Traveler

It appears to me that Obama got away with appearing to want compromise when the exact opposite is the actual truth. In this search for common ground and compromise – let’s compromise and end partial birth abortions. Obama says to think compromise – Where does he propose to start? Is no restrictions what-so-ever to any abortion anywhere anytime what he means by compromise and having an open mind? The Traveler

Sometimes I do not think I agree with you PC only to find out later that we really do agree but something was not communicated. In this case I think you have misunderstood the teaching of Christ. The reason that the seed did not grow was for reasons (in the soil) that existed long before the seed was sown. The soil that was not prepared (with toil and labor – indirectly related to works) to soften, remove rocks and weeds from the soil so that the seed may have place is the reason that it failed to grow. Jesus is asking us to prepare ourselves to hear his teachings. In some cases that work of preparation requires more work or labor than others. Some have more difficult challenges to prepare themselves for the seed but prepare we must. I also submit that if we have not prepared our soil that what is growing in our soil is not the seed but a weed sown by a deceiver that will continue to grow without effort and prevent one from being ready for the good seed. I believe the scriptures are clear - the works of Christ (atonement, death, and resurrection) are enough to save every man, who have labored and worked to receive the good word, Not preparing is why are some men are not saved. The Traveler

Aesa: I have not said much in this discussion. I hope you understand that I am interested in assisting you in your spiritual needs. However, the expression of homosexuality is directed towards the physical and not the spiritual. I believe the spiritual needs of all are the same - regardless of gender or orentation. I wish you well in your spiritual quests. The Traveler

If you saw the movie or read the book “The Da Vinci Code” there was a big deal made over a thing called a rose line. This is because most people do not understand why a time line needs to be drawn but it makes for great fiction. The Greeks and Romans did not understand but the Phoenicians (who were contemporary to the Greeks) did and so did the Egyptians. It is created as a means to navigate. Anyone that understands navigation can explain Zulu time and the Prime Meridian. We also know that the Chinese and ancient Arabic societies (remember Sinbad) also possessed such knowledge as well as the ancient Mayan – BTW the ancient Mayan even built a temple with a northern face to match the curvature of the earth – something that was not discovered until someone measured it with a lazar. The ancient mathematical guild (note this is not a trading guild) of Egypt was sometimes referred to as the Pythagoreans. You may have heard about a Greek slave that stole some of their secrets and sold them by taking the name of the cult as his personal name. This is also the source of the ancient harmonic triad, natural logs, pi and the golden mean to name a few. The point I have tried to make is that there are foot prints in the sands of time that indicate that knowledge of round earth and it’s exact size was known anciently including indications in the Bible. The concept of a flat earth comes from efforts to symbolically represent other notions – in particular things to reference an “after” life. I am just trying to help you identify the “tracks” left by those that know the earth is round. If you are not interested and insist on believing what-ever your read – I am sorry to bother you and your theories. But for the future, please understand just because you can quote something that someone like myself may not find your “proof” very convincing. The Traveler

I thought heck is where you went if you do not believe in gosh? The Traveler

Your ignorance of the seas is now showing. You are making assumptions that just are not true. Neither the Greeks nor the Romans were ever able to reach India by sea because they would not venture far enough from sight of land to be able to make the journey. The Europeans were not able to reach India by sea until after Columbus. It may interest you to know that the great “heresy” of Galileo was a book on tides and how to calculate tides at any location as an aid to navigation of the seas. Just because someone understands the truth of something and just because they are able to do things does not mean that everybody in the society happily follows. But some things cannot be accomplished without mastering specific knowledge. Thus we can be certain that if a civilization had mastered navigation of the seas we know that in order to do so they would have to have the ability to know where on earth they were, especially if they were driven off course. This could only be accomplished with the knowledge that the earth was round and an accurate understanding of the size of the earth. There is little in Hollywood to convince some future generation that adultery was considered wrong by anyone in the current generation. As I have stated; to be able to navigate the seas in both the northern and southern hemisphere requires knowledge that the earth is round and an accurate knowledge of the size or curvature of the earth. Do you know what a Mercator projection is? In the ancient world knowledge was often kept secret within a trade guild. Your assumption that all the knowledge of a civilization is manifested in preserved literature is flawed. The Traveler

It is not so much what a person knows as far as correct doctrine that makes them a Christian but how they treat others – which I believe was the very point made by Jesus in the parable of the Good Samaritan. I have yet to meet a kind diverse person that objects to the life styles of devout LDS. The Traveler

