Grunt

What, specifically, do you mean by more liberal? I'm not familiar with the community of Christ.

Very good point. I wouldn't want my children listening to that, either.

I often end a prayer with a plea for guidance or a clearer prompting of His desire, but the bulk of my prayers are almost always expressing thanks for the many blessings He has bestowed upon me. Even if I enter prayer with the intent of asking for help or "complaining", I very rarely get to the complaining part. By the time I'm done with being thankful, I probably unconsciously realize I don't have much to complain about.

This is still one of my favorite talks. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2013/10/come-join-with-us?lang=eng

I didn't see anything in those stories that troubled me. They didn't seem to condone the behavior, though they seemed to come close. My only issue is having someone openly, and willfully, living in sin share their story with the congregation. If we need to have people share their ALPHABET stories in church, why can't we have those that are at least attempting to live God's law?

Major pain in the tush....

I am. What else would an English major do? Panhandling in Tampa was already taken.

It’s why I went back for a degree in business.

I’m sorry you took offense where none was intended. Good luck with your journey, wherever it may lead you.

Could you be more specific? I’m honestly not sure what you’re referring to.

I'm not sure where I gave you the impression that I had a problem with ANYTHING you were doing. Your path is your path.

I'm not telling you anything. Words mean something. I was an English major, so I probably pay more attention to them than I should. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm trying to sincerely understand you because it doesn't make sense to me. I have an honest desire to understand you. To do that, I'm trying to understand what you mean by "dishonest" because to me someone who is dishonest intentionally tries to mislead people. You said you aren't saying it was intentional, so that's why I'm confused. Does that clear things up? I don't know why some people get defensive. I think some of the people you believe are being defensive aren't really, they are just trying to explain their view to you and are having trouble. I believe other people are defensive, but I don't know why. Maybe they take it personally? Maybe they don't know how to express what they're trying to say. I can't speak for them. I'm not at all defensive, though. Say what? I don't understand.

Because not everyone thinks there is a problem.

But you ARE guessing. Dishonest means INTENDING to mislead or cheat. It's INTENTIONAL part that I'm taking issue with. I think you're using the word "dishonest" when you mean to use the word "wrong"

Your comments ring blasphemous to me.

Could you try to answer the question, please? It actually affects how I view your issue. Do you feel the church INTENTIONALLY tried to deceive or mislead people, or do you believe the someone made a mistake or used poor judgment?

God chose these imperfect leaders. He would not let them lead the church astray. I think praying for the reversal of what is sin and thinking sin is the right thing to support is walking in dangerous territory.

I don't believe experiencing sin is at ALL necessary for progression. I think it is just the opposite. I believe resisting sin is necessary for our progression. Otherwise, we'd be looking at the commandments as a 'to do' list.

I enjoyed it. We discussed what "Endure to the end" meant and why it may be difficult for some.

I think people get hung up on their perceived definitions. For me, I see you say it's dishonest and it triggers me a little. I define dishonesty as a deliberate attempt to lie or mislead. Do you believe the church deliberately intended to mislead people or do you believe a person, or the church, just messed up or had poor judgment?

Sing. Again.

I think you'd be surprised to learn we DON'T all think the same way. We've just worked through things and come to an understanding, even if that understanding is that we don't agree. Take me for example: I got stuck on several church beliefs, almost to the point I was questioning truths I already knew. I prayed repeatedly for answers and swore I could never join the church because of these issues. I had many people try to help me understand, as people here are trying to help you. It didn't seem that way to me, either. I imagine they were as frustrated as I was, or as you are now. On my trip to San Diego, I met a young Sister Missionary at the temple. Because it was insisted that I stay until the Christmas lights were turned on, I had over an hour to kill. We talked about the Gospel, and I shared the difficulty I was having about several things. One of which was the King Follett discourse. I believe I even turned to this forum for help. The missionaries tried to help, but they didn't even know what King Follett Discourse was. One missionary, I forget now but I believe she was the brand new one, asked me if I ever prayed for peace instead of answers. We discussed it for a bit, but I didn't want peace. I wanted answers to something that was shaking my still undeveloped faith. I pondered it on the way home, and before I went to bed I prayed for God to grant me peace on topics I either didn't understand or took issue with, at least until such a time that He felt I was ready for the answers. I woke up the next morning without a worry about any of the things I was agonizing over for weeks. I wouldn't believe it if it hadn't happened to me. Since that time, I have come to receive answers to some of the problems I was having. Others are still out there, waiting for me to tackle them. I haven't come to accept them at all, I've just come to accept that I either haven't progressed enough to understand them OR God feels I'm not spiritually developed enough to. We're on this side of the veil. There are MANY things we just can't comprehend and likely won't until we return home. We may think we do, but how could we really? I guess I'll just leave you with that. I truly believe God doesn't want your spiritual development to stop because you don't understand something. You may be absolutely correct about your feelings towards that event. However, I trust God's plan and take my direction directly from him. My Stake President once said to me we have three methods to learn. One is the Scripture. One is the Prophet, Apostles, and modern revelation. The third is personal revelation. If one method seems to be telling you something you don't understand or believe to be false, test it with the other two.

Both sides of this discussion are getting a little "snotty". Sometimes it's best to detach yourself if you're losing objectivity.

He asks too much.

Never say never. I'm amazed at the things I now understand.