Midwest LDS

Oh I understand (and don't worry we were teenagers and I don't know that person anymore so they could be a much better person now). My guess is my experience is common where one particular religious group heavily outnumbers another. And you are right, many LDS have made similar mistakes. You would not believe my shock and horror when I heard over the pulpit at General Conference that some LDS families wouldn't let their kids play with non members. My family and I had been shunned and my sisters had lost friends in the exact same way by Evangelicals in our neighborhood growing up. It's unfortunately human nature to react strongly against an "other" in their presence. But my point stands, it would be nice for the Evangelicals in my neck of the woods to start acting like Christians. I know many good Evangelicals now, but there are still plenty that seem to take glee in making our lives miserable, at least here in the Midwest.

I don't need to be accepted as Orthodox by the NCC (or any other Protestant or Catholic organization). We disagree doctrinally, and that's okay. What I wish Evangelicals would quit doing is denying my personal relationship with Jesus Christ. It took me years to get over the defensiveness that would well up in me when someone told me they were Evangelical. I have been told, in the most extreme and gleeful detail since I joined the church when I was 8, how I and my family were going to burn in Hell. I have been mocked, derided, and in one extreme case even threatened by Evangelicals. When I have tried to share my sincere faith in Christ with them, not out of hope of converting them, just to show them that we have some things in common, best case I have been dismissed out of hand (oh you don't believe in the real Christ) or once again threatened with hellfire and damnation. It's taken me many years and the influence of better Evangelicals then the ones I mentioned to not immediately avoid anyone who says they are Evangelical like the plague. If they (and I say this meaning generally there are obviously many exceptions) would just quit treating me like a demon with a pentagram carved into my forehead, or you know act like actual Christians towards me, that would be nice.

Agreed, they really were rushing into disaster. This movie was the first one to show that well, especially how Admiral Nagumo, despite being a skilled sailor, was out of his depth being in command of a carrier fleet. We got pretty lucky too when our dive bombers followed a destroyer out hunting a sub back to the fleet. Not to mention those poor torpedo bombers, God rest their brave souls, who made it possible for our dive bombers to succeed by drawing all of the fighters down after them. I was really happy the movie showed their heroic sacrifice made sure they weren't forgotten. By the way what was the name of the book you mentioned? I'd be interested in reading it.

Midway was a great movie. They actually kept it (mostly) historically accurate. Which for a Hollywood production is pretty dang good! Some of the crazier events in the movie really occured, even some things that I thought were dramatic nonsense which shows that truth is sometimes stranger than fiction. It's not perfect, some of the actors did better than others, and there were a few scenes that felt a little choppy that needed more on screen development, but overall it was a very good historical flick.

Better than having voted for Kucinich in the last 4 elections like some people I know@MormonGator

Looks good to me. I would add several more pies to the list (Strawberry Rhubarb, Mixed Berry, Chocolate Pecan) and maybe make the Turkey smoked instead of oven baked. Otherwise my list is the same as yours.

I wouldn't say following the rules doesn't matter. You need to follow them to reach the Celestial Kingdom after all! But remember God set things up specifically because he knew his children would fall short, specifically the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. The eternal rewards are the same for all who choose to follow his commandments and who repent of their sins. You're not a sucker. All of those people living away from God are suffering or will suffer the consequences of their sins. Would you trade the knowledge of where you stand with God for a beer or the chance to sleep around or the chance to embezzle money from your employer etc? There is a penalty for not living according to the will of God (broken marriages, STD's, broken friendships, destruction of health and self worth etc.) even if eternal forgiveness is gained. And don't let God's mercy detract from the joy you gain from living God's commandments!

I understand and I feel as you do. I also have a myriad of weaknesses and failings, but I know this is Christ's restored church, if I stop going that won't change. It's kept me active personally, but I know some people struggle with that. I'm just grateful God takes the long view, and many people like that guy you met will one day use that core of testimony still burning in their hearts to help them overcome their weaknesses and come back.

I understand, interactions like that can be confusing! Some people still have an abiding testimony of the truthfulness of the gospel even if they are struggling to live it. It's like how a lifetime smoker may struggle to drop the habit, but still truthfully tell their children that their lives will be better if they don't smoke. I've met many less active members that still hold a testimony of the truth of Christ's restored gospel in their hearts. All of us fall short of the glory of God, and even if someone is not actively trying to live that gospel right now, it doesn't mean they don't want to or that they will never come back and try again.

You're right. Is that why I didn't understand your 4 hour rant on the truth found in this book lying around your compound?

I'll check it out.

