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I don't think the Church would even consider saying there is no Jesus Christ. As for the Martians, well, considering they already did that with the Senate and Congress.... If MormonGator were to become the next apostle, I would honor our Lord's wishes and sustain MormonGator. Then I'd go have a cold beer. I'd need it!

I must confess that I am rather fond of "To Catch a Predator", myself.

I asked that because I want to know. It's not a red herring. Does disagreeing with a question make the question invalid or does it instead hide the answer? Grunt, it is not a silly what if. Let me ask it this way, since it seems to offend people- If the LDS Church were to "legalize" homosexual fornication, and make it permissible for homosexuals to get temple recommends and hold positions in branch/ward-stake-area leadership.... Would that make the church more of a True Church, or less of one? And why? How would it affect you and the roles you currently have in church? I ask this because now homosexuality is a big mess, nationally. And back in the 70's race was a big mess as well, and the Church opened its doors to non-whites. What keeps that from happening now? And if it did, what would you do? Do not be offended by the question.

I did anyway. 😉

If.... The LDS were to "legalize" homosexuality and make it permissible for homosexuals to get temple recommends and hold positions in branch/ward-stake-area leadership.... Would that make the church more of a True Church, or less of one? And why? How would it affect you and the roles you currently have in church? I ask this because now homosexuality is a big mess, nationally. And back in the 70's race was a big mess as well, and the Church opened its doors to non-whites. What keeps that from happening now? And if it did, what would you do?

They're called Muslims, Vort. Not all Muslims do that, but there's those that do. And it's stuff like that that politicians use to push for more regulation. Like banning Burqas.

Without reading the 250 trillion messages on 7 pages.... Being that the church IS the True Church, it is the person that must change. You change yourself to fit the needs of the church. You cannot expect the church to change for you. If it were to, then it no longer is the True Church. Do you get what I mean?

This kind of a problem has come up in discussions over the past few weeks in church. The church IS the true church, it is a perfect church, but the people within are imperfect. And just as the people are, so will be the bishopric, stake presidency and area leadership. Even if you follow it all the way to the very top with President Nelson, even he is imperfect. And you will find leaders that will hide and protect others, when they are accused of committing a crime on behalf of the church. It is sad, but it is true. Even sadder that so many people see church leaders as being nearly perfect in themselves.

Here's some of that religion stuff from India.... "Girl With Disability Gang-Raped By 22 Men For 7 Months In India, Police Say" -- https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/disabled-girl-repeatedly-gang-raped-by-22-men-in-india_us_5b4f33b6e4b0b15aba8a483d

I have to correct myself. Beaner is a slur for farmhands. My grandpa was a farmer, did more than beans, but he picked. Lots of times. In fact I did as well in my youth. So technically speaking, I'm also a beaner. I don't care, call it what you want.

You're still stuck on that Insane Clown Posse music, aren't you? There really only so much you can listen to Hokus Pokus and The Neden Game before you start singing it to yourself....

Your call.

Pardon me, but as much as we may welcome them into our communities, they still need to adapt. If I immigrated to Saudi, I would have to learn to accept their culture into my life and become part of the community. Likewise here. Which means, sadly, changing part of their life. In college a couple years ago I encountered a muslim kid that was talking about how it's ok to rape women. After all, that's how young men get laid, where he's from. No, that's not how we do it here. Here doing that gets people either in serious trouble or in seriously bad shape in the ER. Then he asked about livestock. Sheep & goats. My boss runs sheep. ANd if my boss catches anyone pursuing a relationship with his stock, man that's a really bad idea. But you see, the kids don't get that. They come here and expect to be able to do everything here they do there. I already stood up, twice, between the Islamic kids and the local high schoolers that wanted to hurt them. They look at it as, you come here as guests. We may be your hosts and you may not like us , but you will respect us and our space as your hosts.

Which is a slur. But so is "beanner". Well....my grandfather, who was white, was a beanner. He picked beans for a living when he was younger. He didn't care, he did what he had to so he would have money coming in. It's all a matter of how it's used.

What I found is when I always pay tithe, no matter what, God will stand by me, so long as I am doing what is right. Opportunities to make life better may not be the greatest, but they will be there. And in a worse case scenario where you need help, share your concerns with your Bishop, and he will guide you. Instead, trying to find a justification for not paying tithes is dishonest. I suggest that you go read Gospel Principles, lessons 32, 35, 31, & 26. In that order. Then pray about it.

What culture are you or she from that does this, again? Honeslty, if it leads to temptation which in turn can lead to sinful conduct, shouldn't you both avoid it until after you are married?

IIRC isn't the mere thought of having tea in itself sinful?

I never could understand why people do the lip service thing. Maybe it's because I've been on the receiving end of that, and man does it suck! When I say suck, that is such a polite word for it. I have had to ask for help, but I also do not hesitate to give it when it's needed. Fella in town couldn't get anyone to help him with his car. It broke down and he wanted to get it home. So I went and looked at it with him. Ok, nothing I can do about it. Just the way it is. Some cars are so broken, you might as well send it to the junkyard. And that car was broke! But it didn't stop me from offering to help him when he asked. Ok, I drove 18 miles one way. So what? I remember when people have gone out of their way to help me. When I am in need, people find a way to help me. When I see others in need, I step up to plate. I feel sorry for those that give lip service. IMO they can count on that when they go to Heaven. Matthew 25:40-45, KJV 40. And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42. For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43. I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45. Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

Back to the OP, much like what others have already said. If you support the member and his or her calling, do it. But be ready to be there and back them up when they need it. To me sustaining someone during sacrament when they are called upon, but then not supporting them later on, is, to me, akin to enlisting in the army, taking the oath, and then staying at home when they call you up for active duty. To me the calling is as serious as being enlisted. There is a reason why you were called.

