john4truth
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Posts posted by john4truth
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Now that the Church policy has made national news I feel other actions should follow. I'm a member of several non-profit organizations and this week I was at a meeting where a letter was read ...warning people who live in East Texas of a current risk. A major law enforcement group sent out letters, warning of people who have been identified as dangerous going to non profits ...trying to be accepted and claiming to be a member. Investigation reveal the "visitor" will be well armed.
This non profit asked members to lock all doors but one during meetings. Assign someone to watch those entering and if a concern is identified call 911.
I would like it if the Church would have common sense guidelines to reduce risk. It is good that, since peace officers can carry, signs can not be posted. I am concerned that this nation wide news story may identify the Church as a target on Sunday.
In Texas if a sign is not present it's not illegal. I never carry, but some have already said they would rather take a chance on discipline than risk there family's safety. Glenn Beck stated he believes people will be afraid to attend a Christian church within 5 years. It is is important that everyone understand nationwide we are rapidly becoming a different country and being nieve is not the best policy. You don't have to Google far to see we do have haters out there. One other Church in my tiny town has 4 unidentified armed persons at every meeting.
😆 Of course if implementation of this is like the policy that class rooms for youth and primary have windows in the doors, I will not be alive to see it implemented. PFR in our area only do what is necessary to have services due to budget restraints.
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Now that the Church policy has made national news I feel other actions should follow. I'm a member of several non-profit organizations and this week I was at a meeting where a letter was read ...warning people who live in East Texas of a current risk. A major law enforcement group sent out letters, warning of people who have been identified as dangerous going to non profits ...trying to be accepted and claiming to be a member. Investigation reveal the "visitor" will be well armed.
This non profit asked members to lock all doors but one during meetings. Assign someone to watch those entering and if a concern is identified call 911.
I would like it if the Church would have common sense guidelines to reduce risk. It is good that, since peace officers can carry, signs can not be posted. I am concerned that this nation wide news story may identify the Church as a target on Sunday.
In Texas if a sign is not present it's not illegal. I never carry, but some have already said they would rather take a chance on discipline than risk there family's safety. Glenn Beck stated he believes people will be afraid to attend a Christian church within 5 years. It is is important that everyone understand nationwide we are rapidly becoming a different country and being nieve is not the best policy. You don't have to Google far to see we do have haters out there. One other Church in my tiny town has 4 unidentified armed persons at every meeting.
😆 Of course if implementation of this is like the policy that class rooms for youth and primary have windows in the doors, I will not be alive to see it implemented. PFR in our area only do what is necessary to have services due to budget restraints.
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It is important that each of us are careful in getting our own revaluations We should put our trust in Heavenly Father because man will disappoint. I will not start a fight but all men are subject to flaws. Apostles have been excommunicated for arguing contradictory revelations. I have been promoted by the Spirit, during an interview, not to issue a calling after the Stake Council made a decision. The Stake President said this was correct and how Heavenly Father does things. What ever we are doing we have our own revelations.
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I find it amazing that men are told to cut their hair when Corinthians says God nor the Church has no such law and we are instructed to take no offense for this reason
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Funny how we look at this so cautiously but, have no problem with Kavanaugh's crucifixion with no evidence. The Pope confessed to not acting on knowledge of children being hurt. We need to be slow to judge especially when there's a motive to make accusations. History repeats itself over and over.
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Why are we talking about this. There's no evidence of wrong doing and hypothetical questions are bad. There is evidence that was blocked that Ford is the only person involved who has much to be ashamed of. This was just a stunt designed to destroy a man with no evidence. If anyone believes this how can they trust any man who ever lived. The extremist say all men have done this.
If a child is born, they believe, a woman has been raped twice. The extremist are against all relations between a man and a woman, even in marriage.
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There's not sufficient evidence to say. History does indicate a man that age and unmarried would normally be shunned. My understanding is that it would have really been a big deal for him to have been single. Which then causes the question would this have not been brought when his enemies sought to discredit him. We do know they're are writings that were rejected as scripture, that say he was. There's no answer but I look forward to knowing. It makes sense he would have to endure this. LOL..
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Most people believe in a Father and Son but their experts disagree. I believe God is Perfect Love and in the end everybody will have the chance to accept the truth.
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9 hours ago, Zaccheus said:
Are you referring to trinitarians? If so, as a Roman Catholic, I’ll say we believe God is Spirit, not a mist. He exists eternally the same and would still be God in undiminished perfection, holiness and divinity, even if nothing else but God existed. God the Holy Trinity is, therefore, not ‘a being’ among beings, but Being itself.
