tiancum

He probably has to create something too.

I totally understand. I just get a little tired of the same old argument the "Antis" use against us, and was giving an alternative to the usual way things go when they mention this. simply a different...not wrong...way of seeing things.

Wanna know some interesting trivia? Some GA have actually said that Satan is not to be called Lucifer any more. For he gave up that name/title. Many refer to his preexistant state, when he WAS Lucifer, but they call him other names for who he has devolved into now. I don't believe they are, or we are brothers with him nor his followers any more. They literally gave up their birthright. Doing so in the old testament (especially) They have lost all the blessings that the children of God are entitled to.

I dont understand what you mean Dr T

Yup! How come?

No I don't... Christ is the only begotten. (literal/physical as you say)...

Once, a well meaning Christian told me I believed in a different Jesus than him. I said, "I believe in the one that was born in Bethlehem, who healed the sick, raised the dead, cast out devils, sacrificed for my sins, died and rose on the 3rd day. Why...which one do you believe in?" (that didn't make him happy) He then said, you believe that Satan and Jesus are brothers. I replied....Actually, no I don't...Satan is a bastard...... (I didn't say this, but i believe he has no father, he gave up his birthright when he was exposed and came out in open rebellion, and was cast down. He and his followers are not part of the eternal family. ) I then said, "What might be confusing you is that Satan was an angel with authority in God's presence like the Bible says, and God created him, and many Christians believe that if God creates something, He is it's father. It's a bit of a stretch, but i can see your thinking. Your argument is persuasive, but I still don't believe Satan and Jesus are brothers though, sorry." Aren't I horrible?

good points Iggy, thank you, that cleared up much. nope, I am not threatened. I love it actually. I really believe in the gifts of the spirit, but i see a knee jerk reaction by many that don't like it for some reason.

she was more specific than that. I still wonder if she has the right to tell others, (not under her direct stewardship) like missionaries that they have angels around them, and what they are saying. For those of you in leadership, bishops, high council, EQP, how would you feel if you knew someone on your ward was doing this?

There is a lady in our ward, who says she has it.(well the missionary said she did)The missionaries were over at her house, they were giving a blessing and she said one of the elder's family (dead grampa) was there, and didn't want him to worry, and to fix things with his family or something. She said to confirm it through prayer... The missionary hadn't ever seen a gift like that before so he asked me about it. Does this sound legit? how does this gift manifest itself? Are people allowed to receive things like that about other people not under their stewardship?

what if we reach a point to where we don't feel like what we did was wrong any more? ....We don't feel remorse, and become Pharisaical. We still don't repeat the sin again....say because we don't want to get caught/arrested etc. Is it possible that it would be added again to us?

if a person at one time repents of his/her sins...forsakes them... and then a while down the road, forgets how to repent, and forgets the importance of the Savior in their lives... (like king Benjamin says in alma 5, about having the mighty change of heart) Are those sins still forgiven? or do we need to remian humble for the atonement to remain an active cover for our prior sins?

Everybody cares what others think. Funny Benjamin didn't even mention buying pizza on the sabbath in alma 5. he mentioned 3 things...not that though.

maybe they lived there and were just checking their mail.

I admit I do think i am better than others at times. How sad is this, that the people I think I am better than are those that would hurt others with high disregard. I have no desire to "HELP" those people. Because most of the time, they do not want to be helped. They see themselves as better, more righteous, Blah blah blah. They can never admit they are wrong and often, when they are forced to apologize to save face, usually goes something like....."i am sorry you thought i was being mean", or "I am sorry you got offended." On the other hand, pertaining to charity. I try to see always that they are my equal, as humans. I am not better but simply in a better circumstance financially, sometimes. I am a beggar too. I need much that I cannot provide for myself. I might beg for different things, (well actually it's been money of late) But I have learned how powerful asking is. I see the beggar as simply someone hungry for something he does not know how to get.... Whether it be money, love, knowledge, spirituality, hope, faith. I think there is something noble about begging, because it is saying that we are not too proud to ask. Asking is key.

welcome kitty

Nope, read the OT again. Exactly what it says, we believe. I thought your question was sincere. I didn't know you were mocking us. That'll teach me.

