zil2

Thank you! Yet another way in which our neighborhood is amazing.

Well, now who's being silly?

Only because they haven't spent enough time watching I_am_puma videos. (I really, really want my very own mountain lion now.)

In the beginning: What, you didn't expect me to be serious after death, did you?

Glad to hear it! I hear the spot I'm in will receive less damage than most - some sort of rock under us. Of course, I haven't researched that myself, so I'm taking the neighbor's word for it... If needed, I'll see if @mirkwood has room in his Prius for an extra passenger - we can both come over... (Or if his Prius can't make it, I'll offer the three extra seats in my CR-V. )

Perhaps "Ask Captain Moroni whether they were angry at the kingmen." would be a good addition to someone's PBL... For an added bonus, use a fountain pen. (Above is Sailor Seiboku in a Kaweco Sport, fine nib on Staples ARC paper.) #postbucketlist #post-bucketlist #pbl (Apparently I'm not the first person to think of this, but I didn't know that until after I thought of it... It's not terribly popular right now, and existing uses of the hashtag appear mostly to be about posting your bucket list online or what to do after you've done everything on your bucket list.) (Also, it's possible I should have thought of this 4 days ago, but oh well, better late than never...) Now that I've made the challenge, I'll have to go think of what to put on my Post-Bucket List...

I have no idea, but I can honestly say that I don't feel hatred for anyone, not even Satan. There are things I dislike. I often say that I hate yardwork, but it's not the same emotion - not even sure that's an emotion. More importantly, I think it's very different to hate a person vs [anything not a person]. Did they feel anger or hatred for the kingmen? Did they act out of anger or necessity? Perhaps they felt a deep sorrow over these people who embraced evil and rejected good. (I don't know, or know how to know, I'm just asking the questions.) I guess the question I would have is, what good does your anger do? Does it bless your life or the lives of others? If so, then perhaps it is indeed righteous anger? If not, what's the point? I feel things like sorrow and disappointment more than I feel anger about the things like you describe. I don't know that my sorrow does any good either, but then, I wouldn't say I feel it all the time, only when confronted with these things and taking the time to ponder the people involved and the consequences. Perhaps the right answer is found in moderation: are your emotions consuming you? Preventing you from providing for your family? Interfering with your Church attendance or callings? Keeping you from feeling other, happier emotions? Creating unhealthy relationships? Ruining otherwise healthy relationships? Draining your bank account? Do you skip over the scriptures about mercy (thinking, "yeah yeah, whatever") and delve into the ones involving cleansing the temple or killing kingsmen (thinking, "YEAH! TAKE THAT!")? Etc. Etc. And maybe the details aren't the same for everyone. Maybe the emotions that would destroy me (because I couldn't keep them reined in?) would drive you to righteous actions (because that's how you would express them). ? I don't know. I'm just thinking that exploring the questions, doubting our certainties about our own "rightness" can be a good thing.

@NeuroTypical did a better job than I can answering this. I'll add only that anger's cousin is hatred. I learned in my early 20s what hatred felt like (it feels like Satan wrapping your heart in outer darkness), and swore I would never feel that ever again. Successful so far. To me, this makes perfect sense. The more evil the person you are dealing with, the less likely any sort of contending will do good. Bring in the Spirit, approach it a different way, or separate. Perhaps, too, it's because they've already brought Satan with them and it'll be so much easier for you to fall into the trap if you let contention get it's foot in the door. But here's another possible why: Why should we do all that? Not in hopes of eliminating evil from the world or defeating our enemies or winning the debate, but because it's what God does, and we are to be(come) like Him. Also, the more I study scriptures these days, the more convinced I am that our job is to shine the light so that those who will recognize it and come can see it. When the time comes for fighting, Christ will do it, not us. To me, why is the way to how - or the way to make how natural or easier. If one truly has charity and enjoys the companionship of the Holy Ghost and is converted to the two great commandments, then it must be easier to avoid contention altogether.

But I'm not so sure it isn't as simple as: 1. Whether anger is involved 2. Against whom or what you are contending 3. To what end / for what reason are you contending I suspect that exploring one's own answers to these, or exploring the possible answers to these as a group, might help. And yeah, it might come down to a fine line. If I go back to what I learned in scripture: It's OK to contend against the wicked, for the faith. The end. That's it. That's the only kind of contending allowed. But I'm not allowed to do it in anger. Exploring the why of that may also be useful. (I wish to say that I have fairly recent experience with this: ... not as one of the contenders but as someone present at the time and I tell you, I felt the Spirit leave and devils arrive rejoicing. In worldly terms, the tension in the place skyrocketed, became palpable and oppressive. But I knew full well what that meant on a spiritual level. We should avoid it like the plague.)

IMO, the weathermen have been wrong far more than usual this year. I sometimes think maybe this is God's way of keeping weathermen humble - by making the weather less predictable. If I'm right, instead of skiing in July, you'll be swimming in late April! I hope not. I really hope not. But those entities making sandbags available are surely acting wisely. On your side of the valley, I hope you have some sandbags (or whatever you need) available to you. (I'm on the much safer side of the valley - as far as flooding is concerned. Of course, that statement may result in a humbling of my own, so please excuse me, I need to go repent...)