Sorry I should have said I have not learned RC beliefs and believe your answer. My 22 year experience is various Protestants. Not all believe the mist or nothing but everything. I am ignorant on all RC beliefs. I never accept what books say. I ask those teaching their congratulations... that is what matters. I can say with certainty some condemn all other religions but I have not ask RC experts because they were not common in my area.
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3 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:
Just as Creedal Christians frequently misunderstand our LDS view of God, I think we frequently misunderstand theirs. Hence, I like to make the effort to go a couple extra miles and understand and respect Creedal beliefs there-- after all treat people how you would like to be treated.
The idea that the Father/Son/Spirit are all the same one person put in different roles is an idea known as "modalism", and is regarded as heresy by Trinitarian theologians. The Trinity actually teaches the the Father/Son/Spirt are three different persons. Now that's not to say you can't find a person sitting Catholic* pew that actually mistakenly believes modalism-- they do totally exist. But them holding that modalism belief is their own flawed understanding, and not reflective formal Catholic teaching. (*Catholic here is just an example faith).
Also, even when working with people who do actually believe in the three-person-in-one-God Trinity, that they frequently struggle to communicate that belief. Heck, we LDS run into the same problem-- human language rather sucks at conveying God. And you'll get people who describe the same thing from different angles, so to an outsider at first glance it looks like they're describing very different things. Again, we LDS run into the same language flaws, as seen in this very thread.
I base my comments on attending 22 yrs. a church where the minister had a Drs. Degree and taught they are one and only one being, they are never separate Jesus was the Father come to earth and said that was the official view of the SBC. I know this is not always, but I attended many different churchs and those who attended theirbchurch seminary had no separation. Members felt otherwise?
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13 hours ago, Traveler said:
Thank you for your input - I believe there are 2 levels possibilities each with two sub possibilities in creation - If anyone disagrees or has something to add - please do so :
First Level : G-d knows - or does not know in advance of creation how each individual created will act and behave in all possibilities that can possibly exist.
Second Level: G-d designs (creates) each individual with their all their characteristics including will along with all their strengths and weaknesses - the other possibility is that the individuality and uniqueness of each individual already existed - That what G-d creates is everything else other than what makes an individual unique and is the same for all individuals.
I believe that G-d knows in advance how each individual will turn out - which is the first part of the fist level. Then, I believe that what G-d creates is the same for all - that he does not create uniqueness. This I believe because I do not believe G-d is a respecter of persons nor will he do something or anything for one person that he will not do for another. I do not believe what G-d creates or provides or gives anyone any advantage in eternity.
With that said - I am not convinced that this mortal existence is all of reality. In this life we - I believe we are placed into condition that best serve our uniqueness. So it may appear that because of circumstance some have advantage. But I do not believe in this life we see the complete picture. That any attempt to define justice, mercy, or even what is an individual on the parameters the are manifested between conception (or whenever a person starts life) and death is incomplete and misleading. I believe there are 5 parameters that define our relationship with G-d and what he does for us as follows:
#1. G-d will not do for anyone that they are capable of doing for themselves.
#2. G-d will do for everyone that which they are not capable of doing for themselves.
#3. G-d will not do anything for anyone that is not for their eternal (long term) benefit.
#4. G-d will do whatever for everyone that is for their eternal (long term) benefit.
#5. G-d will not do anything for anyone without their permission and acceptance.
I have had many discussions with you @prisonchaplain and despite what you say of things according to doctrine you have been taught - I am not convinced that you fully believe some things you may say. I do not say this to fault you or someone like @MaryJehanne or anyone else - but I am not sure that you understand the ramifications of certain doctrine. For example - the doctrine that G-d is no respecter of persons. I am not sure that your understanding of that doctrine come across well in you concepts of creation and the individuality of individuals. Especially why in scripture we are told that some are called to be prophets unto nations before their were born or conceived in their mother's womb. I try to point out contradictions that I see. But at the same time, I listen very carefully to each response and attempt to glean anything I may have missed - not just concerning what you say according to your understanding - but to carefully check my logic to determine something I may not have considered. So I welcome your input.
And if I can connect to any truth I have not previously understood - I will embrace it in less than a nanosecond. And I can honestly say I have learned more from you (PC) than you realize. Though our opinions are very different - I trust you (and I believe that to trust someone is a greater honor than to love them). I do not learn much from anyone of my same exact opinion.
