Grunt

This is where I was when I decided to be baptized due to an undeniable testimony of a few important things. Oddly, some of the things I set aside because I thought they were crazy I've since gained a testimony of. Others, I still think are pretty crazy.

If that was the case, I'd have been tossed out before I was baptized.

It says "Prophtet", not Prophet. The Prophtet probably did comment on it.

If your benchmark for worshipping God is a flawless history you're going to be disappointed.

I did. I felt the link I provided was a good explanation of the link you provided. If I come across anything else I'll share it if you want. I really liked the link you shared. It caused me to go research how that book of church history was written, why it remains unchanged with errors, and what other documents were written to expand upon that early history. Thank you for sharing it. I'm sorry if you feel attacked. I certainly didn't mean it that way. Sometimes I get frustrated when I see something that is plain as day to me, yet can't explain it. Now I know how my chemistry teacher must have felt.

Did you read the link I provided you?

The church history DOESN'T say he said it. That's what I'm telling you. I provided you a link that SHOWS the church said he didn't say it. I provided a link where the church says it was a quote taken from a third party journal and that quote shouldn't have been included because it confuses people. Did you not read the citation I provided? They go very in-depth explaining this.

The church history DOESN'T say he said it. The church history quotes from the journal of a third person.

When I get stuck I find it helpful to back up to my last known truth. Is the Book of Mormon true? You've stated you know this to be so. Then if that is true, then Joseph Smith is the Prophet and this is Christ's true church. The rest is just branches from that. Man is fallible. You'll find errors in the church all the time. A General Authority was excommunicated. Does that mean you can't trust the church? Of course not. It means men are fallible, and as much as this is Christ's church, it is carried out by man. My name was spelled wrong on my baptismal program. Worse yet, my children's birthdays are wrong in the church record. The OFFICIAL CHURCH RECORD! Does that mean I can't trust the church? Of course not. It means the imperfect men who carry out God's work here on Earth are just that......imperfect.

If it's a massive issue for you, only one person is going to help you with this. You'll have to pray to receive the answers you want. You've made it an issue in your own mind and only you can fix that through prayer, study, and discussions with Mormons you know.

It bothers you that a quote taken from a diary is in a comprehensive church history. Why? What about it bothers you? The fact that the quote is in there or the fact that the original quote, not made by the church, is misleading? Either way, what does that have to do with the Book of Mormon and your relationship with Christ? You started this thread having issues with Joseph Smith, thinking he claimed to have translated the plates. Now you learn that he apparently never claimed that so you have an issue with the church? As a new member, one thing I've learned about the church is they record EVERYTHING, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Sometimes it's very difficult to sift through all of it. I was driving myself nuts until I decided to focus on one spoke of the wheel at a time.

If I were not legally married to my SO and had several children, would the church allow me to be baptized?

Personally, It's been my experience that usually when I feel this way the other parties weren't even aware it happened and things were back to normal immediately. Bring it up with your Bishop. I'm sure you'll feel better after talking with him about it.

It just hasn't been proven false, though. As I posted above, that section on the Kinderhook Plates was added to the book over 50 years after the Prophet passed. Were there false plates? Yes. Was the Church extremely excited about the prospect of them? Yes. Was there fanfare about their future translation and that printing? Yes. Is there any record that the Prophet claimed to have translated them and printed that translation? Not to my knowledge. It seems like there was much interest, as there should have been. Then there was absolutely nothing. Maybe the Prophet was fooled by the plates. Maybe he tried to translate them and couldn't. Maybe that, believing the plates to be true, was cause for contention and disbelief of his status as a called Prophet. Maybe they just set it all aside in hopes it would go away after they couldn't do anything with them. We could speculate all day. However, what does seem to be true is that the plates were false. No translation of the plates is to be found. The plates themselves were allowed to be taken from Church custody without anyone seeming to care. The plates seem irrelevant to everyone until long after Smith's death, when the "HAHAHA" talk started.

The Church reports that quote, while it appears to be written by Joseph Smith, was ACTUALLY an excerpt from the journal of William Clayton. There is no known evidence, to my knowledge, that the Prophet ever put forth a translation of the fake plates. https://www.lds.org/ensign/1981/08/kinderhook-plates-brought-to-joseph-smith-appear-to-be-a-nineteenth-century-hoax?lang=eng

Sin is sin. While some sins aren't as severe as others, they are still sins. I completely and wholeheartedly agree that we should follow the spirit, not judge, and love everyone. It's hard for me at times, but I strive towards it. However, my issue isn't with that stance or philosophy. My issue is the manifestation of it. This is work we need to do internally as members to soften our hearts and be more welcoming. I don't think that necessarily includes having church time devoted to people willfully living sinful lives telling the congregation that it's ok to do so or how we should accept it. Honest question: would the same ward open its doors to non-members and single people of opposite sexes living in violation of the Law of Chastity so they could tell us it's normal?

I can't believe the boys and I watched the whole thing.

I'd be interested in seeing the video. I get nervous when anything takes place that gives the impression of support or condoning sinful behavior.

Whenever people belittle my beliefs based on their "facts" I always just smile. What will we learn tomorrow that upsets our "facts" of today?

Thank you for that correction!

I agree that he’s under no obligation to tell anyone what he does or doesn’t receive for money, nor how he receives it. However, God knows. I disagree with your assessment that tithing is paid on “what you earn”. Tithing is paid on your “increase”. What that means is between you and God. If it means “income” to you, I’m in no position to challenge that, nor would I ever declare that you are wrong. I don’t hold that authority. I WILL, however, say that is not my prayerful understanding of it. That understanding applies to me only. I have no revelation that determines how it should be applied to you. Again, I don’t hold that authority. I would suggest the OP continue to pray on the subject and seek counsel from those in authority if he desires it. Sometimes we struggle with topics because we KNOW what we should do, yet search for ways not to do it because that path seems impossible. Reading my missionary thread will show you I have a personal testimony that this is true.

Triggered

I think that is my exact point. I too agree with President Woodruff's sentiment. That was one of the reasons I spent so much time studying before I accepted baptism. I had to know this to be true, because I knew there would be things that would be asked/required of me that would prove difficult. Fasting wasn't one of them, I fast all the time for health benefits AND because I'm too lazy to cook for myself when my wife is away, but tithing is still a tough pill for me to swallow. If the Law stated "10% unless there is something else you'd rather buy" then it would be an easy decision. If fasting ISN'T a directive, then I wouldn't give it as much though immediately, I'd just do it or not as I saw fit. If it IS a directive, as I understood it to be (without any research) then the suggestion made earlier to use our judgment whether or not to follow it seems odd.

This is pretty much what I've been trying to tell you since you first came to this forum. I'm just not as kind, patient, or eloquent as most of the members here are.

I did a cursory search on LDS.org and didn't see fast offerings mentioned in the interview questions. It may have been my imagination or more likely part of a side-bar conversation that stemmed from one of my convoluted answers.