dprh

A few (oh, now it's been 5-6)years ago, I had a calling with the Teaches in young men. When we would have joint activities at the park, there was a group of 4-5 priests who would always take their shirts off. At first, since they weren't under my jurisdiction, I didn't do anything. After seeing it happen a couple more times, I would always ask them to put their shirts back on. At first they looked perplexed, like they couldn't comprehend that they should have a shirt on at a church activity, but after a few times, it stopped happening.

I sometimes wonder about how missionary work will go in the Spirit World Missionary: Let me tell you about Jesus Christ Investigator: Wait, am I dead? M: Yep, so am I I: We're both dead? M: Sure are, now you get a chance to learn about the gospel. I: We're both dead, and we're both in the same place? M: Well, yeah. I'm here to share with you the good news! I: Since we're in the same place, I don't think you got it right. I walks (floats?) away.

I often cringe when I hear the term "self-reliant" because it seems so contrary to the teaching of submitting to the Lord in all things. We are supposed to rely on Him. I can't approach the Father without Jesus. I am completely dependent on Him. That's just the way it is. Now, can we get to a point where we are not dependent on Him? Maybe, in the Celestial Kingdom, but I think not. Another thought...we are subject to gravity. But that doesn't mean given the right equipment, thrust, lift, other aviation terms, that we can't leave the surface of the earth. Being dependent on God doesn't limit us, it is how we 'fly'.

From this weeks Come Follow Me lesson intro

Dude, I even admitted that there was a semantics issue. I'll repeat my question. Can you see a difference between feeling bad about doing something bad and feeling like you are bad? You're putting a lot of words in my mouth. You pick one piece of my post, come up with extreme examples and extrapolate conclusions. These are the types of responses that make this forum a less-than-welcoming place sometimes. Thanks for all the fish.

We agree on something!

No, I don't believe there are bad people. I refuse. There are people that have made terrible choices. But everyone on this Earth chose to follow Heavenly Father's plan and exercised faith in Jesus Christ to come here. And they can again. If the semantics bother you, let's use a new word that distinguishes between feeling bad for ones actions and feeling like I am bad. Can you see that there is a difference? I feel that people who do things that are wrong should feel guilty about what they've done. They should not feel that they themselves are bad, wrong, broken, irredeemable.

That's why I suggested reading some of Brene Brown's stuff. She holds that there is a difference between shame and guilt. Simplified, guilt is feeling that I did something bad, shame is feeling that I am bad. Guilt can be very productive. It helps us realize that we've done something wrong and to do better. Shame is never productive. Feeling that I am bad, that I am broken, unable to be fixed. It's a horrible place that I've lived most of my life and I'm discovering more and more people have. Those are very specific and extreme, but yes, it would be great if there was a safe place for you to express and share these things you are going through. I'm not advocating that we share every weakness with every person. It's easy to misconstrue an attempt to sway the pendulum in one direction as an attempt to push it completely over. So don't share with Doug. That's not what I've said. I'm hoping I'm brave enough someday to talk about my experiences in Elder's Quorum. Before the pandemic, there were a handful of times I almost did. But, I've never seen anyone do anything like that. It is extremely frightening to get that vulnerable, but I feel at some point it will help someone with their struggles. If I ever do, it will be different than what I've shared with my bishop, stake president, therapist, wife, children, family. If I ever get asked to talk at a BYU conference, I will tailor it to that. Edit: Shame doesn't prevent actions, it just makes people do them in secret. Honestly, I think you could learn a lot by attending some ARP meetings or listening to some addiction podcasts. https://unashamedunafraid.com/podcast-2 https://www.betrayedaddictedexpert.com/our-story https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/couples-healing-from-pornography-addiction-06IcdswLM7C/ https://leadingsaints.org/is-your-elders-quorum-or-relief-society-psychologically-safe/ https://reach10.org/breaking-the-silence-podcast/

If we had a society where it wasn't shameful, I think there would be a lot less problems. If I'd seen examples something like this, but with my issues, I think I'd have had a much better life.

Shame is quite a topic. Brene Brown has put in incredible research into it. If you're interested, I'd highly recommend reading some of her books or listening to a Ted Talk.

Maybe not praised. But I gotta admit, since I've been going to ARP meetings I've learned a lot about sharing my thoughts, feelings, weaknesses with others. There is something cathartic and healing about identifying and voicing them as well as hearing from others with similar circumstances. Plenty of things I share I wouldn't be brave enough to say in public because I'm too scared about how others would react and treat me. A big part of addiction lies in the secrets, the hiding. Sometimes (I'd argue almost always) losing the shaming is a good thing.

I don't know about how others feel, but as I watch my kids grow, I'm excited for them, but also a part of me mourns that they aren't the cute, little infant, toddler, pre-schooler, etc that they used to be. I think it's similar to that. And @estradling75 said it better as I was thinking

When I was Depressed, that would be Po-tay-to and Po-tah-to.

Thanks for clarifying Fether. If you're counting out medication and therapy, then, as others have said, be a good friend. Yes, friends should be willing to give hard advice, but that's only after a real established relationship of trust. Hours and months of talking. Like I said before, I don't know of anyone who was Depressed reacting positively to "just get over it" I would highly recommend against the tough love approach.

Honestly, from your post, it sounds like you haven't put any study into it. You've thought about it, but don't have any reference other than your own experience. I'd suggest reading some articles on Depression or even talking to some people who have suffered with it. It will probably change your outlook. And until you do, it actually might be best for you not to talk about it. The whole post came off as insensitive, uninformed, and rude.