I will try to make this easy for you – I cannot find a single Egyptologist trained very well in mathematics I doubt they will do the math. So google “calculate earth size” and see for yourself what is needed to determine the circumference of the earth. Knowing the different latitudes and measuring length of shadows at noon is all that is needed. Now take a look at ancient Egyptian knowledge of the seas. It is a simple conclusion the Egyptians had the mathematics they had the sea worthy ships and they knew about places such as India – you tell me. They had help from extra-terrestrials? There are internet links for that. The internet is all knowing. The book of Enoch came from Old Testament times was available at the time of Christ and indicates science mathematics capable of knowing and calculating the size of earth. 1 Kings 11:22 India is the only place at the time to get peacocks which means they sailed around Affrica. What knowledge did the Europeans need before they could accomplish the same thing? Yes you got it the correct size of a round earth. Show me one historian outside of our modern era that agrees with you - including Islamic scholars that were very keen on Biblical text criticism. The Traveler

Keep your school-work in focus. There is a time and a place for everything and when you are in school is the best time to get good grades. After you leave school is not the best time to master your school subjects. Also there are important social things going on when you are in school. There are many things to enjoy along your journey of life but it is important to keep the most important things as the most important things. I believe one of the most important things is understanding priorities. The Traveler

There are a few things that are not understood. With an accurate timing device like an ancient Egyptian water clock that was in use thousands of years before Christ and two accurately placed sun dials the curvature (size) of the earth can easily be calculated. Certainly by anyone able to construct pyramids based on the golden mean could understand and use simpler mathematics available to them. As I said there are indications as early as 4000 BC, that the Egyptians knew the earth was round as well as its size. We also know from the Dead Sea Scrolls that many myths about the Hebrews (Jews) are inaccurate. The calendars in use at the time of Christ in the community that produced the Dead Sea Scrolls demonstrates without any possible argument that Jews at the time of Christ knew that the earth was round and had an accurate understanding of its size. References in the Bible during the time of King David indicate that this knowledge was also available and being used then. The argument that Luke does not write about Jesus in Egypt is an empty argument. The ancient style of such writing did not impose the same requirements that you suggest. Among the ancients it simply was not an issue but is an argument based on modern analysis based on criteria from our place and time. As I have already posted – the accounts are not contradictory to texts of that place and time. If however, such texts were to pass a modern muster unlike any other texts of such a place and time would, in reality, be a greater indication of an altered or inaccurate document. The Traveler

Many years ago I was asked by some friends to help defend the LDS church on the Dr. Laura forum (which no longer exists). I posted under the name “SonofSaul”. The forum was a rather brutal assault of LDS beliefs. I spent the first three months just reading posts and getting a feel for things. During this time I saved many posts because I felt they were good posts and if a non-LDS person posted them there was no attack. I then started posting openly as an LDS member. One poster claimed to be a minister of a “Christian denomination”. Everything I posted he blasted as Satanic lies. It was unbelievably bitter. So I took one of his posts from a couple of months previous and reposted word for word without any changes under my name. He blasted his previous post as Satanic and full of lies. I then pointed out to the forum that he was criticizing his own post. He then gave what I considered a most interesting and classic response. He said that because I believed in a different Christ that the post now meant something very different and that Satan could quote scripture and when he did so what he did was Satanic and full of lies. I have discovered that such prejudice and intolerance does not exist just between certain religious types but crosses into politics and other categories as well. Some individuals are so prejudice and intolerant that they cannot deal with reality and will stand on a clear day in the noon sun and declare it night and there is nothing that can be done about it. They will never see the light and the only hope for them is outside of anything any LDS can say or post. Sadly I believe that there are LDS that are just as bad in the reverse. Being right, in my mind, is not as important as being willing and able to listen to a different opinion and learn something from it. The Traveler

Again there are problems with mixing and matching different understanding of things using modern techniques. The concept of creation from a watery abyss comes from the ancient Egyptians 4000 years BC. The ancient concept becomes infinitely more palatable with the application of ancient mathematics. These ancient scientists did not believe the world to be flat and such non-sense is flawed from Medieval (Dark Ages) thinking when mixed with modern interpretations of Greek philosophy based on Medieval thinking. The truth is that any civilization that could navigate the oceans in both the northern and southern hemispheres had to have known the world was round. We know from history that the ancient Egyptians established trade with India and used ships that sailed around the tip of Africa. The ancient Egyptian concepts of solar calendars and an absolute center North/South line indicates that they understood the earth is round much better than most high school students do today. Many with college degrees in the arts are not smart enough to see the coloration. Please – even the Greeks and Romans (that did nothing more than copy the Egyptians) knew the earth was round. It was the silly religionist of the dark ages that came up with the flat earth nonsense. The Traveler