We are a big church, and I think the easy answer to this is of course some people testify just to fit in. That kind of attempted conformity is going to be present in every group religious or not. I wouldn't use the term compelled though, no one holds a gun to anyone's head and forces them to stand up and testify. That being said, some of us really know the Church is the Church of Jesus Christ restored in it's fullness. I have a sure testimony of this through the power of the Holy Ghost and I don't need to see God or the Celestial kingdom to have this knowledge. You (generic) don't have to believe me, you could even suppose it's a piece of undigested cheese causing delusions, but I have a responsibility to share that knowledge so that you (generic) can hear it and seek your own knowledge from the Holy Ghost. Perhaps we can quibble about what we mean by knowledge, but it doesn't change what has been revealed to me or other members. Also, testifying of Christ's church is testifying of Jesus Christ (at least in my experience, you are testifying about his works). Some testimonies could be clearer about this, and we definitely could do with less travelogues, but I don't think there is an imbalance in testifying about Christ.

I'm sorry you are having such a rough time and I understand why you are upset. I am praying for you and I hope you will be able to find some peace and strength from the Holy Ghost.

Fair enough, but that was said later in life and it's always easy to claim "I didn't really mean it that way" after the fact. I never thought Wallis was pro-Nazi, just someone who wanted to marry a prince.

Ah yes the woman who brought down a king. Just as well considering his later pro-Nazi statements though so alls well that ends well.

Lol there's a name I haven't heard in a while. Good reference. And you're right, as I'm usually the person boring someone else with my historical jokes, such as that picture I used higher on the thread. I definitely earned a taco for that one.

Besides this is a picture of me on a pleasant afternoon, I'm no Socialist

Hey only one of us has donated to the DNC buddy boy and it ain't me!😉

No it's not. God does not want you to go to hell, and you won't be doing yourself or your children any favors by not completing the repentance process. Remember what God tells us in John 3:17 "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." Repentance can be tough, but God sent his Son Jesus Christ into the world to save you as an individual, as well as all of us. His whole goal is to bring you eternal life, not have you suffer in misery for the rest of your mortal life. The only person who is telling you that you deserve eternal misery is the devil. Tell him to go back to hell where he belongs, take a deep breath, and find some time to tell your husband. It will be difficult and he may well be very hurt. But you cannot build a solid relationship on lies. I would rather my wife tell me something like this so we could work it out and come out stronger on the other side. Especially since it did not get physical, I think if your husband is truly the great guy you think he is he will be able to forgive you in time. Talk to your bishop too. You will be amazed at the feeling of relief you receive the moment you talk about this to an authorized servant of God. God is waiting to forgive you sister. The question is will you let him? I know you can do this and I will be praying for you.

For me when I say Church in this instance, I'm refering to the authority to act in God's name, so the priesthood. The insitution itself changes frequently and often as we receive revelation from God so it is not permanent in itself.

While I don't neccessarily disagree with what you said, and I understand that you said this was hypothetical, I would like to make 2 points. First, Section 138 is canonized scripture and it's very clear that the church will not fall into apostasy. You did not mention that part of my argument so I assume you agree with it. Second, while my quotation was not an original part of Official Declaration 1, the church chose to include it there. They, and by extension the Lord, must consider it scripture whether or not it was originally in the Deseret News or not. Apostasy is not the members of the church doing something wrong. We have been lead by continuous revelation since God spoke to Adam, and I know we as members fall short of the glory of God regularly and frequently. Apostasy is the loss of priesthood authority on the Earth, as happened after every other dispensation. We either believe that is true, or President Woodruff and President Smith were lying, or at least just being optimisic in their opinion. If they are prophets though, and I believe they are, we have been promised by God that the church will not be taken away from the Earth again. I said in my original post that individuals and groups of individuals will fall away. That's always been the case. But the church will not be taken away. If it falls apart, this was never God's church in the first place, and we all might as well eat, drink, and be merry because no one has the truth (something I do not believe to be the case just speaking hypothetically.)

Amen brother. We have been told that the church, as a whole, will not apostasize in this generation. Doctrine and Covenants 138:44: "44 Daniel, who foresaw and foretold the establishment of the kingdom of God in the latter days, never again to be destroyed nor given to other people;" President Jospeh F. Smith received this revelation, as have many others going back to Joseph Smith. Individuals will apostasize, even large groups of individuals. But God will not allow his prophet, as imperfect an individual as he may be, to lead us astray. Wilford Woodruff said as much in Official Declaration 1 "The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty." Either we believe these men are prophets and President Woodruff was telling us the mind of God, or we don't and our church is no different then any other. FWIW this does not apply to the original discussion about whoever let that men's choir preach as that's not a church wide thing.

That's hilarious lol!

Lol oh yeah that's me. Salt of the Earth, fix things with my hands sort of guy😉... Sounds awful😁

Fair enough I'm sure we will see him again. And it's not like any of the other Democrats are any better.