Wilderland

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Posts posted by Wilderland


  1. I know we are in the midst of gathering scattered Israel, but I wonder, when I read changing daily news about missionaries being called home from foreign missions, if the time of the gentiles is not now very rapidly closing, our has shut.

    It may not fit the template I imagined when thinking about the time of the gentiles coming to an end, but it is possible current world circumstances are a part of it. The gathering of scattered Israel may be more literal than we presume. Thoughts?


  2. @anatess2, you said, “And no, you didn't say anything about "Impressing the class with their knowledge", you said "that person" in a ward.”

    Actually, in my first post I indeed said “that person who wants to dominate,” and in my first response to you I did say that person who is “simply trying to impress with his/her knowledge ...” I would like to gently suggest you have quoted statements in which I’ve actually said what you believe I didn’t say. I referred to the show-boating know-it-all. The person who is trying to impress others and who wants to dominate conversations. He has an answer or comment for everything with the intent to gain attention, to ‘lift himself up as a light to the world’. Is it possible you have misunderstood me? If I am the source of misunderstanding due to a lack of clarity I offer my apology.

    On to the second point. Yes, I did say, “In my experience lively discussions in a church meeting ... only detract from the intended purpose.” And I did include RS and Priesthood meetings. Perhaps I should have better clarified, or been more explicit in that thought. In the context I intended to address, I meant lively discussions that don’t contribute to the spirit, are merely conjecture, or perhaps even bring a level of contention. None of that should occur at church. However, anatess2, if you are the spark that perks up a dead lesson, bless you.

    If we are in a class in which there is no discussion, and the instructor is simply reading from a manual, I’d join you in the foyer. One of the purposes of studying Come Follow Me is to help us be prepared to contribute to gospel discussions and share spiritual insight we received during our personal and family study. We have been encouraged to join the discussions in class. However, these discussions have parameters. All of our meetings and classes are to deepen conversion, and strengthen faith, families and homes. If our lively discussions don’t accomplish this at church, we are in error.

     

     

     


  3. @anatess2, I will go off on a brief tangent for a moment. I’m not talking about the ability to communicate and articulate a point in a lively discussion. However I don’t believe RS/Priesthood/Gospel Doctrine are necessarily the appropriate venues for such discussions. The purpose of our Sunday meetings is to both share and build each other’s faith. In church meetings we should be focused on the doctrines of Christ and the covenant path.

    So much guidance for the church can be found in Handbook 2. Specifically, section 18 states, “Each sacrament meeting should be focused on deepening conversion to Heavenly Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Other purposes of sacrament meeting are to worship, provide gospel instruction, perform ordinances, conduct ward business, and strengthen faith and testimony.” This certainly applies to all Sunday classes.

    Regarding Priesthood meetings: “In these meetings, priesthood holders conduct business, learn priesthood duties, strengthen individuals and families, study the gospel of Jesus Christ, counsel together, and organize to meet local needs.

    For Relief Society: “In these meetings, women learn doctrines and principles of the gospel that will help them increase their faith and personal righteousness, strengthen families and homes, and help those in need.

    In my experience lively discussions in church meetings accomplish none of the above, but only detract from the intended purpose.

    <Tangent mode off ...>

    For both @anatess2 and @Vort, my previous post was referring to that person who most Sundays is simply trying to impress with her/his knowledge, which Nephi defines as priestcraft. This person wants to demonstrate his/her learning, and often intimidates others from contributing, who may want to share thoughts and spiritual insight or experiences that could add to the spirit of the class. Yet they feel their contribution doesn’t measure up to overbearing self-aggrandizement. It. Detracts. From. The. Spirit. This does not describe the member who is excited and wants learn, or build faith.  

     

    Zil’s depiction of what looks like a Hasidic Jew is awesome.

     


  4. We all seem to have 'that person' in our ward who wants to dominate conversations/discussions/insight during a lesson. The rub is they don't realize what they're doing. It's priestcraft.

    Men preaching and setting themselves up for a light to the world that they may get gain and praise of the world; they do not seek the welfare of Zion.  2 Nephi 26:29 defines it. It's show-boating.

    I read a story in Elder Richard G. Scott's book, Finding Peace, Happiness, and Joy. He described a priesthood lesson he attended in Utah, taught by a brother who wanted to impress his audience with his knowledge. The spirit was noticeably absent, in spite of the detailed information and insights with which the instructor tried to wow the quorum. Elder Scott contrasted that with another priesthood lesson he attended somewhere in Latin America, taught by a nervous, humble brother. The spirit was palpable.

    Sometimes we fool others, and ourselves, into thinking our level of knowledge about church-related topics or history is an indicator of our worthiness.