The Traveler
I seek not to dispute what you have said I am in the extreme south where they believe he is the same as the Father but what matters is they don't even believe in a being. Just a great mist that we cannot understand. The toughest part is scriptures conflict. I do not choose to debate members because someone loses regardless of who is right. The in issue is those who worship the Son not the Father
I have not found perfection among us history conflicts history and I don't think it matters, I have read Constantine enforced the Trinity doctrine. This was a secular decision
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We need a rule to teach as Jesus taught. Not just taking turns reading the book. Oh wait, I think we've already have been told that. LOL what ever it is I hope we'll follow instructions.
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On 9/20/2018 at 5:50 AM, JohnsonJones said:
Considering her background, I'm not sure what to think. Considering what I've heard of his school and his buddy Mark Judge, I also don't know what to think other than it is plausible and it sounds like Mark Judge and some of his buddies were doing some pretty terrible things back in High School. I think there are MANY these days that also fall into doing similar things.
The one PROBLEM that stands out to me is the boy who called Wolf. The Democrats seem to have fallen into this casual accusation approach these days. If they cannot seem to win by normal means, they win by creating a social pariah of the Republican Candidate. They will conjure up some individual to make accusations to ruin a candidate's reputation. Everyone is concerned about it when the accusations arise, but after the Democrats win, no one follows up and no one cares. This makes it basically a ruse, the boy who called wolf.
We look at this woman's reputation. It seems like another Democrat ruse. After it is all done, the Democrats won't follow up, the woman won't really care and will disappear in the woodwork, and Kavanaugh's reputation will still be ruined.
To me, this is despicable. I don't like the Democrats taking this type of approach to ruin someone's reputation merely for power on their part. It's against the Democrat Party's (well, what used to be) ethics and moral compass. It's against their directives. But it seems a LOT of this has been tossed aside these days.
So, the story is suspect, ESPECIALLY considering who it is coming from and their background and connection to this same ploy of people who call wolf.
The problem is considering who his friends were in High School and the reputation those friend have given that High School from back then (and Murkowski is another whose brother went and who seems to give credence to the stories...and she is one of the few that some think may NOT be favorable to Kavanaugh) is that the story being stated is actually believable. It could have happened that way. We've seen a LOT of places where morality among the boys were not that high, and considering the stories that have been written about the High School Kavanaugh went to, and that many were even sourced to one of his good friends...doesn't speak well.
So, it's a double sided dilemma. If the Democrats had not resorted to this ploy so much over the past two years it probably wouldn't be such a diliemma, but because they have...it makes it all the much harder to think this is anything more than a deliberate boy crying wolf yet again when there is no real concrete plan to follow up on it other than to trash a candidate reputation for political gain.
I have no pity on her. She is only trying to destroy him for polical reasons. If we allow this we are going to end up with nothing but liberals who have done drugged, raped women and anything else you can think of. We have had a president and many liberal congressmen do far worse and nothing has been done and we accept it. This is so obviously an attempt to delay until the election
We are being played for fools and it is working. Your husband, father, and sons lives are at risk, I have seen lives ruined and even when proven innocent I saw a school principal destroyed. Liberals would eliminate marriage between a man and a woman. One famous liberal said if a woman has a child ,she was raped twice by her husband.
This literally may be a nightmare she had. If this was true she would not have waited until after the debate was over and even now is focused on delay, delay, delay.
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We're judged on what we know. A person sealed in the Temple may not make it if they don't keep the covenants. Everyone will have an opportunity so the non member may end up there. I can not say. Many members may not make it based on obedience. A prophet said don't be surprised if Billy Graham is there. It's about knowledge and obedience.
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8 hours ago, SpiritDragon said:
I'm not sure if your comment was directed @MaryJehanne or myself. I see that you quoted her, but reacted confused, possibly because of my post that she was quoting? Otherwise I'm equally confused as to why someone saying thank you is confusing in the context of this discussion. Who said anything about believing God doesn't have a son? Is that an assumption about the trinity? Perhaps some view it that way. I've learned that I don't appreciate people telling me what I believe and I try to avoid doing it to others in kind. So in order for me to be consistent and avoid making assumptions about what you are trying to convey I would like to give you the chance to clarify what you're trying to say. (If you like that be sure to read Oh say can You Say by Dr. Seuss 😋)
If I were left to assume I'd believe you are being rude suggesting that that your assumptions about someone else's deeply held beliefs about deity must be a joke because they don't conform to your own current beliefs. Can you please try to clear this up by clearly stating who and what you are referring to?
