CV75

Yes, in that they function as one God, the very Eternal Father of haven and earth. They do have separate roles (with the Holy Ghost), and Christ sometimes speaks by divine investiture of authority as well. I'm sure they have a broader council as well, depending on what they need to do.

https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Question:_Is_there_a_cave_in_the_Hill_Cumorah_containing_the_Nephite_records%3F https://josephsmithfoundation.org/hill-cumorah-cave/ I haven't found a first hand account, but I haven't tried very hard, either. The 2nd and 3rd hand accounts refer to reports of a vision for the basis of this.

I think it is used both ways simultaneously. "Metaphorically" because I do not understand the physical properties of this light, and "physically" because fundamentally everything is some kind of material (the immaterial does not exist).

Not familiar with any of that...! And I hope I'm not doing it!

I see God as all-powerful, which power comes from greater knowledge and love relative to our own, and in perfect balance. He is thus considerate of lesser beings and commits Himself to their obtaining a fulness of joy -- every kind of life in its sphere. Lesser beings can never rebel enough to take away what He has obtained, try as they might, and in trying find Him leveraging their efforts to His interests. By "sphere" I mean existence, or the extent to act (agency) and be acted upon (lack thereof). I do not understand how different forms of life came to have different spheres of existence, and why some things are purely acted upon, but it does seem to have something to do with the knowledge and love they possess (or lack thereof) and the balance therein, resulting in their level of self-comprehension (or none) and what becomes expressed in the spiritual and physical realms for us to perceive and interpret as space-time, forces, elements, microbes, plants, animals, people, etc. From our perspective, God has always existed, and from our perspective, we have always existed no matter when we began to perceive that we do. We may pass between many veils and estates, and not all of them are remembered, though we begin to see them as we become more like God.

There are many hypotheticals and unknowns here (bolded). I would handle this by getting more facts to make an informed proposal to bring to the Lord. Exactly what are the Church's "practice" and "the church line"? What is the purpose of the practice and the line? (italicized) -- I would need a clear reference for this (CFR from you, if you have one). Then I would decide whether I am seeking a moral or ethical resolution (secular) or a spiritual resolution (personal revelation) and propose and pray accordingly.

Of course, there is scripture and then there is the meaning and deeper meaning of the scripture. I don't believe the Lord holds His servants accountable for things they are not expected to believe, know or understand at the time of the mortal service, any more than He expected the brother of Jared to know whether He had flesh and blood. The brother of Jared was not expected to be correct in his knowledge and belief, and the scripture shows that the correct understanding is that the Lord would take upon Himself flesh and blood. "And he saith unto the Lord: I saw the finger of the Lord, and I feared lest he should smite me; for I knew not that the Lord had flesh and blood. And the Lord said unto him: Because of thy faith thou hast seen that I shall take upon me flesh and blood..." The Lord, because of his exceeding faith, clarified to him the difference between what he thought he saw (a living finger) and what he really saw (the future finger); the difference between the premortal Lord and the Lord in the tabernacle of His mortal ministry (verse 16).

Yes, I think there are instances where others have been resurrected after the Restoration of the sealing keys and yet prior to the Second Coming.

It seems to me that children of Adam and Eve were born, lived and died before Cain and Abel arrived on the scene, since Eve speaks of the joy of our redemption upon hearing the teachings of the angel and the witness of the Holy Ghost in Moses 5. She was likely not referring only to herself and her husband, and in knowing good and evil, had already witnessed death, not only of the sacrificed animals, but of some of their children. Abel could still have been placed as a ruler over his "elder brethren" as was Nephi, Joseph, etc. The idea of Cain never dying is interesting to me in that never dying amounts to never knowing the joy of redemption. At least the Three Nephites will someday "die" if only for a millisecond. If Elijah Able's temple work has been done, he could be exalted by now (why not?). And I can see him telling Cain in no uncertain terms, "Thanks alot for the bad rap!"

You can Google Darius Gray for more details on his experience and reaction, and his collection of reactions from other Black members. But here's an intro: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darius_Gray

Absolutely, which doesn't mean the dead one was a bad guy, just a prophet for his times whose views did not interrupt the kingdom moving forward in the least (and may have even averted unintended disaster!).

I joined the Church in 1975, and I recall a mixed bag of reaction (I lived in New York), but the vast majority welcomed it as a sign that the Restoration was advancing and a sign of the times, maybe "end times" even. I think most members at the time pretty much believed in / accepted the curse of Cain explanation and saw this as a positive sign. At no time did I hear anything like, "The Church isn't bigoted anymore." And I never heard the removal of the ban being touted as a social justice victory within the Church. This confirms to me that there are fundamental principles founding our Church and religion, and policies like the ban aren't one of them. But we live with them and are patient with them.

I haven't seen anyone accuse Brigham Young of heresy, not in this thread and in fact, I can't think of ever hearing anyone do that. Reproof is another example, in my mind, of living prophets not being bound to anyone's heavy expectations for doctrinal expositions on their policy or other pet peeves.

Will a version of this be published in the Liahona?