I write of a specific case...someone who is close to me. In one of my ward's someone close to me had a very special experience along the lines I mentioned. No names are mentioned, so i think it is ok to talk about briefly. weird thing is, no one knows they have had the experience....it's like Satan opened up both barrels on them. I have never seen people more picked on even at church. They are gossiped about for the stupidest things. People were even talking about them for wearing sweat pants to the ward Christmas party. I felt so badly for them, they sat first, and no one would even sit close to them. The wife has been accused of stealing, the husband has been gossiped about for the most horrible things you could imagine. People say they are self righteous, crazy, use unrighteous dominion, are borderline apostate, thievery, dishonesty, adultery, devil worship, abuse...and this comes from people who should know better. (people who have a lot of good in them) They are the complete opposite of all their accusations, yet many perpetuate the gossip. The weirdest thing is that they moved. And some of the gossip followed them over hundreds of miles. HOW THE HECK?? They handle it well for the most part. There are times when he gets hurt and a little angry, but most of the time he returns their cruelty with kindness. He has broken down and cried in front of me, because of the cruelty they passed through. I think to myself, If this is what happens when someone gets a "sure witness" well then, I don't know if many are willing to take up this Cross. They are truly despised. IT is the weirdest thing i have ever seen. That is admirable. I wish you would have been in the old ward. Dude, i hear ya, I would be tempted to think that too. Again it came from people who had basically good hearts. (i hope this is ok to say) but the missionaries gave them a blessing and it told them that many were jealous, )something like, that thier goodness was exposing the weakness in others, just by their presence. and to love them anyway. anyway... interesting isn't it. It makes me think, if I had a neighbor like this, would I let my pride make me try to hurt them in little ways? I don't know if I could handle that test, let alone being persecuted by those who should know better.

OK, i am actually curious about that one.

I believe that a sure sign that God has forgiven us is that he tells us, "i have forgiven you". He might do this audibly, through a leader,or through an outward sign. It will be significant for the recipient, and may not to others. Whether something is an answer to prayers or not is not our place to judge, it is up to you to decide.

I wonder if it because a private company might have the copyright. I am really excited for this book, i hadnt heard it was teachings of the porphet JOseph. I can imagine all the fights in elders quorum though.

my brother!! (and 10% poorer)

I don't feel i can call on people for help in my quorum. We are new to my ward. I asked them to help me move in, but my new EQP/ boss at place of employment gossiped about us along with his wife, and we have a bad rap...we moved in alone. We are borderline apostate..according to our new ward. (oddly enough, because I visit this site) No biggie really. I make sure that people know they can expect me to help in priesthood, i try and kill 'em with kindness. I still love 'em, it's just hard to not have friends at church. /shrug..i would appreciate a little cheese with my whine!!! lol

Joseph talked some about being able to see the Savior. He says that it is possible for every member to receive this witness...That we should strive for it, work towards it. (i am going to ask a lot of questions, but no disrespect is intended. I know many have heard stories, and have experiences and i am not asking that you cast your pearls before swine, answer as many or as few as you want) Do you think it is common occurrence? Do you think many are working towards this goal? Is it a good goal to have? What percent of the church has received this witness? Is it commonplace... (1 in 10, 1 in 1000, 50,000) Does one that has seen Christ, communes with Him, have a special glow? The scriptures say that the pure in heart will "see God". How does one become pure hearted? What does being pure hearted mean? (a hypothetical example) How would you react if your child had friends over, and one of them says, while looking at a picture of Christ, "My mom says that Jesus hair was lighter." the kid then accidentally reveals that the mom has seen Christ. Ya know how kids talk. would we; get jealous? think the family is weird? think they are apostate? think they are legit, and wanna ask questions. try and find fault with them? just drop it and don't think about it any more.

Honestly CK, The tone of your posts sound angry, impatient, exasperated, frustrated. Am I misinterpreting? I hope so. If you are indeed struggling with these emotions, may I suggest that you take a step back for a while? If what you have said is true, then it is our job to find out for ourselves... Through the spirit. You have done your part. I honestly appreciate the position you have offered. It has helped me immensely. Can we let others believe something you think is false? For that matter, for those of us with different views, can we let CK and others believe something we think is false without insults and anger? It cannot be taught by compulsion. These things are sacred and cannot be taught our way. They have to be taught by the comforter. If it is by any other way, it is not of God. We can not contend over points of doctrine if we plan on preaching and receiving by the holy Ghost. Honestly, none of us have the authority to interpret the scriptures "officially" for another. The best we can do is give our opinions, and share them. The spirit has to do the rest. It cannot unless we come at this with a spirit of meekness.