well being of the victim. Curvy--great answer! The greatest sin: Trying to decide what makes SOMEONE ELSE sinful. IMHO it comes from a desire to make every one else less "rightous" than one self. My definition of sin: Any intentional human activity that damages, demeans or deprives oneself or another without a higher social justification, and on balance does more harm in the world than good. Now all we have to do is define: damage, demean, deprive, social justification, harm and good. Since none of us will ever agree on these definitions nor the assumptions that underly them; no one will ever be able to define sin for anyone but oneself. Perhaps the only logical defintion of sin is defined only by the person, for himself. What every person knows in his own heart to be wrong, and does it anyway, is sin. Please simplify. Around and around we go~

Great, they must be the aliens who brought their bones with them. If we are trying to prove that the world existed and was peopled before the bible teaches, why didn't you say so in the first place? I thought we were working within the time frame of written history. hmmmmm. Why didn't they leave a written record of 20,000 some odd years of living and dying?

There is evidence that the asians came from the americas during the bofm era. Someone pointed me to the books written about this subject.

any links? http://www.sealedportion.com/ Thanks.

Don't listen to them Faerie! I had 4 of my 5 induced! All normal, all smart, all great! Just make sure they don't push you too hard or too slow. Go it as hard as you can for speed, but as slow as necessary to make it safe for you and the baby. I had one on December 30. They delivered him in a socking to me like Strawberry. JFYI when you have an epidural makes it take longer, unless you have what happened to me, happen to you. When I had one of my babies, the bending me over to give it to me, pushed the baby almost out. I delivered before the epidural had time to take effect. That was okay by me. :) Hey you guys, only positive thought here!

What if it isn't all about making ourselves happy. It would get old if all we did was try and please ourselves. When we are helping others it is always new and challenging. Helping others for eternity would never get old because we would constantly be renewed by the joy we brought into other's existence. I believe you're right. There will be things we can't even conceive of right now. I don't believe that the earth was created in 6,000 years. It was organized in that time, but not created. Matter unorganized existed befor the creation and where did it come from? How long did it take to creat matter unorganized?

By religions I presume the poster means Chrstian sects. If so, then, no, I am not aware of any christian sect that praises someone other than God or Jesus. It would be seen as Blasphemy. Gives pause for thought... :) I see Buda statues in temples in China, Apostle statues in Cathedrals all over the world, and Virgin Marys. Come to think of it, they have a dozen patron saints. What about Mohamad?

Making sure moving there isnt on your agenda in the future??? :) I'm curious. Besides the obvious (belief that the priesthood is strictly a men's only club), what is it that is objectionable about a woman in a priesthood office? I agree that once a woman is a mother, her children deserve to be the undisputed top priority. If young mothers were burdened with the priesthood, the children would suffer. But what about unmarried women? Or married women who are unable to have children? Or older women whose children are grown? From a simply logical perspective it seems that these women have the human qualifications to hold priesthood offices if they have the organizational skills they require. Obviously, having a blanket rule banning women from the Priesthood is the simplest solution, but I think many women would make fine priesthood holders. I see women as having the greater gift. They have purer hearts *ingeneral, not individually speaking*, and are more giving by nature. Those who do not have children or husband's can be helpful with children of other's whose house is full. It was Ardith Kapp who showed how she could be a *mother* to all her children at school as a teacher. How blessed those children, and families of those children, were to have her recognize the higher calling of womanhood. Priesthood is not a responsiblity I would want put upon my shoulders. It would be like someone making me the mule who pulled the plow. It is better to be the one behind the mule.

Heaven; it will be a place where we will be reuinted with family. We will do picnics and barbeques and tell stories of our lives. Then, also, we will visit those in other levels or degrees and teach them, and help them raise their own spiritual lives so they can progress to a higher level. See, when we help others to progress, we progress too. And if we are to progress eternally, we must help others to progress. That is heaven and what we will be doing there.

hmmm. I guess you could quote the Doctrine and Covenants verses about the light being in everything, giving it life.

The greatest sin is a thankless heart.

True, it doesn't matter. Just stating that it bugs me, and contradicts what they teach. Sometimes people don't think about how something sounds, especially if they've been told that their entire lives. I had a neighbor, *still do actually*, who always had little phrases for dismissing anything anyone said about everything. That bugged me for a long time. But you know, she was just trying to cope with a pretty hellish life. Everyone seems to have their own way of dealing with things and sometimes the way they do it bugs us. But maybe we have to ask ourselves why it bugs us really. I found out later in my life that the reason this neighbors dismissing phrases; like; nobodies perfect, that's just the way it is, life isn't easy, it really doesn't matter anyway, God knows all and will take care of all, ~ why these bugged me so much was, that I wanted her to feel and see things with the same intensity I did. Now that I have mellowed out, her ways don't bug me anymore because I see why she does it.

any links?

If there is one pet peeve I have about explanations that LDS people give, it is this. You could say this about anything. That was always the excuse given to me about polygamy. It just seems like a cop-out. What's so ironic is that, while I was taking discussions, the point that the missionaries kept making was that in this religion, everything has an explanation and makes sense. Not if you have to use this... Well if it isn't true, it doesn't matter. Don't let it bother you Shanstress. You are happy with where your are now and I think that is what counts, don't you?

Will wonders never cease? I fully agree with you Curvette.