Bill, I think you're right. If anything it's (to them) justifying do a lot of "bad stuff" without justification, with the totally whacked out idea that just because they come back to the church when they retire, somehow they will be forgiven. A couple of the guys I talked about do just that. My grandpa raised me, and he was a former cop. He said that no matter how bad it gets, if the cops and prosecutors obey the US Constitution and the Holy Bible, the rest is "easy pickens" because they'll have Jesus on their side.

Big creek, I think that you can turn yourself around, if you put a little bit of effort into cleaning yourself up. Start with the small stuff first, and pray about it. And then keep working on the small stuff. Then on a little bit bigger. Before you know it you'll be itching to go to church! I don't know what to say, really, other than wish you the best. I know that some of the comments made in this thread have given me some valuable insight. I kept judging others, then expressing my dissatisfaction with them when they'd judge me. Certainly gives me something to work on to change!

Last Sunday I was getting bored listening to others and their testimonies, so I started surfing. Had no problem reaching out, and one of the mothers sitting behind me couldn't get her iPad to work for her son. So she asked me how I did it. She wasn't too pleased when I told her I was on the Mormon Teachings app my phone has. All the better. Read some sunday school lessons, and the interactive references.

Well, I had intended to not have disclosed the info I did, because, as Mirk said, essentially, who knows? Well, in the case of the young man I spoke of, I am inclined to think intimidation was not a factor. Why? Because there is a lot more to the case that I did not disclose. But enough of that. There are still examples I have had personal involvement in, and those are rock solid. In the end I have to say that Scotty has one of the best replies. I talked with a close friend from church (he knows all of this that I have talked about here, and in more detail) earlier today, and he asked me "Are you going to step away, again, because of this?" He knows know how much I was hurt, damaged, by one of the cases. And I'll tell you guys like I told him, "No. I still have to account for everything I do to God someday. Just...like...they...do. I am obligated to forgive, so I will. I have no choice. Whether or not they follow their responsibilities, that's up to them.

What I have seen is, as I said in the OP, cops I know that are LDS, are willing to set church standards aside, and truthfully, to be bullies. I know of a man that was prosecuted for molesting his daughter. Problem is, even she said it never happened. Not just him, but her. She even provided a letter to the court saying that none of it ever happened. The judge even refused him the right to appeal. The detective, LDS, though I'm uncertain if he's an elder or not. The prosecutor, an elder. The assistant prosecutor, an elder. The judge, a high priest. They have a history of abusing non-Mormons and Mormons alike. This is why I labeled immorality and unethical conduct. I my nearly 50 years of living, this is not the first time I have seen this, nor will it be the last. When I see how people that hold such positions are so willing to behave like this, to perform their duties/jobs/functions like this, and no I'm not saying ALL were cops, but some are, and yes some are even doctors, and the damage they do, the lives destroyed, and no matter what I do know about them, I will never ever EVER understand why. Because when they "return to the fold", they're gonna have to repent for their many sins, like we all have and do. And to me, you just cannot go and say "Hey, God, you know, I was trying my best to be a good boy, will you forgive me of ll of my sins?" without going to those you have harmed, and asking them for forgiveness. Uh, like dude, HOW is that supposed to happen? You are somehow gonna go to this guy you put away 20 to life for a crime he swears he didn't commit, and you're gonna say "Hi there, my friend! How are you?" -enter brief mediochre conversation- "Say, you know I realize we havn't exactly liked each other, I mean you know I put you away for 20 to life and all, but would you forgive me?" What does the prisoner say? "Oh gosh! Suuuure! I love you my brother! I'll do it in a heart beat!" acting timid while blushing? How does compensation for damages come about? We're not talking one or two people. We're talking a lot more than that. Bearing false witness, lying, ignoring testimony, depriving of their rights under law...? What happened to the Articles of Faith, here? When these guys put the church aside, they are still going every Sunday. They still partake of sacrament. And last I knew the judge and prosecutor also have their temple recommends. And to answer a question I think the cops here are ready to ask, no. I do not have any cases pending now or have had in the past with this trio. I have experienced this kind of abuse, but not by them. We have good people and bad people, everywhere we go. But this, how some members are capable of this, they do this, and it's almost like it's ok, because of who they are...? It was because of people like that that I walked away from the church 20+ years ago. I am on my way back to the church, I made it clear to my bishop I'm coming back, I know what my errors were and I repented for them. But to say that my disgust for the likes of these guys no longer exists would be a lie. I jut wish that there was attention paid to members like these guys by bishopric/stake presidency/area authorities. It's not right. And no, I won't provide case #'s.

When you see something like this, is it wrong to confront the other person and tell them their conduct is improper?