Traveler

I cannot answer for all - only myself. My wife and I eat out 2 or three times a week. We almost never say a prayer at restaurants but rather have our prayer before we go or in the privacy of our car before we enter the restaurant. I consider prayer a very sacred form of worship and I do not like to cast my perils before swine. I do not necessarily know that there are religious swine but rather than push that envelop I error on the side of caution. The Traveler

I have often pondered this question - and I am not completely convinced that we would be that much better off at this point. In the short term we have been better off but I am not sure that in the long term it really has made that much of a difference. There was once a time when the citizens had confidence in at least one of the cantidates for the highest office of this nation. The Traveler

I have thought a lot about your posts and the question about free trade. The problem is that you are assuming that any government oversight diminishes free trade. In my mind there are elements that must exist for free trade - not that certain elements must be missing. I think the existence of needed elements is much more important than the absence of certain elements. If the necessary elements are missing then government must intervene to protect their industries. Let me give some examples. If a country is engaging in slave labor, child labor, government subsidies, or protective tariffs an attempt at free trade by their trading partners will result in a corresponding business disadvantage unless they also seek some “unfair” advantage that is not directed towards making the product better. The concept of free trade is to create competition associated with producing the best product at a reasonable price rather than an inferior product at a much lower price. What company would move their manufacturing to Mexico in an effort to improve the completive quality of their product? But there are other considerations, such as safety, reliability, on time delivery, and payment contracts. I believe free trade cannot exist between two countries as long as one maintains an advantage. The Traveler

I have always enjoyed conversation with you DS. Thank you for reading my posts. When we consider initial conditions for the universe and how it continues to operate we must realize that such conditions are complex. Any scientific analysis of complex systems based on contributing or controlling parameters indicate that at some point there must be ordered complexity. Even with computers with simple binary code complex systems can be modeled but only by ordering the complexity through programming. If a complex software program is working (producing anything worthwhile or useful) I find it much simpler to assume that someone produced and debugged it. I have a really hard time believing the computer just happened to have the complex program as an initial condition. The Traveler

. Your question: Who created the creator? So you claim that there was no cause to creation and no caused to that cause? But there must be a cause to creation because things exist. Then what was the cause of that cause and so on and so on. We are no better off – unless you can prove that something exists without a cause and without anything to precede it. Something without a cause makes no sense to me – in a roundabout way it appears that you agree but I am not sure. And so the term random is used but what stopped cause and inserted randomness? We are back to a cause even when we consider randomness. Why do we want to make an exception to everything we experience – that is that all things have a cause? . There are areas within our solar system that are less extreme than some places on earth that harbor life – but there is no life beyond earth. So we have a conflict. Life on earth is the default and no life the extreme exception – but life anywhere else but earth there is no life as the default and no exceptions. It does not make sense that there is life on earth. . Your realization that humans are different than other primates but not really different is interesting. Why human pass on massive amounts of knowledge and no other primates have done so despite all the same environmental pressures and much longer time breaks down the theory that something acted on humans that does not act the same on other primates. The only logical conclusion is that humans are different because something different (unique to humans) caused it. This is made more interesting because it also appears that you believe that unless humans change (stop communicating massive amounts of knowledge that makes us different so we become more like other primates?) then the intelligence that separates us from other primates and gives us advantage is not really an advantage and we will become extinct – To be honest I do not see this logic; it seems to be rather illogical (quoting Spock). The Traveler

There are some things that are interpreted in order to understand because we do not have any direct way to know of them. For example we often speak of something happening as a “random” event when we do not understand the cause but that does not mean the event was in reality random – only that we did not understand what caused the event. I do not understand why anyone would think that random chaos is a better explanation of things than a sophisticated creator. Perhaps they cannot imagine the possibility of anything smarter that themselves. One thing I find rather interesting – we only find life on earth and so far nowhere else. The question then is this – Why life on earth. Is life unique or is life not unique. Another question concerns human intelligence. Life has been around millions of years why all of a sudden has human life taken hold in such a recent short time frame. The newness of humans in the temporal landscape leaves us with the question – are we the end of something or are we the beginning of something or are we in the middle of something. The answer may be that it depends on how we are willing and able to view ourselves. This also defines how we understand and reference G-d. In that we think of him just beginning, just ending or just in the process of what he does. It is my opinion that we are in the middle of something – and just because we are unable to see what came before and what will be after we make assumptions. Some think randomness and some think of an unknowable, un-seeable (or measurable) and un-understandable G-d. I think we have all that is needed to figure out that we belong and fit into what has gone on before, what is happening now and what will continue to be. The Traveler