The problem here is that the context of time and place is not understood very well. All the gospels were written some time after the death of Jesus. It is possible that the books were written 50 to 80 years after the actual events of his birth. If there was perfect agreement (as implied there should be) it would do more to indicate that the story was “fixed” and not at all accurate within the time that the text of each gospel were first made. Another problem is historical ignorance. There was no understanding of zero at the time of Christ’s birth. A child was considered 1 year old when they were born and an additional year old at the New Year. A child that was born 3 days before a new year would be 2 years old before they were even a week by our accounting. We see this same math applied when Jesus died and was said to be in the tomb for 3 days when he really was not there for even a full 1 and ½ days by our accounting. Mixing and matching ancient text with modern constraints is like trying to make sense of complex numbers using real number theory. All that can said of such annalists is that it is invalid. The Traveler

I am not sure it is just his site - I am having difficulity understanding anything he posts as well. It is as though the most important part is missing. The Traveler

Another way to think of justification in this vein is excuse. In order words justification is what we do in order to think that we are worthwhile or acceptable or right. Think of a child that cries out - "He hit me first" or "I had it first". Or the politician that says "We need to be fair" or "They have a right to be treated equal". Or the religionist that proclaims, “I’ve been saved” or “The Bible (or any scripture) says it is so”. Note that in such arguments that one is not giving testimony to the greatest good or declaring to even comprehend the greatest good. They are excusing themselves – then usually by indirect means indicate someone else as inferior – but not by any scales of knowledge or justice but that they deserve some special unearned privilege. Reason is a little different. It is the result of searching, study, experience and coming to a “knowledge” be it of spiritual or temporal nature. It is the assurance of having considered the alternatives and applied the knowledge to obtain the truth. It is an assurance of being correct – like Gandhi when he said, “I am what I teach” or Jesus when he said “I am the way the truth and the light”. A person that understands reason takes ownership and realizes that they are responsible for who they are and what they profess – even considering that they are deeply involved in G-d and covenants and that they serve a good and true G-d. The Traveler

judgment and mercy? Is the expression of G-d's judgement different than the expression of G-d's mercy? Are both consistant and always present in G-d's dealing and covenants with men? Are we to think of the final judgement as part of his mercy or apart from his mercy? The Traveler

And what of his title of anointed or messiah? And the cherub that opposes him at the judgement that the scriptures identify as his brother? The Traveler

I thought I would leave this thought for a while to see if anyone is interested. I will be traveling for a few days and may not post but I am interested in what other may think and post. Let me begin with a legal definition used in real estate investing. If someone takes several (more than one) parcels of land and combines them into one project or lot this is called assemblage. If however, the new assemblage of land is now worth more than all the individual pieces then it is called plottage. A person can put together a lot larger to meet all kinds of desires. They can have every excuse for doing so but only if the value is greater can we acknowledge this as a profitable endeavor and call it plottage. I would like to use this idea in considering justification verses reason. The difference between justification and reason. Justification is what you think and do to convince others and yourself that you are right or at least that you are not wrong in what you have done or are thinking. Reason is the careful consideration of all possibilities and making a decision or choice and then making plans or covenants to accomplish what is best. The difference between G-d and Satan is the process of justification verses reason. For example Satan does what he wants and then attempts to justify it with every and any excuse available. Where G-d will reason what is right an best and then determine how to accomplish it. What is done by reason and what is done and then justified? Do others agree with this thinking? Do you establish yourself with reason or do you protect yourself with attempts at justification? This applies to more than just your religious bias. The Traveler

