NeuroTypical

Hi there - welcome to the board! If you are a military wife living on base or something like that, you can bet there are other military wives closeby doing the same thing. They would be a great source of comfort and support - especially if you end up moving around a lot.

That statement seems obviously false. I would suggest a more thorough reading of the darker parts of human history, georgia2. Here's a short list of subjects:* Cambodia after Vietnam * Pogroms against Jews through their history * Human sacrifice of the Mayans and Aztecs. Or the Ancient Egyptians, Mesopotamians, and Chineese, who killed off slaves and servants when the master died. Or the Phonecians and Carthaginians, who sacrificed infants to their gods. Or the Celts, who filled wicker statues with living humans and burned them. Or the tantric Indians, killing each other in connection to worshiping Shakti. * What Ghengis Khan did when he conquered a village * Stories from the Holocaust * The accounts of abuses and genocide in the Book of Mormon Then I'm sure you can share a study or two with us. Call For References.I'm thinking you're watching the horrible stuff on the news and getting (rightfully) shocked and dismayed. But I'm thinking you're dead wrong about such things being worse now than at any point in the past. LM

I only saw one such comment - mine. And if you read the whole post in context, I'd hope you realize that I presented a list of different sins, with two examples of sinners. Their attitudes (gleaned by their outward behaviors) are what dictated my responses - not the sins themselves.The intent of my post was missed by you, bytebear, and also by TheOgre. Exactly. Those who are disfellowshipped (think about what that word means - removing fellowship) or excommunicated are given a path back - it's up to them to remove or overcome the roadblocks and pitfalls on that path. Should they embrace their sin, it's they who are turning away from church, not the other way around. No argument here. I don't think I've posted anything to the contrary, and I know I don't believe the contrary. You can judge righteous judgement without comparing yourself to the person being judged. I am glad sarcasm is alive and well, by saying this I'm sure you recognize nothing is as simple as this line of reasoning.I wasn't being sarcastic at all, and although I put it simply, I didn't mean to imply that overcoming any of these things should be as easy as flipping a light switch. But I stand by the line of reasoning. If you have a testimony, but figure you're locked in some various trap of sin, if you figure you can't escape from it, then of course you're in a world of hurt. But regardless of how painful the world of hurt is, the solution remains the same. Overcome.Again, most of us can usually understand that no matter how deep the addiction, how grave the sin, how often we've engaged in it, the answer is to forsake the sin. But for some reason, we get sheepish about understanding the same thing about innapropriate sexual urges of a same-sex nature. Again, phooey. LM

Sounds better this way. It helps folks understand that "helping" means helping cope with or lessen or eradicate the struggle. I'm still not buying the whole line about "you just gotta understand that accepting gay behavior is the only thing that will help". LM

Hi NgNmNb, Thanks for that link. I'd seen the picture, but I never knew the story behind that guy!

I didn't see where drugs or mental illness was in the story - did I miss something? I mean you're right - drugs are a potent tool. But some folks just choose to do acts of horrible evil, even if they're sober and in their right mind...

I hadn't heard that one before - sounds like an urban legend. Surely, sinners already enter temples, because we're all sinners. Also, people who aren't currently "up to snuff" on the worthiness questions enter temples, and not all of those sins leave a cigarette butt behind...LM

Oh, humans have argued back and forth about what "rights" mean for so long, I forget if we all decided on a definition.At the end of the day, if you're in charge, you have the power to judge and impose judgements, wether you have the right to or not. I'm more concerned with the measuring stick I will be judged against. If it's something arbitrary, if we're held to account for things we never understood or felt, well, that would tend to be a tad unrighteous in my book. LDS folks figure nonbelievers will be judged against the portion of righteous laws they had access to in this life. That bodes well for Mother Theresa, it bodes less well for serial killers. We're also big on the notion that God understands us perfectly, and will apply that understanding when applying his perfect blend of justice and mercy. He knows why sexually abused kids often go on to abuse others. He knows the heart of the person who commits suicide - in a way that nobody on earth ever will. As He truly is our loving father, who wants what is best for us, He knows when a beatin' will do us good, and when a hug will do us good. LM