Quoting @laronius, but really replying to all on the general topic of contending and contention... I decided to go exploring in scripture. "Contend" (by people, as opposed to the Lord) is presented in a positive manner in these contexts: contend with the wicked contend for the faith (against those actively trying to undermine it) contending against the church of the devil And in a negative manner in these contexts: complaining about the prophet doing something the not-prophet believed to be wrong contending against the Holy Ghost (resisting its influence) contending against the word of the Lord contending against any church other than the church of the devil members of the church contending with each other And then there's contention. While searching for anything good said about contention, I'll make some notes about all the bad things said about it: Synonyms / related: strife, confusion, darkness, disputation, false doctrine, hardheartedness, war, quarrel, etc. Causes: pride (defined as sole source), fools enter into it, scorners, drunkenness, those who like to "feed the fire", envy, hatred, politics, secret combinations, Satan Resist it by: being slow to anger, separating from those with whom you can't come to terms, patience, being one, avoiding it, the Holy Ghost, charity, dealing justly, the gospel, forgiveness I found nothing good said about contention. It would seem that contention is to contend with anger: So, there are good ways in which you can contend, but the second anger enters into it, now you've invited Satan to join you. Now, if anyone who finds it difficult to contend without anger wishes to explore why that is, I'm game. It might help all of us to have even better discussions going forward. But there's no point in me yammering on about why some folks have a hard time contending without contention, so unless someone else wants to explore this aspect, I'll let the above stand.

I think you are flat out wrong. I felt the Spirit witness that President Oaks' words were precisely what we needed to hear and that his assemblage was something I need to study, to find the reason and meaning behind the sequence and selections. As I was typing that, this came to mind:

Meanwhile, zil crawls out from under her rock, looks around, thinks, I'm so glad I live under a rock, crawls back under the rock, and returns to living in unreality.

If she was born more than 30 years ago, she probably said, "I told you not to do that. But come to me and I'll break this aloe plant and apply its healing balm."

IMO, this does not match your assertions. It does, however, clarify that your assertions were only your own speculations and conclusions without scripture to back them up and that's good enough for me to accept them as such. I disagree with your conclusions / speculations on the three issues I quoted.

Partly? You give too much credit. Where do you get this? It's not what scripture says. Again, where do you get this? I know of no scripture that suggests this.

I'm not sure I like the suggestion that I'm full of bowling balls... But then, I guess there are worse things to be full of... And I actually enjoy bowling, so... Nevermind. Nothing to see here. Moving on.

Welcome to ThirdHour, @Greg! I would only add that we also don't really know the mechanics of "being possessed". Were they occupying the same physical space? Were they following him around in a crowd? Is there a fourth dimension? We just don't really know anything more than what the scriptures say, and they're silent on the mechanics of it...

Maybe it would be, but I'm the wrong person with whom to explore your questions. Sorry. Perhaps someone else will take them up.

IMO, you're making it a lot more complicated than the dictionary, and more than it needs to be.

IMO, the underlying principles are simple and have not and will not change: Clean (with recognition that the possibilities here vary by region) Well-kept (i.e. in good repair; see recognition above) Modest (that is, not designed to draw attention to oneself, whether sexually or otherwise) The rest is just cultural sensibilities. My primary considerations (beyond the above) are comfort and laziness. I hate shopping for clothes. When I find something I like, I buy multiple so I can avoid shopping for the next decade or more - if it "goes out of style" (whatever that means), oh well.

Well, actually, without my glasses, all humans look pretty much the same - I *might* be able to distinguish skin color (if it's different enough) or gender (maybe), but really, you're all just blurs of vague colors. If you stand still enough and blend in, I might not even know your a person, as opposed to furniture... It's not unusual for me to remove my glasses during Sacrament meeting, just so the visual isn't distracting (my eyes find it restful anyway)... But don't worry, I never remove my glasses while driving.

This is all irrelevant. So say that (note that I scratched the part that doesn't need saying). Be an example of that. Encourage that. None of that requires mocking anyone. None of that harms anyone (not you, not your wife, not others). This is my point - do away the the behavior that is damaging to your soul while embracing and encouraging that which can help everyone to come unto Christ. IME, you're never going to convince anyone to stop citing Mormon Doctrine by saying, "Stop citing Mormon Doctrine." But you might do it by passing over their comment and citing the word of God in all humility and with charity in your heart.

I am not offended. I did not feel judged. I felt that others (lurkers, future readers) might need to read what I had to say, partly in counter to your perspective - because there are many perspectives and they are easily misunderstood. If you also came away with an expanded perspective of the things you dislike, so much the better, but it's not that important. I also felt that if what I perceived as mockery really is habitual mockery, that you needed someone to point out that it is unbecoming a disciple of Christ to mock God's children, not for their sake (they don't even know you're doing it), but for your own.