JBS: I selected rubber for several reasons. Because of the unique character of rubber it has never been traded on a “free market”. It has led to many wars – including the Vietnam War and other previous wars that intended to open an extremely controlled and corrupt marked. There are other problems with trade that I am not sure you are considering – for example there are products that we cannot get without relationships with Russia and all this was going on during the “Cold War”. It would be so nice for us to dictate to others what we want of them in trading but it is rather naive that we believe we are the only ones with ability and desire to dictate terms. However, it does seem appear that the more necessary and scarce a commodity the more corrupt whatever it is that controls it. A for Taxes: I am not sure you understand the constitution. Our founding fathers were not concerned about burden of taxes as much as they were concerned about the concept of sharing the burden. The concept was to asses each state a share of taxes based on the population of that state (an idea I really like – I think the more voters that a state registers the more taxes that state should pay in Federal taxes). Note the correlation between the numbers of representatives a state has and the amount of tax burden assessed. What you propose is that only states with sea ports should be assessed taxes on the goods entering the country through their ports and any interior state should not pay any taxes at all. This is without question contrary to the constitution and the founding fathers. One possible way to end the tax question is that states are assessed a federal tax based on their population and they figure out how the tax is collected from the citizens of that state – This is very much in line with the Constitution and the founding fathers. This would be interesting because nobody would buy into the silly notion that the Federal Government should be giving money to the states. Anyway some thoughts. The Traveler

a-train: You have asked some very deep questions that I may not be able to answer with ease on a forum. Some thoughts - I believe that every trade agreement should be looked at based on many factors – all of which need to make sense to both countries. There needs to be open public discussions so that the citizens of the USA know what is going on as to what is being considered and what is being rejected and by who. I believe NAFTA has a butt load of problems because of economic, political and social differences that are not being addressed. I do favor free trade but to have free trade, borders must be relatively open and working environments must be somewhat similar or respected and accepted. For example, I think all the NAFTA concepts work well with Canada but not Mexico. I believe that before Mexico be allowed to enter into such an agreement with the USA that they need to change their corrupt internal working environment and change their attitude about their workers coming to the USA and ignoring our laws and culture from driving without insurance to demanding their children do not speak English at school. Do not take me wrong. Over the last 20 years Mexico (and other Latin countries – excluding Cuba and other) have made excellent strides and we should be changing our attitudes with them but there is a world of difference in dealing with Canada than with Mexico or Japan verses Mexico. I would like to see developments with a Pacific Rim alliance – But we must be very careful about China. Not for the standard reasons but because over the next 15 to 20 years China will have almost 75 million males reach the age for marriage but without prospects in China. This could start a war if not managed – and I do not know how such a thing can be managed. The Traveler

JBS: The problem with the list of 10 is that this discussion is becoming too broad. To simplify things I will begin to talk about foreign and domestic policies. Foreign policies: It is clear that the founding fathers intended that our government establish relationships (including treaties, trade and ambassadors) with other countries. If you are familiar with the constitution the founding fathers spelled out in Article II section 2 that the executive branch (president) will have power to appoint ambassadors and sign treaties – this includes trade agreements. You may not like specific agreements that have been made but to say we should not have any agreements is contrary to the constitution and the intent of the founding fathers. If you believe in the Constitution and the founding fathers you must agree with me that it is necessary to have treaties and ambassadors. I offered a specific example so I will ask you again – How do you think we should obtain rubber? Yes this is a trick question - because rubber cannot be obtained within the territory of the USA. And without rubber we could not use electricity or gasoline. Domestic policies: In particular taxes – The founding fathers did intend that the federal government have power to collect taxes. This is spelled out in Article I section 8. When the constitution was written by our founding fathers the country’s economy was based on an agrarian society. 90% of the population worked the land to provide food. Taxes were based on property and what that property provided. Today more than 90% of the population works outside of agrarian pursuits. If you are familiar with the constitution and the intent of the founding fathers you would know that it was intended that any taxes laid must be equal in proportions to population according to the census. According to your posts 90% percent of the population could not be taxed and no one that I know that has studied the constitution would say that was the intent of the founding fathers and the constitution. I cannot think of any better more distributed tax in our society than the income tax. Since you have not proposed any other tax – I assume that you do not know of another one ether. This I find ironic because you are adamant that those that do not pay tax and receive “free” handouts from the government should not vote. So I ask – other than income taxes, do you pay any federal tax – do you think you should vote? Do you think you should live free off of someone else’s requirement to pay taxes? Is this why you do not what income tax? The Traveler