It's a painful and spiritually stunting way of thinking, gay or no gay."I know it's true, but I just can't get past my [hormones / urges / baggage / denial / lust / pain / addiction / anger / apathy / easily offended nature / fear / ignorance / ego / pride]" We figure the way to help every single one of these issues is to fix or learn to control the issue. Except for the gay issue - we want to fix that one by asking the church and everyone in it, to change to accept our issue. So, I think about someone with a testimony, but locked in the grips of failure to forgive some past offense. These are the gossips, the manipulators, the tale-bearers. They won't rest until the entire world knows what the offender did, and judges them as harshly as the person does. If I can't help someone like this, I'll steer clear of them. If they start disrupting my church experience, I'll make a bit stink about it. I think about the person struggling to forgive, who comes to worship and gain strength in fellowship. I'm happy to welcome them as my brother/sister. I think about the person who committed adultury, left his wife and kids, and wants to come to church with the new shack-up honey. I will go sit with the wife and kids. I think about the person whose marriage broke up, and he's trying to do what's best by his ex-wife, and be the best father he can. This person is welcome in my home - I'm sure he could tell some tales about past mistakes that would help my kids not make the same ones. I think about the person who's testimony has been rocked by some church criticism. Suddenly, they can't keep their mouths shut in Elder's quorum. Every conversation they have, they feel the need to bring attention to this or that attack. They're heading to the microphone on Fast Sunday for their 5 minutes of captive audience - I would probably take my family and leave. So yeah, I think about the openly gay couple, flaunting rebellion to some of the church's highest moral teachings - the importance of the family unit, the law of chastity, and the commandment to rise above the natural man. I'm not big on exposing my kids to these folks in church. Then I think about the two ladies who come to church and sit together. I'm likely to not have a problem at all. LM

'Three simple words: "I am gay"' - Homer Simpson

Practical advice: "Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer". In other words - how about you go be this lady's 1st or 2nd councilor?

We went about 8 or 900 miles, so we flew and rented a car. It was the temple dedication, so there were no rooms within 50 miles of the place. Quincy is a wonderful little town not too far away you could find rooms. We did a google search and found a business who gave horseback rides of Joseph's last journey from Nauvoo to Carthage. You have to bring your own LDS history stories with you (the people running the business aren't LDS), but it was a very poignant experience. LM

Two stories: Many moons ago on the old Zion's Lighthouse Message board, one lady who was very much not a believer claimed she stayed observant LDS, and lied in her temple rec interviews, for the sole purpose of being able to watch her daughter get married. I read a 1st hand account story about a lady who was very critical of us (either a member in a very critical church, or actually worked for a professional counter-cult organization, I forget which). She decided to go 'undercover' for a year to get a temple recommend for the sole purpose of taping it and 'exposing the mormon truth'. She came clean eventually to her Bishop, who was directed by the spirit to take no action and let her find her own path. She became fully converted and was an active LDS at the time. Does anyone have a link to that story? LM

Aw, man! Here I was hoping for a thread about how Elphaba was becoming more conservative. You don't know the POWER of the dark side, Elphaba! Join us! [Darth Vader breath] LM

My wife saw this thread, and wanted to reply: Take some time to grieve for the death of your marraige and the life you had. Being angry is normal when things are rocked so severely and for no good reason. Be angry, be upset, cry, whatever comes out (try not to scare your kid). Your emotions are valid, don't suppress them. The 'other woman' was not your sister in the church, the gospel doesn't take adultery lightly. As for going to church, find a friend's ward to attend if that will make things easier. Plan on taking him to court for child support, etc.. Planning out where you personally can and will go from here helps also. There are now avenues for you to look down, and they are not expected, but they can ultimately be a good thing. As for him not being in his right mind, that is HIS choice. Speaking as someone who takes quite a bit of meds to keep things in check, I rely on those I know care about me to tell me if something is out of whack. He has chosen to put the best things in his life behind him, and while you and your son suffer now, he will suffer for the loss down the road. The foundation of your world has been severely damaged, don't expect it to right itself anytime soon, however, you will come out on top, if not for you, then for your little boy. About being damaged goods, thats an understandable state of mind, however, your son is priceless, and while your husband doesn't want to see it, others will. Don't give up yet, you can make it work. - LM's wife

