Midwest LDS

I know. That secret snack stash in the clerk's office for long days is going to be especially controversial.

God bless you sister! You are trying very hard to get your life back in order, and God loves you for the effort. Do not fear speaking to the bishop. Satan is working really hard to make you feel fear, because as long as he can keep you from talking to the bishop he can keep you feeling miserable. Remember what God tells us in 2 Timothy 1:7 "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind." Once you speak to the bishop, all of the fear that you are feeling right now, 24 hours a day, will wash away. I can't tell you what the bishop will ask you to do, that is up to him and what the Holy Ghost inspires him to do, but I promise you that nothing he asks you to do will be as hard as carrying around your fear is right now. God will be with you sister. Take heart and know that you can be forgiven, you will be able to marry in the temple in the future once you get this taken care of, and the Blood of Jesus Christ will wash you clean of all your stains if you allow it too. I'm praying for you, and everyone here is rooting for you!

Here's the thing @Vort. Obviously I disagree with you on this one issue (I was serious when I said usually we are on the same side), but I did not intend to offend you (not by my beliefs, but the way I presented them). I was in the middle of doing multiple things while I was responding to you and I'm not as good at writing out my thoughts as I am at speaking them. Unless I'm completely off base, I apologize if you felt I was questioning your intelligence. At the end of the day, even if we are on different sides of an idea, we are still brothers in Christ and I should have been more careful with my word choice and my presentation of my thoughts.

Neither am I. If you recognized my wording it comes directly from the Declaration of Independence which credits the Creator with granting these rights as do I(life liberty pursuit of happiness etc.) I find it amusing that you credit 18 year olds with the maturity to learn how to kill someone, lead men in combat, and make life and death decisions on a split second basis, but not with the ability to decide who has the best tax policy. I did not use it as an us vs them example. I used it as a generic example. You spend way too much time overanalyzing a rather basic idea I dropped in a discussion with a completely random person on the internet. I'm not setting up an us vs them I was just describing politicians in Washington. If it makes you feel better, I'll say those young women in Washington the pronoun is irrelevant to me. If anyone is setting up an us vs. them argument it's you by claiming that 18 year olds should happily march off and die for those people who understand politics better than they do anyways. You do not "gut my argument". Maybe in your own mind you are, but your arguments are merely a collection of non sequiturs, strawmen, and goal post moving. You still haven't answered the basic crux of the question. Why should 18 year olds be denied a voice in the political process? Your argument centers around their emotional immaturity. I've acknowledged you may have a point but you refuse to acknowledge that I have a point about them being eligible for the draft. You claim the draft isn't in effect so it shouldn't matter just like there are no concentration camps, and yet there are lists of names and addresses set up so that young men can be called at a moments notice into the military There are no concentration camps or plans to set them up again (at least in this country, and God willing there won't be).

Not true. Selective service is the draft. It hasn't been used since Vietnam but the draft is still very much in effect if the government decides to reinstate it.

You know @Vort I'm typically on your side when it comes to political issues, so your attempt to make me sound like some crazed liberal is amusing ☺. I said "old guys" just as a generic example, I could use specific politicians I just didn't want to. To the rest of your arguments, I reject your assertion that my opinion is an appeal to emotion. You need to be 18 to sign up for or be drafted for the military. We don't use 14 year olds to fight, and the fact tht 4 year olds pay taxes is irrelevant, you are creating strawmen and moving the goalpost. I do know what a right is the question is do you? It sounds like you don't. The right to life is the ultimate right. If a government has the right to order me to give it up in the name of some political objective (whether that objective is stopping Nazi Germany, holding back Communism in Vietnam, or keeping Iran in check) then I have the right to have a say in whether or not we pursue those objectives. Life is the ultimate right along with liberty, property, and the pursuit of happiness. I don't necessarily disagree with you about 18 year olds not being 100% emotionally mature, and if we change our draft laws or laws about when you can sign up for the military than I'm ok changing the age we gain the right to vote. Until then no.

I decided to put it on my arm instead. (Pinochet for those who don't know).

Also good points.

Not really. Wars are merely politics by other means as described by Clausewitz. If some old guys in Washington have the right to send me (generic) to my death, I should have to right to choose which old guys are in charge. My (generic) life is at stake. Unless and until we want to change things up like @NeuroTypical and @Just_A_Guy have suggested, 18 year olds deserve the right to help shape the political landscape.