We are going to find many quotes on this topic. I take the living prophets’ disavowal and lack of acceptance a solid form of doctrine. The Lord’s servants often fall short of some people’s expectations on these and other points. That doesn’t man those expectations are correct, or correct for now. Perceived ambiguity can drive us to become as a little child as the Book of Mormon teaches in several places ("submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father."). It can help us understand the Book or Mormon’s counsel to do all things in wisdom and in order, and to be charitable toward our prophets’ weakness. Some wonderful godly traits can be developed within us in the perceived, so-called “absence of official doctrine.” ETA: I was just reading in John 7 that many people in Jesus' day insisted He was not the Messiah because they assumed (incorrectly) that He was from or born in Galilee, not Bethlehem. Nicodemus tried to reason with them with a more open-minded, "let's see" attitude. I would bet that those who leaned toward Nicodemus' understanding of the way God works were closer to conversion than the ones who held to their incorrect assumptions.

If the first part is subject to differing opinions, the second part would be too, so "how it happened" becomes indeterminate and a matter of opinion. But his statement is internally consistent from start to finish, so if you ant to believe it, as many did and do, it just needs to be squared with what modern prophets have said and done with the keys of the kingdom.

Alma 32 offers a way to sort through the “what ifs” and conclude for yourself what is real since all experience is ultimately processed “in your head”.

The Spirit of the Lord would be the Holy Ghost, witnessing of Jesus Christ who would have directed the subordinate angel to "run the projector." This subordinate could have been the translated Elijah, the connection being that the dream/vision set forth the application of the plan of redemption in terms of family relationships (Lehi preserving his immediate family). A further connection is that the dream came after the brass plates were retrieved and preserved, leading to the retrieval and preservation of Lehi's family, and according to the genealogy provided in the plates, the retrieval and preservation of his ancestors and descendants (as confirmed by Nephi's revelation about that), and an explanation as to why it was essential for the brass plates to be preserved.

I meant to get back to the scary word, "destined." It's not really scary: if all these things have been attached to us, and we to them, all along the tripartite model, then they/we are destined to remain together as we keep our estates (back to other thread ) The unworthy may have some or all of what they had before given to others, but that is no new principle. The interesting thing to me is the pattern or cycle of organization, dissolution, restoration and reorganization, or of birth, death, rebirth and progress, by virtue of the Atonement of Christ.

The other thread about keeping estates prompted to take another look at this, and I see there are no replies! So, I thought, "OK, it's been a few days; let's keep it weird!) D&C 77:2 says the beasts have sprits (and Genesis/Moses says that all things were organized spiritually before physically). D&C 77:3 says the beasts are organized into "orders" or "classes," which is an estate. And then a scary word is used: "destined." And verse 4 says they are full of knowledge (a beast?). And that they have power to act and not be acted upon (agency). Everyone who is exalted receives a white stone and lives on the Earth which has become a Urim and Thummim. So, things pertaining to kingdoms of higher order and all things pertaining to kingdoms of lower orders are known. What if exalted persons are but the head of a much larger organism that, by integrating other exalted persons, all forms of life, and all materials in all their forms and orders, shares knowledge and agency with all of life? I think we have a microcosm of that in the Garden of Eden: when Adam and Eve fell, so did the rest of their stewardship. As this stewardship will be resurrected and set in proper order, it also existed in spirit form (order, class, estate), and intelligence form (order, class, estate). Maybe we are all part of one organism, and all parts of the organism exist for individual and collective eternal felicity. Maybe we are more than who and what we think we are, and have been all along. After all, there are some 40 trillion microbes keeping our bodies strong and healthy, maybe they have been with us all along too, not to mention all other forms of life (some of which admittedly become deleterious since the fall, but that can be fixed) sharing and contributing to our intelligence -- that would be the intelligent thing to do !

@zil2 I like to use this earlier dictionary as well: A compendious dictionary of the English language : Noah Webster : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive, which includes property and rank. But your 1828 Webster's also has this reference to "rank": So, the first estate can be read as the "spirit" order or class of God's children living in His presence, and the second estate the class that receives bodies that are in mortality, not in His presence. "Estate" of course also entails a responsibility or a stewardship as a God-given possession. The idea of "keeping" your class I think has to do with keeping the associated covenants. For example, Satan is still a spirit, but not in the presence of God and without light and covenants. And keeping your possession means you can also add to it, such as being "added upon" between the first and second, and the immortal glory added to the next (third) state, which is post-resurrection. And then there's the home-run!

Maybe he repented Maybe it's a matter of "Keep your friends close; keep your enemies closer.” Maybe the Church finds it useful to have someone expert in the communication of those who would reject and fight the Church for political reasons alone.

I think they would all agree that progress entails more than added knowledge. I prefer to use “experience.” I think that early in the Restoration, so much spiritual knowledge came forth so quickly, this aspect of spiritual life took center stage. But there are many kinds of knowledge and many things to do with them as time and eternity roll on as we, even God, experience them. For example, with regards to His work and glory, more is better, and He gets it!

Yes, I meant the opposite, and these are good examples of what I am talking about.