The last year has been very hard on the economy. 1/3 of the workers at the company where I am currently consulting have been laid off. Many have seen their investments and retirement shrink as much as 40%. I am wondering – how many on the forum need help? Currently my wife and I are doing okay and are able to help our children and extended family members. One of our children has moved back home and another plans to move in at the end of the year and rent out his house to help keep ends together. I am just wondering if anyone else is experiencing stress. The Traveler

Just thought I would add two things that should be requirements for citizenship that I think would help this country. 1. To be a citizen one must serve 2 years in the military. 2. To be a citizen one must pay taxes or if they think they are two poor they must volunteer for a minimum of 100 hours each year of government service. The Traveler

I voted yes. There have been a number of times when the circumstances were so dark and bleak that I doubted did not believe I would live or survive through it. Two such circumstances occurred while I served in the army during the Vietnam era. The Traveler

I believe repentance is a change of heart where we turn from our struggles with oursleves and focus on and realize our deep love and debt owed to G-d and others. The Traveler

1) The founding fathers also said okay to slavery and the attempts at genocide and driving the Native Americans form their ancestral land and means of supporting themselves. However, they were wise enough to realize that they may not have all the needed answers moving forward so they envisioned and provided for an Amendment process. It almost appears that you really do not agree completely with our founding Fathers – I am surprised you tried this argument. 2) No government can exist without taxes and the power to collect them. So you feel that in order to vote (be a 1st class citizen) it should be required that everyone pay a flat non graduated fee of say $100,000 per year? Since I could afford to buy my citizenship it may sound appealing but I completely reject such thinking. Can you think of any fair tax method that is not graduated? Even the property tax proposed by Thomas Jefferson (a founding father) required more tax from those that owned more property. I am not sure you have clearly thought this through. 3) How do secret political deals behind closed doors bring us closer to democracy? The 17 amendment requires the vote of the people. This looks like a clear case of democracy winning out to me. 4) I think a free people can decide what services and requirements a government must provide. Are you against free public education? I think if people want to pass laws that say that every community must supply clean drinkable water – or police protection or whatever – I believe they have the right to do so. I do not believe they have the right to say some segment of the population can be denied the services necessary to exist in our society. 5) Immigration laws have been in place since our government was established. The problem is not with illegal immigrants coming into our country – the problem is with citizens that assist them. We need new laws to punish citizens that assist illegal immigration that include public officials that do not enforce the law. 6) I have free health care and I can afford to pay for my health care. Why should someone that needs care (including emergency) be denied and left to die because they cannot pay right now? The problem with health care is not paying for the poor. The problem is the continuing sky rocketing cost of malpractice that must be paid by competent health care providers. The government must address this problem. 7) There are many ways the Federal Government funds public education. You need to understand these methods. I do not care where the funds come from but I believe every community should have complete control over subject matter and methods of teaching. It may shock you but I think religion should be taught in public and private schools as a requirement. I think anyone that would teach history without religion is nuts and does not understands one of the most important elements necessary in understanding history. 8) Your prejudice against other countries is completely uncalled for. Our country could not have obtained freedom without help from other countries. I do not think you understand what other countries provide. I cannot believe that you do not want to have any kind of an agreement with Mexico or Canada as to where the border is. I would like to know where you think we should get rubber from? Without rubber our economy would fail and if a small country that provides us with rubber was overrun by our enemies that we should not help them. I for one do not want to live in the dark ages. 9) I am very confused with your ideas here. For example – the UN. You are very animate that we not concern ourselves with anything that goes on beyond our borders. What anti US policy does the UN foster that takes place exclusively within the borders of the USA? This appears to me to be a double standard in your thinking. 10) I do not believe that a thermal nuclear war is eminent or unavoidable. I do believe that if your concept of refusal to do anything to avoid it until it reaches our territory was indeed adopted that a thermal nuclear war would be both eminent and unavoidable. BTW – thank you to all that allow me to express my opinion and that read and consider these things. I like the concept of an open forum where thought can be expressed. I have learned in the past that when I have expressed my thoughts that many time I have learned from those that oppose my thinking that I do not always agree with my own thinking when I think deeply about what I have been thinking. The Traveler

