Midwest LDS

A current picture of @MormonGator with some friends

I know, I know. It's basically America's basement where we keep our undesirables locked up away from normal society. But, very occasionally, one of them isn't as terrible as the others😉

I agree. We have a family friend in Florida, a Catholic, who has stayed celibate his entire life in order to follow the Saviour's commandments. I have great respect for him, and anyone else, who strives to follow the commandments despite powerful desires to do otherwise.

You and are of the same mind on this subject.

That's a fair point. Christ was tempted in the Wilderness, but did not sin. Yet even lusting after a woman in your heart is sinful. There must be some degree of difference between being tempted and sinning in one's thoughts (although my life would be a whole lot better with the person who does not act on his murderous desire of course☺)

I agree that temptation alone does not constitute a sin, and your example of the Lord in the wilderness shows that. But I believe it is a sin to purposesly put oneself into a tempting situation. While Same Sex attraction is no sin, purposesly putting yourself in a situation where you are going to face urgent and daily temptation to break the LOC seems like it would be. Also the church did not say Same Sex marriage was no longer a sin, they said it was no longer apostasy there is a difference. I think in our lives we should strive to avoid the gray areas rather than seek them out to justify potentially sinful behavior.

I agree that's fair. It just seems to me that avoiding the very appearance of evil is important as well, and avoiding dangerous situations like Joseph did when he was tempted by Potiphars wife. If you are in a tempting situation, far better to flee than place yourself in danger trying to prove how strong you are.

Yep I agree, it takes effort to believe in God, but 0 effort to believe in Lincoln. If you put some skin in the game as you say, we'd probably have groups of Lincoln nay sayers, arguing that you can't prove the truthfullness of the Gettysburg Address.

That seems to me though, the same as an unmarried, unrelated man and woman living together. I've seen people denied recommends for that, even when they claim there is no sexual relationship involved. You would be putting yourself in a hugely, tempting situation if you were attracted to the same sex, married someone of that sex, and lived together. Is that truly any different from my earlier example? To me it seems like being an alcoholic and keeping an open bottle of whiskey you can sniff occasionaly, but swearing you'll never drink it. Some might be able to do it, most will fail.

100% agree

I don't think we are that far off. My only contention is that the historical (in this case) feels more tangible. I'm not saying it's more authortative than religious evidence, just that it feels that way to many so in that sense I agree with you. But if there was no perceived difference between the two, we'd have a lot more actively religious people in the world than we actually do.

Gotcha that makes sense. At the end of the day most history, especially pre photography, has to be taken with at least a degree of faith. Generally we just have writings, many of which are biased, and archelogical remnants. While we can hold some of these things in our hand, I've touched the doors of the ancient Roman Senate for example, did Julius Caesar actually have as great an impact on history as the writings claim? Many things, even in the sciences or liberal arts, are taken on faith. But the fact that there are actual artifacts to study does tend to differentiate it from the evidence generally used for religious purposes (for example I can't go look at the Gold Plates. I believe the witnesses who saw it and Joseph Smith's testimony about them, but I can't go to a museum and pick them up, wheras I can visit Abraham Lincoln's house in Springfield). That's the chief difference between the two in my mind, or at least why it's easier for many people to accept that Lincoln was an actual president than that Jesus Christ is their actual Savior.

I'm sorry I don't understand, what about President Lincoln?

Interesting I had not thought of it that way before. I suppose the difference for me is that I can buy a ticket to China and see it whenever I want whereas short of dying I can't go physically see God. But I accept your argument that like any truth discovering God requires the same amount of faith.

Fair enough. I meant that it is an individual experience that comes through personal study and prayer rather than one that can simply be read about in a book or by watching a video (although it does partially come from reading a book I suppose☺).

I suppose that is true and you make a good point. It's what makes missionary work so difficult, since we rely on subjective truths that only an individual can experience. While that's just the way it has to be, since God has set things up so we must live by faith, I'm not surprised Satan uses similiar (though false) methods to lead his followers astray.

I agree, although I think there are some additional causes to add to your list. These people paid, in some cases as you pointed out, tens of thousands of dollers and a huge amount of time only to end up as sex slaves. Many of them probably kept telling themselves that, with every humiliation they had to endure, that it must get better if I just stick it out a little longer. They were just like the gambler mortgaging his house because he just needs one more lucky roll of the dice to win back his losses. Our struggle as humans to admit that we were tricked is something these con men and cultists play on as well. I was watching American Greed the other day, as an old woman described bankrupting herself by sending hundreds of thousands of dollars to Jamaican lottery scammers, long after anyone would know they are not getting anything back. Sometimes it's so humiliating to admit that we have been fooled, that we stay in a horrific situation holding onto false hope because it feels better than saying "I've been a fool". I bet some of these people fell into that category as well.

First of all, take a deep breath. You both made a serious mistake, but the fact that you want to repent of it is absolutely a wonderful thing. Jesus Christ loves you and your husband. Repentance makes you feel better. The only one who wants you to be terrified about seeing the bishop is Satan. If he can trick you into being too scared to go, he can keep you under his thumb. Don't let him fool you! Your bishop will guide you through the repentance process. While I can't tell you for sure what you will have to do to be fully forgiven, only your bishop can do that, I doubt it will lead to excommunication for what you did. If someone comes in wanting to repent and showing true remorse, any penalties given tend to be much lighter, than if they arrogantly reject the process the Bishop presents to them. Also, and this is important, the moment you start talking to him relief will flow over you. That burden you have been carrying for 2 years willl start to ease, and you will feel God's love flowing over you. Remember what God tells us about forgiveness in Isaiah 1:18: "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool." Jesus Christ loves you sister. He loves your husband. You guys made a serious mistake, but he is waiting to forgive you. God bless the both of you.

I have to admit, those are all cool but the Purple Worm is my favorite.

I'm sorry you have faith struggles in your family (I have been there and feel your pain). But you can still work on yourself and pray for a softening of heart in those who are uninterested at the moment. You never know when someone may change. One of the Seventy talked about a brother who changed right before he passed on and received the Melchizedek Priesthood 5 hours before he passed away.

The prophet lovingly telling us that time is running out and to repent and draw closer to Christ now. I felt a special dose of the Holy Spirit when he said that abd felt a renewed desire to make sure my family and I are ready for the Second Coming, no matter what sode of the veil I'm on when it happens.

Definitely feeling a strong need to repent, and be more active spiritually and physically after President Nelson's talk.

Elder Anderson's talk was really good, it really resonated with me. Elder Holland's testimony of Christ was also powerful.

Here you go https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/first-presidency-messages-general-conference-leadership-session-april-2019

Thanks, I had not thought of that, it's a good example.