LeSellers
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Posts posted by LeSellers
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8 hours ago, pam said:
Then you better bring it up with the Church. Even they use the term collecting fast offerings.
https://www.lds.org/manual/aaronic-priesthood-manual-1/lesson-4-gathering-fast-offerings?lang=eng
They use gathering and at the end use collecting. So if it's good enough for them it's good enough for me.
Even the CHI uses the terms gather and collect.
8 hours ago, jerome1232 said:I'm not sure why you're so strongly associating the term collection with a mandatory payment. It simply describes the act of gathering monies. Heck one of its definitions is associated with charitable giving.
It's probably common. But when I was a deacon, receiving the Fast Offerings, we were told in one of the manuals used back then, that we were never to say, "We're here to collect the Fast offering." Instead, it was to "We're here to receive the Fast Offering."
The difference, as explained above, is one of mindset.
Lehi
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6 hours ago, mirkwood said:
Do you actively seek ways to be argumentive?
Not actively. It jess comes natcherly.
I was actually trying to be lighthearted. Obviously we don't share the same sense of humor.
Lehi
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8 hours ago, bytebear said:
Growing up, we had fast offerings collected door to door by the deacons every fast Sunday after church. I am sure in Utah (where the stats come from), it's not uncommon to have a much higher percentage of people donate.
This is, I believe, more than a quibble.
Fast offerings are not "collected", they are "received". They are not a bill to be paid, they are a free will offering (hence the name), and the Deacons who receive them are acting as the Lord in receiving them. This is not a trivial thing. By using the word "collect", we make it less noble, less virtuous, and less godly than it is, than we have a right for it to be.
Lehi
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31 minutes ago, beefche said:
Hahaha! But, instead of a bat [to kill the zombies], you'll use your Glock, right?
Sorry, folks; neither bat nor Glock will do. Zombies die only if you behead them or damage their brains.
Lehi
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2 hours ago, EricE said:
Since secular morality has existed since long before Christianity, I don't think you can just claim it as judeo-christian.
We can, since "Judeo-Christian" predates either Jesus' birth or Judah's — it goes back to Adam.
2 hours ago, EricE said:Just because we are constantly improving as a society,
And you have evidence that what we're doing is "improving"? How? What? Who decides it's "improving" and not "regressing"?
You seem to be suffering from a severe case of chronocentrism and, specifically, presentism.
Lehi
- mordorbund and Anddenex
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11 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:
Well we could start with him being the first candidate I'm aware of to evoke a response from the church. Our leaders are against his anti-Muslim policies because of our own history of persecution.
I suspect Joseph Smith's candidacy evoked more than "a response".
I also suspect the "response" was more against what people think he said, rather than what he actually said.
He hasn't said anything "anti-Muslim", but more anti stupidity on the part of the immigration policy of this current admuckitupistration.
And, what he said about illegal Mexican immigrants is undeniably true. Some of them are rapists, drug dealers and so on. Few of them are upper or middle class folk. The data are clear.
Most of the anti-Trump rhetoric is based on completely erroneous reports of his words, or, if the words are given, they're out of context and sandwiched between a lot of left-wing propaganda.
Lehi
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31 minutes ago, MormonGator said:
Time and place for everything. You might think that leading your workplace in daily prayer is a positive, but the atheist who runs human resources may disagree with you.
It's been my experience that atheists are the thinnest skinned, most easily offended folk on the planet.
In addition to which, they are the most "evangelical". They want everyone to accept their (un)belief.
Lehi
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13 minutes ago, EricE said:
I get techy when people start making up things I've supposedly said. I find it fantastically dishonest.
When I quoted your own words, you were a bit techy, fer shure. You accused me of cherry picking, but as far as I could tell, there wasn't any other reasonable way of interpreting your statement.
And you have yet to answer the question, how do you know your morality is objectively moral, truly moral, the quintessence of morality, whatever-term-you-like morality?
Lehi
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On 8/11/2016 at 6:01 AM, unixknight said:
People don't trust Clinton's sincerity when she claims to have fought for religious freedom. I wonder why...
"Laws have to be backed up with resources and political will. And deep-seated cultural codes, religious beliefs and structural biases have to be changed." -Hilary Clinton a few days earlier when she was feeling a bit more honest
Ohhhh that's right. We gotta pay for abortions, in her mind.
Not merely pay for them, but enjoy it.
Lehi
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5 hours ago, Blackmarch said:
IT should be interesting to see what wikileaks is promising to spew in the near future.
"Spew" is a bit prejudiced.
If what we're seeing in the run up is indicative, that spew should be interesting, indeed. One can only hope that those who vote for a living care at all about security and such. It might also be fun to see how they react to the leaked DNC files showing the DemoComm Party is far more racist than the Ferguson, MO, police department where three or four eMails were enough to burn the city down and fire the police chief.
Lehi
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5 hours ago, Blackmarch said:
i'm saying it could also be done to keep her out of office.
It wouldn't take many such killings to keep her out of office if the frame up were announced on the leftstream media. As it is, the progressives are hiding it, not exposing it.
The circumstances scream don't rock her boat or die. (And that boat isn't wholly political.)
Lehi
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3 hours ago, omegaseamaster75 said:
This was JS opinion, he also thought that the native americans were Lamanites...
Some are, some may not be. Exogamy being what it is, and the fact of (classical) rape's being a widespread practice the world around, and notably in the Americas, it would surprise me not at all to find out that all Indians have an ancestor from the Land of Jerusalem.
Lehi
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This is the kind of thing we need to see more often if Muslims are ever going to be seen as assimilating into Western Culture:
Lehi
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9 hours ago, EricE said:
To quote another person I'm a fan of, faith is the excuse people give for believing something when they don't have a good reason.