It isn't false. I think it is found in 2nd Nephi. Here is what I found in the reference on sealed book; 2 Ne. 26: 17 17 For thus saith the Lord God: They shall awrite• the things which shall be done among them, and they shall be written and bsealed up in a book, and those who have dwindled in cunbelief shall not have them, for they dseek• to destroy the things of God. 2 Ne. 27: 7 7 And behold the book shall be asealed•; and in the book shall be a brevelation• from God, from the beginning of the world to the cending• thereof. 2 Ne. 27: 8 8 Wherefore, because of the things which are asealed• up, the things which are sealed shall not be delivered in the day of the wickedness and abominations of the people. Wherefore the book shall be kept from them. 2 Ne. 27: 10 10 But the words which are asealed• he shall not deliver, neither shall he deliver the book. For the book shall be sealed by the power of God, and the revelation which was sealed shall be kept in the book until the own due time of the Lord, that they may come forth; for behold, they breveal• all things from the foundation of the world unto the end thereof. 2 Ne. 27: 11 11 And the day cometh that the words of the book which were sealed shall be read upon the house tops; and they shall be read by the power of Christ; and all things shall be arevealed• unto the children of men which ever have been among the children of men, and which ever will be even unto the end of the earth. 2 Ne. 27: 15 15 But behold, it shall come to pass that the Lord God shall say unto him to whom he shall deliver the book: Take these words which are not sealed and deliver them to another, that he may show them unto the learned, saying: aRead• this, I pray thee. And the learned shall say: Bring hither the book, and I will read them. 2 Ne. 27: 17 17 And the man shall say: I cannot bring the book, for it is sealed. 2 Ne. 27: 22 22 Wherefore, when thou hast read the words which I have commanded thee, and obtained the awitnesses which I have promised unto thee, then shalt thou seal up the book again, and hide it up unto me, that I may preserve the words which thou hast not read, until I shall see fit in mine own bwisdom to creveal• all things unto the children of men.

Traveler, you should have been here long enough to know that JD doesn't contribute intelligently, or with any real educated insights. It is all blather from an empty well. You, on the other hand, keep our minds working, and our hearts gladdened with all you put into your posts. :)

Shanstress said; I believe there are a lot of peole who get miracles without fasting and praying for them themselves. But my dad fasts and prays for all the world asking God to bless all according to their needs. Maybe it is his prayers and fasting which brings miracles to those who don't fast and pray for them. Maybe there are lots of good people who fast and pray for those they don't even know.

My husband did all of his schooling at night after we had kids. It wasn't easy, but it is possible and has it's rewards.

I appreciate all that you said, thank you Jenda. :) The part that you said about not feeling acceptable to ourselves is the problem with this young person. No matter what others have told this person about their worth in the eyes of Our Father, they can not believe it. How can you help someone who has gotten into this spot? This person prays all the time but only in behalf of other people. I would tell your young person that Christ's love can even overcome their own self condemnation if they will just allow Christ in. Tell 'em that if they won't let Christ in, then they are the ones shutting the door. Can we really think we can make ourselves worth? Isn't Christ the only one who can take away our sins? Do we think we can take away our own sins to make us worthy of his love and atonement? If we could, wouldn't it make the atonement unnecessary?

Wow is right, Strawberry. God is in his heavens looking down upon you and your son. Amazing.

Well my husband is an engineer. Is that close enough?

No one knows the day or hour they will die either.

I believe Christ has already come when He appeared to Joseph Smith and established his kingdom on earth again. Those who are zion know this already. but what about every knee bowing? the millenium where Christ reigns personally upon the earth (article of faith)? the millenium where satan is bound? prophets in jerusalem dying and being resurrected? the wicked all being burned? and tons of other things? these things haven't happened yet. when Christ comes, then the millenium will come where the wickedness we see today won't exist. All those things are happening every single day. Daily people are being brought to their knees, knowing and confessing Jesus is the Christ. Daily Christ reigns int he hearts of the righteous. Satan is bound by the righteous, in their lives. He can't do a thing! How would you know about the prophets dying in Jerusalem, when they did? Daily the wicked are burned when they die in their sins. Haven't you ever heard the stories of the Near Death Experience people? Try reading Alma's account of being tormented by his sins. I had a dream once where I was shown how those who died in their sins were like they became one of the burned out stumps in a forest that had burned to stubble. Symbolism helps us get a feel for what we will and do experience daily.

Ok, so you made the whole story up. Why didn't you say so instead of pushing your idea as being legit on some level? Do you have any other "alternate" ideas on how the things in the B-b-e "really" happened? I would be interested in reading your version of the life and times of M-s-s. A version, impression or understanding has a different connotation than “made up”. I offered the most reasonable and logical deduction of the manner in which Nineveh accepted harsh criticism. Note that no one, including yourself has offer and more logical explanation that explains the odd events we encounter in the story of Jonah. I also believe that all things in scripture have a type and shadow in an ever reoccurring cycle of events. (See Ecclesiastes 1:9-11) In the case of Jonah, there is a type and shadow with the death and resurrection of the Christ as explained by Jesus in Matthew. As per your question concerning Moses. We have more types and shadows concerning the coming of Christ and the events and process of the covenant children of the L-rd being delivered from the bondage of worldliness. In fact if you have “eyes that can see” and “ears that can hear” you can understand your own Exodus struggles to a spiritual “promised land”. You will note that I placed in quotes terms and phrases that have direct meaning concerning a covenant or contract with G-d. These are not mystical or transcendental concepts but clear ancient legal conventual terms that were common in ancient Near Eastern societies and culture. You may also note that I do not spell out completely certain terms that were not spelled out in actual ancient text. Not only did the ancients understand sacred things according to covenant, they reflected their understanding in the manner in which they wrote concerning sacred subjects. It is rare for me to encounter a Christian (LDS or otherwise) that understands these things. Therefore I know by type and shadow the depth in which those that have entered into covenant with G-d are faithful. The Traveler You certainly make the intelligent people think, which also, unfortunately, makes the stupid ones blather. Keep it going, I, for one, like to be brought to a deeper level of understanding and thought.