    Hopefully my comment is not priestcraftly. 😳


  5. 3 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

    Personal thoughts on the 30 minutes of silence is when the church is most likely to stray or apostasize as during that period there will be silence in heaven...indicating that revelation will actually cease for a period of time 

    Respectfully, I stand unconvinced this has or ever will occur.  Whether Gileadi, Rowe, Snuffer, Spencer, a close friend, or relative believes so, my stance is firm.  The answers to the following are either "yes" or "no".

    -Do you have a testimony of the Restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ?

    -Do you sustain the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the prophet, seer, and revelator and as the only person on the earth authorized to exercise all priesthood keys?
    -Do you sustain the members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators?

     


  6. Reflecting on what President Nelson said at the conclusion, along with some of Elder Holland's comments about our 'conference tradition' for the opening talk, I wonder if the format of conference itself will change.

    "... in spite of everything else this conference tradition may offer us, it will mean little or nothing unless we find Jesus at the center of it all ... we must cut through the commotion—joyful as it is—and fix our attention on Him ... But we don’t have to be in a conference center to find Him."


  7. He certainly doubled down on President Nelson’s most recent BYU comments. He didn’t mince any words, and I love him the more for it.

    I met him once at a Priesthood Leadership Conference. He had nothing of the stern Federal judge vibe one sees at General Conference. He was very personable, and gave me a hug.


  8. A few things come to mind for me. First, I agree with some of what Anddenex and ScottyG said. This is absolutely a part of a sifting process, just like Come Follow Me. And those who follow counsel are indeed obvious. The children and youth program is simply the next step. Those who follow the prophet's counsel will experience blessings, and those who don't will, regrettably, be spiritually left behind. This is a part of adding oil to our lamps. I serve in a certain stake position, and I assure you Come Follow Me, and adherence to it, or not, is a common point of discussion and worry. The same for the new children and youth initiative.

    Becoming more spiritually independent is a pattern that began at least as far back as when Preach My Gospel came out. Gone were the days of memorizing discussions word for word, and instruction was to be more spirit-led. Then similar changes came to youth Sunday School lessons, then Gospel Doctrine lessons, then of course Come Follow Me. We are being led line upon line to better, or more closely follow the spirit. I see it as similar to Moses raising the brazen serpent. "What do you mean, if I follow these silly instructions, I, or my family, will be healed/protected? Pffft!" In a sense we have a front row seat to the Law of Moses being superseded by something better. Quibble about policy vs. doctrine, but the changes we are seeing are not arbitrary, and are necessary.

    The new children and youth initiative, as I said, is the next step in this progression. We are being prepared, both for obvious challenges such as the world growing more and more wicked, and our need to better qualify for the guiding influence of the spirit for yet unseen dangers and challenges. President Nelson said as much a year and a half ago. I also agree with Traveler that the day ‘may’ arrive where we will have to do it on our own, at least for a while. Think of the 10 virgins. Think of the warning to be spiritually prepared. "In the coming days we will not be able to survive spiritually ..." Imagine the necessity of qualifying for, recognizing, and following the spirit if it’s just up to us. That would not be the time to start figuring out how the spirit, or power in the Priesthood, operates.

    Although parents have always had the responsibility to teach the gospel to their families, there is now more onus for us to insure it happens. Come Follow Me, and this new initiative bear this out. As an example, a close reading of what is and isn't in the new youth program may suggest mutual is going away:

    Support for the youth in regard to gospel study-

    Home-Centered: Prayer, Scripture study, Home evening, Sabbath Day, Family History. 

    Church-Supported: Sabbath instruction, Seminary.

    I can almost hear some members now (well, in January), "In MY day we had all these programs to help us. Road shows, Church softball and basketball, Duty to God, Faith in God, Young Woman's medallions, Scouting, and Mutual. How are we ever going to provide our youth the support they need to have a chance in this wicked world? What are our leaders thinking!?" In reality, what program or check-list can ever match the sacred right parents have to claim revelation for their children? In the end, we are either led by Christ through prophets, seers and revelators, or we are not. To whom much is given much is required, but don't forget to whom much is required, much is given!

    As an addendum, don't be surprised if we hear something new about sisters this coming weekend. 😉


  9. Hello. I am a long time lurker. I thought I'd dip my toe in the water today. Am I the only one who wonders what happened to Nephi's brother Sam? Were his descendants simply subsumed into Nephi's line? He is essentially never mentioned after 2 Nephi chapter 5 when they travel north to escape Laman and Lemuel, except for a brief mention in Alma 3, which only mentions him in the context of being a just and holy man, along with Nephi, Jacob, and Joseph. We hear of Nephites, Jacobites, Josephites, Zoramites, Lamanites, Lemuelites, and Ishmaelites, but never any Samites. Is it because Lehi, in his blessing to Sam, says Sam's seed will be numbered with Nephi's seed? That appears to be the best explanation, but I surmise that those in the Book of Mormon placed a premium on knowing their detailed ancestry, since it is mentioned several times, with specificity. Sam is curiously absent.