Once again, you make the mistake of assuming there is no good reason. You don't accept the reasons, but that does not make the reason "ungood".
Lehi
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8 hours ago, Zarahemla said:
In real life when we die and are trying to enter the presence of God, do you think we will really give the signs and tokens like we learn in the temple or will it be simply you were good you can enter.
Yea, verily.
The "Lecture Before the Veil" (now incorporated into the introduction) tells us that it is so. I believe it.
Lehi
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9 hours ago, Colirio said:20 hours ago, anatess2 said:
How do you come to the conclusion that Trump does not support the Constitution?
This is just one of the latest examples:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/11/politics/donald-trump-military-courts-election-2016/index.html
But that's not quite accurate.
Hrere's the pull quote:
QuoteThe Republican presidential nominee told the Miami Herald that he doesn't "at all" like the idea of trying terrorist suspects in the civilian court system, even though US citizens are constitutionally entitled to due process. He added that he would be "fine" with trying US citizens in military tribunals at Guantánamo Bay, the US naval base that is also home to a military prison housing captured terror suspects.
Those housed at Guantánamo Bay, even those who are USAan citizens, are prisoners of war. It is not only constitutional, but rational, to try them as such.
Lehi
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24 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:
he's bad news for anyone who isn't white and his brand of Christian
One wonders what he's done or said that points to this.
Everything he has said, from "the wall" to a temporary ban on immigration, is just either common sense or executing the law as we have it.
Lehi
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8 hours ago, Blackmarch said:
As detestible as she is the murders have yet to be proven, furthermore if the spate of deaths are politically related, its also possible that another party that wants people against hillary is responsible.
I don't see any significant difference between her doing it (ordering it done) or someone else ordering it done or doing it because he wants her in the Oval Office.
The effect is the same, and "birds of a feather …" 'n all.
Lehi
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6 minutes ago, Colirio said:
Rallying around the lesser of two evils doesn't seem to be working.
Perhaps, but that ship has sailed.
7 minutes ago, Colirio said:Perhaps voting FOR someone instead of AGAINST the greater evil might provide a more solid foundation to receive God's intended blessings.
You don't want to rally 'roun' Trump. What are you going to do?
Lehi
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5 minutes ago, EricE said:
The well being of the individual, the society, and the species.
The three do not necessarily align.
So, we're back to what's wrong with murder if it enhances one person's :well being"? He's an individual, isn't he?
Lehi
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16 minutes ago, EricE said:
… nor have I ever claimed that my or anyone's morality is based on survival of species.
This sure sounds like it:
4 hours ago, EricE said:Human beings are social animals, and just like other social animals we have an innate sense of simple morality. I argued above that this secular morality was based on well-being. The well-being of individuals, the society, and the species.
Lehi
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16 minutes ago, EricE said:
The person I was talking to had just said there was no actual evidence.
Again, you reject evidence because it doesn't conform to your notion of "actual evidence".
You can't measure temperature with a compass, nor distance with a spectroscope. You are trying to do the same kind of thing.
Lehi
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5 hours ago, omegaseamaster75 said:5 hours ago, LeSellers said:
I have read people whose research I trust and who demonstrate that the areas a few hundred miles north of Panama and northward to the Yucatan Peninsula is a very likely locale for the events' of the majority of the Book of Mormon account as we have it.
CFR
Well, the reference for my having read it is my statement that I have. Do you doubt that, meaning, are you calling me a liar?
But, I assume that you mean I should tell you what book(s) I have read to support my conclusion. Very well, here's the one I rely on the most: Joseph L. Allen, PhD., Exploring the Lands of the Book of Mormon, ISBN 6-87747-059-1, Orem, Utah, Publishers.
Others are on line (primarily video accounts of the Arabian trek and, specifically, Bountiful). I don't have the URLs handy, but you can search for "The waters of Moses" Laman Lemuel Nahom. I have another book I can't find right now, by a husband-wife team who went to Yemen and discovered a highly likely candidate for Bountiful.
Finally, Joseph Smith's words, i.e., "… the initial landing site of Lehi's colony, sometime after 600 B.C., was in Peru or Chile, thirty degree south latitude." Some people dispute this as authentic, but I've seen it in several articles and books some glowingly supportive, others, like Allen, disapprovingly.
Lehi
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3 hours ago, omegaseamaster75 said:
I have yet to see anything that even comes close to proving one shred of physical evidence that proved the veracity of the BOM.
Then you have not read Nibley's Lehi in the Wilderness. And that's, what, a half century old?
Since then Lehi's Arabian trek has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt. All the elements are there, Shazar, Nahom, Bountiful, even Laman/Lemuel, three days journey into the wilderness.
Lehi
Do we come close to worshipping Joseph Smith?
in LDS Gospel Discussion
Posted · Edited by LeSellers
Why do you ask?
Yes, as Doc&Cov 135 says, he has done more for the salvation of the world, Christ excepted, than any man who's lived on the planet: we see him as one of the most important persons to ever live on this earth. How that gets morphed by enemies of the Kingdom of God into our worshiping him is only a mystery if one doesn't understand how Satan works. He is the master of distortion, the king of twisting, and the deceiver par excellence.
It's not because of the Book of Mormon that we need his approval to enter the Kingdom, it's because he holds the keys under Peter (and he under Christ), and he (along with Twelve Apostles) will judge us prior to Peters' judging us (if that's the way you read the scriptures on the subject), and before we receive a final judgement from Jesus Himself. It's about keys, not books, it's about authority, not revelation. We're grateful for the revelation, we thank God for the books, but of all the things restored through Joseph Smith, it's the keys we are (or should be) more grateful for.
Lehi