Point: if you think anything allowed under our original Constitution was how G-d intended it - then let’s bring back slavery. You could be my slave - sound good to you? Question: If gold is to back the dollar how much gold should there be in one dollar and can that amount ever change? And how can the money supply increase to correspond to the wealth of the society if the amount of gold in each dollar is fixed then so are the number of dollars in circulation fixed forever. If we change the amount of gold per dollar then your argument of gold standard is suspect – if we can’t change the amount of gold per dollar then your argument that a growing economy and population is still workable is suspect because the gold value to asset value is off the charts. You must diminish the value of other assets or inflate the value of gold and inflating or deflating the value of gold is no different than inflating or deflating the value of any other kind of paper money. Do you not remember it is the power to barter that maintains the value of money? Restrict the barter from either side of the barter equation and the system will fail. The Traveler

1) Return to the Gold / Silver standard of money, real money. Who said Gold/Silver was real money or the only viable universal thing of value? (there must be a scripture somewhere) 2) Repeal the 16th Amendment. I do not like paying income taxes but I believe this was ratified by legal process – if appealed I would assume it would have to be by the same process. I would also rather have visible income taxes rather than hidden corporate taxes. 3) Repeal the 17th Amendment. The only possible reason you would say this is because you did not live during the era when Senators were appointed. The appointed process failed badly and fostered corruption. At least this way we can enjoy the best Senators money can buy. 4) Pay off all existing social services obligations. Create no further obligations. Great idea? – especially we do not want any services for our wounded veterans and if there is ever a disaster we do not want to spend a dime helping any US citizens. 5) Strictly enforce immigration laws. I can agree somewhat to this but who can we trust to enforce these laws – I do not trust Phil Gordon the Mayor or Phoenix. It does not matter what the law is if elected officials do not enforce it. 6) Those who receive government assistance CANNOT vote. Is that right? If your house is on fire and you call the fire department you just gave up your right to vote? Or if you happen to visit a national park or obtain a passport there goes your right to vote? I would change this to if you do not pay taxes you cannot vote. Woops J.B’ers do not believe in paying taxes (see #2). 7) Absolutely no Federal involvement in Public Schooling. Let’s bring back segregation while we are at it. No GI reimbursement for education and no tax relief for educational contributions – no government funded research. And why only public schooling? 8) Absolutely no foreign alliances. Zero Foreign Aid. No protection for any US citizens visiting any country? No extradition for criminals that find a way to get out of the USA? No trade agreements? And I really do not need this terminal I am looking at – so I assume you don’t need yours ether. Are you crazy? 9) No membership in anti-US, unelected, world governing bodies (UN, NATO, IMF, World-Bank, World-Court, etc.). Who determines what is anti-US; the president? Or a political science professor at the University of Colorado? I do not trust ether. 10) Large increase in the size and sophistication of our military. Facilitate this by bringing all troops home from foreign soil. Great idea, if we are going to ever engage in a thermal nuclear war we want to make sure that all the action takes place on American soil so our citizens have the best view and benefit of it. I thought liberty was the ability of any society to decide how they deal with the problems that face them - I do not believe there is liberty when a society is told in advance this is what is and there is no way to change it. If people are dumb enough to change good governing concepts to less intelligent governing concepts - I think liberty includes being able to choose stupid things. I like the idea that if we think there is a better idea that the law does not prevent anyone from pursuing it. The Traveler

First off I do not believe 1790 to 1890 is the greatest example of economic growth. Secondly I find it interesting that you picked the year 1890 to end your example period – which just happens to be the date that began a period considered by many economist the second most economic disastrous period in US history – current crises included. Bad example. The Traveler