I guess you'll have to turn in your Any Rand award for Libertarian purity. Don't worry though! We Military Industrial Complex fanboys welcome you with open arms😉

Generally I agree with you. However, sometimes the need is so great that in order to protect the country everyone needs to participate (World War 2 for example). I'm ok with a draft in those circumstances, as long as there are protected options for conscientious objectors.

I disagree. As long as 18 year olds can potentially be drafted they deserve the vote. It's beyond unreasonable for you (generic) to tell a person "you have no say in the political arena, but here's a rifle go charge into no man's land and die for it". Now if you (specific) want to talk about rolling back the age a person can be drafted or make it so if you serve or are asked to serve in the military you get the vote but everyone else has to be older (21 to 25) that's different and I can see arguments for those viewpoints.

Including you apparently. I told you this new tattoo looked awful, but you just wouldn't stop shouting "Feel the Bern!"

Fine, as long as it's Martinelli's and I get to dine too.

Lol I'm fine with change just not whining😉

Perish the thought. Why would I spend hours of my life doing something fun and enjoyable when I can sit at home staring at the wall and patting myself on the back about how I don't soil myself with children's interests?😉

That isn't what I said. You can't change other people by complaining about them. The only person you can change is yourself. Now an article where the author talks about ways they've changed some of their own behaviors and the positive effects it's had for them at church? That would be a good read, and a whole lot more effective than the article here. Not only that, just as I mentioned any church, ours included, will always be full of individual people who fall short of who they should be, sometimes in really big ways. Always. The question is, do you learn to love them anyways, and work to treat them as Christ would, or do you grind your teeth and whine about "church culture" and overlook your own sins and imperfections? You can only change yourself.

I dislike articles like this because they come off as whiny. They always focus on the idea of "if only everyone changed to fit my own view of things then the church would be great". It's just silly. The Church of Jesus Christ in every dispensation has been filled with mortals. That means that since Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden, toes have been stepped on, people have been cold when they should have been kind, people have been nosy when they shouldn't have been, and rock steady members have apostatized and made others question their testimony. While I think honest attempts to improve ourselves are important, by complaining about everyone church wide instead of working on yourself, you guarantee nothing will happen. You can't change "church culture". You can change yourself, and while there are always exceptions and always will be until Christ comes again, most members are genuinely decent people who are trying to do better, so maybe try cutting each other some slack instead of complaining that everyone isn't perfect. Just my two cents.

This! The Lord intends for us to consult with him on an individual basis in order to determine what "10% of our increase" means to us. If he meant it to be set in stone, he would have told us specifically that he means gross or net. I have felt inspired at different times of my life to pay gross and to pay net. Both times I made my decision based on the guidance I was receiving from the Holy Ghost.

That would be a nice change. I'd love to see the Old Republic in it's prime, large forces of Jedi and Sith battling for dominance, and an excellent redemption arc story.

I enjoyed it. It wasn't perfect, and it demonstrated why you needed to have one director the whole time instead of switching back and forth. But I liked it.

Fair points, I'm just always skeptical of Anti Mormons when they try to paint themselves as 100% involved in a righteous cause. You are correct, if this was any other institution this fact wouldn't bother me.

Fair enough, which I'm sure is why the government offers it to encourage people to turn state's evidence. But it does tend to reduce someone's credibility, especially since the church is so scrupulous about following the law of the land.

Oh and FYI it seems that Nielsen, the whistleblower, is seeking a percentage of these supposed back taxes as a whistleblowers award. I'm sure everything he is doing is totally above the board and in no way is he thinking of trying to line his own pockets and blacken the church's reputation at the same time /s. For anyone who is curious, here is the church's response https://www.deseret.com/utah/2019/12/17/21026182/mormon-lds-church-washington-post-whistleblower-irs-complaint-taxes-ensign-peak

It's always funny to me when people think we will be shocked when we find out how much money the church has. 1. I'm glad the church has a large stockpile of money. It means they are managing the funds they receive well and that there is plenty of money to help the work of God continue. 2. Why would the church's wealth affect my desire to pay tithing? I, and all faithful members, pay tithing to follow God's commandments. Nothing else matters in that regard. This article just shows that those without faith really don't understand what they criticize.