I understood from remarks you were saying they're litteraly one.
I apologise if I over reacted and misunderstood. The Trinity is a common mistake. We do believe in polytheism
I should read more carefully. We worship God the Father.
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My bishop and I are one as the scriptures state.
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56 minutes ago, MaryJehanne said:
Thank you, SpiritDragon!
The book of Genesis starts by referring to God as plural. Husband's and wives should be one like the Father and son are. Doctine is God sent his Son to Die. Jesus is baptized and the Father says behold my Son. And on and on. The can't be one litteraly this false doctrine started by Constantine to take care of politics in his time. This is the difference Christ Church and many others. The Trinity doctrine is false doctrine.
If you don't believe God has a son there's a problem. They work together as one like a family,town, country but each is a totally different being. Jesus sits at the right hand of God.
I hope you are joking. LOL
There is an expert on this that shows the Trinity to be impossible in the Church. I heard him speak.
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7 minutes ago, john4truth said:
I wonder what Elder Ballard's opinion is on that. It is not something solid but a missionary claimed half of members use tea or coffee on his mission. Evidently many members believe it is okay if it is cold. Maybe that's why so many now sell cold coffee. LOL
No one drinks hot beer. Just kidding.
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5 hours ago, carlimac said:
My sister has a temple recommend despite believing it's OK to drink green tea. She said she discussed it with both her bishop and stake Pres. I don't know that she drinks it frequently but I know she doesn't worry about it.
I wonder what Elder Ballard's opinion is on that. It is not something solid but a missionary claimed half of members use tea or coffee on his mission. Evidently many members believe it is okay if it is cold. Maybe that's why so many now sell cold coffee. LOL
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1 hour ago, The Folk Prophet said:
Are you suggesting that some bishops randomly skip some of the temple recommend questions?
Absolutely Not!!!!
Bishops and his couselors ask the questions but often don't question the answers given. If people justify things or they are not honest with themselves some leaders do not take it any further. I was in a meeting where M Russell Ballard said this. It takes courage for a leader to even suggest a person is not worthy. Essentially you are calling them a liar and from experience it's hard to do.
I have heard leaders say if you are not honest, it is on you. This is false. Meeting with M. Russell Ballard, he told us( maybe even chastised) we should tell the person to go home and ponder and pray for a couple of weeks. It is on the leader, even if all he has is the Spirit and he has him feeling there's a problem.
The most often probIem I find is Temporary recommends for youth. I have seen kids go on youth temple trips who rarely even go to Sacrament with hope they will become active. The questions are always asked !!!!!! I severed in 4 bishoprics and agree with M Russell Ballard we need to do a better job as leaders, if we know they are not worthy regardless what they say. Everyone needs to know, if they're not worthy , if this is the truth.
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7 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:
The sons of Adam married the daughters of Adam.
Sorry my memory is flawed. Genesis 6:2 The sons of God married the daughters of men. Leaving room for debate, and I don't know.
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On 9/19/2018 at 11:36 AM, Vort said:
Okay, so the RC Church applies its internal discipline via its "Canonical Law", while the government sees to jail time and other secular punishments. What's the problem?
For some reason anatess knows the truth. Canon law no longer can hold people against their will. I am for truth. Which is RC hide behind Canon laws and children are hurt because of it. It does not matter that Anatess knows all about the laws of the RC because they do not follow them. Law not enforced is not law. It is only wishful thinking.
The truth of what the law says, is not the truth about what is really happening. Anatess keeps quoting Canon Law but the Pope admitted it's not enforced. We still have the law of Consecration I am dying and broke due to an auto immune disease. In theory I should have no financial worries LOL. The truth is I am trying to save our children ...period. Theoretical Laws are not worth the parchment they are written on. The truth is RC need to do more to protect children, according to the Pope. The rest is a foolish debate. Anatess please do not try to prove your knowledge at the expense of children. She is arguing with the Pope.
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On 9/21/2018 at 7:54 PM, Sunday21 said:
One of the questions in the interview, Are you attending your meetings?
Some bishops do some don't.
No Guns in Sacrament Meeting—We Mean It This Time!!!
in LDS Gospel Discussion
Posted · Edited by john4truth
Add information
Using the comparisons of the UK to the US is uninformed or dishonest.
If you take away the gun crimes in cities such as Chicago (that ban firearms), the US is one of the safest countries in the world much safer than the UK. Almost all gun crimes in the US are in "gun free" cities. A prophet once said statistics are worse than lies. Be careful 🙂