Is there anyone that he said he would not save? I believe the scriptures tell us that every knee will bow and every tongue confess (believe in Jesus). See Philippians 2:8-11 I do not mind anyone announcing with glee that they are saved but if they assume G-d loves them more than someone else or intends to do something for them that he will not do for others (at least one other) then I am curious why they believe such a thing. If you know his commandments should not it be expected that you keep his commandments at least better than someone that does not know the commandments? Did he not also tell you to keep his commandments? Have you received that suggestion as well as the saved one? What I am trying to understand is why you feel compelled to pronounce that you are saved? Does being saved to you have anything to do with keeping his commandments? This is a point many hold to in doctrine and I just do not understand – why would someone think that confessing Jesus to be more important than keeping his commandments. I have always believed the two are two parts of the same thing. Therefore to declare one is saved to me is the same as saying “I am an example of how to keep his commandments”. The Traveler

Sometimes it is an attitude thing. Often smart opinionated people have learned that if you only talk to someone you agree with - you will never learn anything. Sometimes I will ask questions trying to understand someone and I know for a fact that there have been occasions when my questions have not been received well. I am sorry about that. I believe if we cannot discuss something openly without getting angry - it is because our position is weak and we are fearful of losing our place. The Traveler

I agree - when someone is more concerned with what is wrong with someone else's opinion (or religion) than what is right with their's there is nothing of worth ever gained or acomplished. The Traveler

Not to sound cynical but I am told by many individuals that they have a “personal” relationship with Christ and/or G-d. If this is the case why would anyone with a personal relationship with the source rely or the opinions of scholars or best guess translations? I would submit that if anyone lacks understanding (wisdom of sacred things) that they ask G-d. In fact I believe that scripture (book of James) tells us exactly that. I would also submit that if two claiming to have a personal relationship with G-d come up with different answers that one or both are exaggerating what their real relationship is with G-d. BTW if Jesus were to speak today – I would assume that he would speak to each individual in a manner that would not leave them confused. I do not believe His Word (his voice) is ever confusing to the sheep of his fold nor do I believe his sheep need scholars or anyone other than the spirit to assist them with the meaning. But I believe the spirit may assist through another individual also influenced by the spirit. The Traveler

Do a word search on scriptures concerning a sword associated with flame or fire and tell me what you come up with. So where in the way to the garden and the tree of life does one encounter the symbols of a sword and fire or flame? Also you have not answered the scripture that tells us that Satan is one of the cherubim and that the title of Messiah is associated with the symbolism of cherub. I am sorry – but having looked at your web site I find no scriptural reference to link Cherubim to the 4 horsemen. Also I do not see any scriptural reference that designates that a Cherub is an angel. Please post to where you obtained the notion (reference) that a Cherub is an angel. Is this an assumption? My research on the term Cherub is that it is a Greek word that was used during the time of Jesus by his Apostles because there was no translation for the Hebrew term. Paul tells us that the full scope and meaning of Cherub was unknown at his time but that it would be revealed at a later time. (Perhaps in the dispensation of the fullness of times?) The Traveler

So you believe that being judged of G-d is a bad thing? Even a merciful G-d? The Traveler

As each soul stands before G-d to make an accounting of their desires and accomplishments I believe there will be two influences outside of us and G-d the Father that will also participate in the proceedings. These two influences are an advocate that will help us achieve our desires and an accuser that will attempt to condemn us and keep us from obtaining anything of eternal value. I believe Jesus Christ is our advocate and that Satan is our accuser. In the proceedings that we call the judgment – I believe is the accumulation of what has been taking place. Not just during our mortal life but also within the time after we die. I believe we will not come to what is called the final judgment until we have finished our preparation to do so. Some points: 1. As a person desires in their heart so are they. Nothing will be hidden – we are what we are. 2. From what I understand in scripture everyone will acknowledge Jesus and beg for his mercy. Every knee will bow and ever tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ. Acknowledging Christ is a good thing but it is not what will separate the saint from the unrepentant sinner. But acknowledging Christ will save us from the wages of sin which is death. If this is our definition of being saved then all are saved. 3. Being born of the spirit or “one” with G-d is a different matter. G-d extends this opportunity to all freely but it must be earned within one’s heart and established with all their might mind and strength. It must be earned by disciplining our thoughts and actions. It is done by discipleship and learning from the master by following him. I do not believe everyone will want to discipline themselves and be one with the “Creator”. I have encountered many good religious peoples that have no desire to be so much like the creator that they are one with him. I believe G-d has a wonderful and good place (but not in continuing in creation) that fulfills the desire of their heart. Some people do not believe it is possible or want to be like G-d in all g-dly ways. 4. I do not believe G-d will force any evil upon anyone that does not what to be a part of it. I believe Satan will – with delight. My thoughts. The Traveler