My two cents: Most of the human race has spent most of their earthly existence, from Adam & Eve until somewhere in the 1800's, blissfully unconcerned about the occult. The word does not appear in any scriptures (neither does 'cult' for that matter). Forbidden practices and rituals and items have always attracted interest, but as far as I can tell, it never reached the frenzied pitch and attracted so many passionate zealots until the last few hundred years. It really took off when defrocked Catholic priest Alphonse Louis Constant changed his name to Eliphas Levi Zahed and started publishing books on the subject in 1854. Around that time, the pentagram, which had up until then enjoyed sacred status as a symbol of Jesus Christ, got a cheap makeover with a goat's head, and pop culture changed it's mind. It's found place in Christianity amongst people who desire to be able to tell folks they're going to hell, and want some sort of formula they can apply to reject people. So, when I look in the mirror at myself, here's what I say to myself about the issue. "LM, if ya wanna follow a recent trend in humanity and get all worked up into a lather about occultish stuff, be my guest. But it seems like your time might be better spent in focusing on eternal truths like the Gospel." My two cents. LM

We're working on child number two with this book: Teach your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons We homeschool, and it worried us greatly that we weren't spending enough time teaching the kid out of this book. Literally, 10 or 15 minutes a day, 3 or 4 days a week. Within one year, she finished the book with the last lesson. (The last lesson was one word: Supercallafragileisticexpealladoscious. She could read it.) LM

Heh. I remember hearing that as I grew up: "The first one can come at any time, all the others take 9 months!" From the era that brought us TV shows with the married couple sleeping in different single beds. LM

I'm glad this episode had a happy ending. I'm sorry it sounds like "join us next week for another rousing adventure of Taking-Wrong-Paths-Man!" I don't think it's possible to say both of those things together in the same sentence and be correct. If you love someone, there is a whole host of things you will NEVER do for them.Protecting them from consequences of their actions comes to mind... LM

Abortion in a nutshell: Globs of cells aren't people, and killing them isn't wrong. People are people, and killing a person is wrong. Humans are bad at agreeing on when a glob of cells becomes a person. I've heard people tell me that masturbation is murder because of all those poor sperm. And I've also stood in a room and heard someone opine that it ought to be legal to abort a child within the first year of it's life. Here's the problem - you gotta have laws that let us know who to arrest for murder, and who to leave the heck alone. So a line must be drawn somewhere. This thread is about who gets to draw the line. The constitution says each state gets to draw it for themselves. Current reality is that the line is drawn by the federal govt. LM

So, would all moral issues fare better if they were dealt with on a state-by-state basis?3% didn't say anything about faring better. It's a constitutional issue. The feds ain't got no business telling the states where they should stand on abortion. LM

PTSD, alcohol, and stole a car? Are you sure the car is stolen? If so, it sure would be a shame if this unstable individual was protected by people who should have known better, and goes on to really hurt someone...

Dang, I wish there was a way to write this in big firely letters across the sky where people can see it.I hope your kids are doing better. LM

I trusted people who told me "no, really, it won't be that bad".Now that I've been a happily endowed card-carrying member of the "I get to go to the temple" club for 13+ years now, I can firmly echo that advice. No, really, it won't be that bad. I mean, if you and your hubby had a lifestyle of clubbing and wife swapping and gambling, there might be some difficult lifestyle habits that will take a lot of energy. But if you're an average couple with a couple of bad habits and some favorite sins here and there, you'll be in very good company at the temple. Remember - these are the only deal breakers: Please note number 8 - it's sort of the 'catch all' question. Note that it does not say "do you keep the...", it says "do you strive to keep the..."In other words, you don't have to be perfect, you just have to try your best. LM

In my CERT training, we were taught to use anything we could lay our hands on as a dressing, as long as it was moderately clean. If you got a bone sticking out of you, better to cover the wound with a coat then leave it open to infection. LM