Money is nothing more than a medium of exchange to make barter easier and more efficient. All exchanges are a result of some type of bartering. In any exchange there is something asked and something given. Any money regardless of what it is backed with is only as good as its barter power or value in exchange. If you have been paying attention we have already discussed the problem of basing the value of money directly to a limited commodity. The wealth of any society can only grow by the amount allowed for that limited commodity to back the currency. Let’s take the example of a bank that has 1 million dollars in deposits. If the bank loans out all the money then no one will be able to withdraw any of their savings until some of the investments have paybacks. But if the assets of the bank double and are now worth 2 million dollars they should be able to use those assets to make more bank loans and to handle withdraws. To force the bank to hold all assets to the initial value of 1 million is insane. The opposite is also true if the bank assets drop in value then the amounts in loans and withdraws must drop as well. The assets of the bank must balance with their business. That is the loans and customers ability to withdraw. Gold is a liquid asset but should not be considered the only asset of an economy. All that I am saying is that all assets (including long term non-liquid assets) should be considered in what the real value of money is in a free and open economy. Gold has value but that value is finite. Gold value can bubble just has housing has and just like the housing bubble a gold bubble can burst. We are talking about a means to barter – What I am saying is that if the economy is free it must reflect all the assets of that economy. That does not mean that there will not be up’s and down’s. It means that what causes the up’s and down’s is the aggregate wealth of that economy and not any single element of that economy. We already do this in a sense – if you go to borrow money they will consider your assets. Perhaps you primary asset is your job and your skills. Your job is not gold and your ability to borrow (barter) should not be based on how much gold you have but all the assets you have. Part of your assets is your history of borrowing. That is an asset in business as well. Your abilities are worth something – and in my mind it is worth more than gold. I am always shocked when someone thinks only gold is a worthy asset. Perhaps I am wrong – maybe that says more about you than I thought J The Traveler

The symbol of a serpent is the symbolic representation of the Son of G-d and the Messiah. I believe we should interpret this that Satan was beguiling Adam and Eve not just to partake of the fruit but to believe that he – Satan – was the Son of G-d. The Traveler

Yes - thanks. The Traveler

Lew Dobbs brodcast it on his nightly program. The Traveler

I am so sorry that I am discouraged and have very little of an encouraging nature of hope to post – I have the distinct feeling that our nation has became a nation or misfits and fools being lead by incompetent, arrogant and criminally minded politicians. I learned that in California there are at least 10 million defaulted mortgages by illegal aliens. (Lew Daubbs – CNN news program). Not 10 million dollars but 10 million homes. A year ago we were told there was only 13 million illegal’s in all of the USA. We are our own worse enemy. The Traveler

The fact the Paul was obligated to report to James and not James to report to Paul indicates that James was of greater authority than the Apostle Paul – at least at the time that both Paul and James lived and served within the early Christian church. It would appear that the opinion of some Christians of our modern era has drifted from that time. The Traveler

Here is the link to the toleration act of 1649 http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/us/A0859518.html You will find that English speaking Catholics came early to the America because there was no place for them among any Christians living in Europe. In this case it was the Catholics - men, women and children that were under attack and the toleration act was the first effort I have found by any Christian society to protect a religious minority be it another Christian sect. Again this was not Catholics in the majority but Catholics that were under attack. I will have to do some looking to find the law passed in New York to protect a minority non-Trinitarian Christian. The problem with these laws is that there may have been something I have missed. If anyone knows of a Christian society that did indeed have law on the books to protect minority religions that were known to be used – I would like to know about it. If the link I gave is studied one will realize that despite the law there were many “Christians” willing to break such a law to behave in an very non-Christian manner. I cannot think of any better example of apostasy from the concepts of love and compassion taught by Jesus than the lack of laws providing religious tolerance and the unwillingness to adhear to such laws when they are finely made. The Traveler

One of the interesting finds in the South Americas is that the ancients (Classic era) performed a type of brain surgery as a remedy for an ancient disease. We know this from specific skulls that were found. There is a name for this type of surgery that I remember but I do not remember how to spell so I will not include that in my post. The problem is that this surgery requires a specific type of drill in order to remove a “plug” from the skull that is then replaced and able to heal. The drill must be very strong and sharp to accomplish this clean removal of the plug (about 2 inches in diameter). Such a drill is assumed to be a high quality metal – of higher quality than most knives available today. There has never been any indication that the Americas could have ever produced or knew how to produce any metal or metal alloy capable of drilling a plug from a human skull. Just because something cannot be found or lack of evidence does not mean that it does not or could not exist. The Traveler