Traveler

My first experience on an internet forum was a Dr. Laura forum that I was recommended to try. The trashing of Mormons got so bad that Dr. Laura fired her moderator and canceled the forum from her web site. I was attempting to write a novel and that forum was recommended to sharpen my writing skills - which are still horrible. Though I may not ever get something published I have, among other things influenced a screenplay that may show up next year – if it does it will do for camping what Jaws did for beach vacations - we’ll see. During the early years there were harsh things being said non-stop to us LDS. I did not know that there were types like Prison Chaplin. He has been a most pleasant surprise. The interesting thing about those times was that on a weekly basis someone decided to be baptized stating that the Mormons were the only ones on the internet that acted like Christians. Snow: I had no idea that those were hard times for you. I thought I was going through bad times and ended up starting a new business; though for sure I would be declaring bankruptcy. I think there were months I did not sleep. Now it seems that things are out of control the other way. Just bought a new business (last week) and I am trying to finish another contract and finalize another proposal that I cannot possibly complete. All this time I have thought of many on the forum and what has become of them. Someday, Snow, if you are in SLC, Phoenix or Detroit I will have to make time to have dinner with you. The wife and I will be in LA in April to see Wicked (our anniversary). We have been apart a lot the last year and she wants a quiet weekend for just us. Take care Snow. The Traveler

If it were my choice to make I would choose to end my mortal probation and rest. In the mean time I will stay and endure as long as it suits my master. The Traveler

I prefer to be identified as a disciple – one disciplined in the ways of the Master, Jesus Christ. What someone prefers to call me is something that identifies them more than it does me. The Traveler

Anyone that can testify of Jesus Christ (see Revelation 19:10) Just a note here - many think that they can but do not. The Traveler

You and I have been around this lone and dreary forum a long time - looking at our date of beginning here you and I could be considered "Sons of the Morning". The Traveler

Please, if you do not mind, I have never been able to understand statements like this. Can you clarify for me if you (and your children) are ex nihilo creations or are you and your children not human? I ask this because I have studied human birth and how the male sperm furtilizes a female egg and a baby is created as a single cell then continues to grow from something that the eye cannot see into something that we all are. I believe all life that we can identify, comes through this method of beginning from a single cell. Does this mean that there is no life as we know it that was created by G-d in the manner you understand? What evidence do you have of any ex nihilo creation. Where in scripture do we learn that G-d has changed the manner in which he creates life or that his power is not needed in the same manner for life now from that which first was? Who are you and your children? Where and when were you created ex nihilo? I have great difficulity understanding why you believe such a thing about your self and your children? How is G-d your father in heaven? The Traveler

The turn off for me is someone that claims to be an example of G-d only in what they say (doctrine) and not in what they do (deeds or works). To claim to have truth from G-d - even in part has more to do with responsibility towards others in love than it is a gift of grace from G-d. Though the gift of G-d is to all mankind not all mankind accepts the responsibility of the gift. The Traveler

Very interesting point. The scriptures never speak of a religion. This is a notion created by man. The scripture do speak of a “path” or “way”. You and I have discussed this in part before. A path or way is not defined by doctrine. It is this point that I personally have the greatest difficulty with religion and those that want to define the path or way by doctrine so they can create religion. Doctrine can help a person find the way but it is not the way. The way can only include doctrines that are believed enough for the “traveler” to “keep”. Other important elements in helping a traveler find the way is: ordinances, covenants, priesthood (one that is authorized or given power similar to power of attorney to present themselves as the proxy of G-d) and order (structure or organization). It is my understanding that the way does not find you but that you must seek, ask and knock in effort to find the way. So desperate must a person be for the way that they must be willing to give and sacrifice all that they have in order to find the way. It is my understanding that “few” will find the way. I am quite certain that those that do not seek the way will find it. It appears to me that many that accepted Jesus and welcomed him into Jerusalem with branches of palms never found the “way”. Likewise – it appears to me that many in our day that say they have accepted Jesus have not found the way. The Traveler

You are not the first to ever face this dilemma. In the days when Jesus walked the earth there was a rich young man that asked Jesus how to obtain eternal life. Jesus told him to keep the commandments. The young man answered that he was keeping the commandments. Jesus then told the man to sell all that he had and to come follow him. The man decided not to do it because he had many possessions and he loved his money more than he love the L-rd. Though your situation is not really similar you are one of the first that I have encountered that though they have little – that little is loved more than the L-rd and thought that a roof over your head is believed to be more valuable than keeping the commandments and having eternal life. Perhaps should we ever meet again you can let me know how your choice profited you. The Traveler

Perhaps we are not interpreting and understanding what the scriptures tell us. There is great symbolism in "living waters" and the "bread of life". Alma tells us that if we plant the "seed" and take care of it that it will grow and become the "tree of life". (this reference is often understood as a reference to testimony; but perhaps there is more?) There is a variety of date palms that grow in the Middle East that produces "white" fruit that is considered one of the 3 great gifts of G-d to the Arabic peoples. The reason this tree is called the tree of life is because the ripened white dates will not spoil over long periods of desert heat and will sustain life while traveling the desert. This same tree is referenced in the Book of Mormon in the Book of 1Nephi – which BTW was not known in western society at the time of Joseph Smith. It is likely that there are nourishments required of immortal beings and it is likely that attaching literal understanding to such things will not produce what G-d is trying to teach us. The Traveler

This is a note about the danger of society and time in which we live. I received communications about my cousin that is moving to the east cost. It may be note worthy to let the forum know that I come from a large family and have over 100 1st cousins. My cousin and her husband were looking to buy a new home in an upscale neighborhood that bordered a forested area. While they were inspecting the home with the real-estate agent their little 5 year old daughter went out into the fenced back yard to play. While the five year old was in the back yard she was shot in the nick and the bullet lodged in her spine. She has been in a coma for the past two weeks. The bullet cannot be removed and she will likely not survive. Our family feels that this was an accident and that the bullet was a stray. It is difficult to believe that someone would deliberately shoot a little 5 year old girl from a unknown family. The investigating authorities have not found any leads or reason to what happened. The Traveler

There is meaning in the manner in which G-d deals with man. Anciently it was believed that only a man inspired of G-d could convey religious thoughts and part of writing was believed to be the format of the chiasm. Without going into a lot of detail this has to do with two notions. First is the concept that everything has a previous shadow. This is expressed in Ec. chapter 1 about verse 9. When Jesus taught his followers to pray he also taught this concept of for shadow with the notion that what happens on earth first happened in heaven and that the various events of importance have shadow in events that preceded them. The second part of the ancient enlightenment is the idea of parallelism of repetition in reverse order so that you end up at where you began. Since the beginning of mankind was established in Eden and Eden state when the cycle of man must end such that the last times (Last Days) would be “near Eden” in a state that is the restoration of all needed to return to Eden. The final state, of course would be the Eden state that is represented in scriptures as 1000 years (millennial covenant of peace). Therefore, it is a prophetic sign from G-d that the restoration is indeed his work and that he is returning his covenant people toward Eden by establishing the restoration in the land and places where the epoch of man (Adam) began. The Traveler

I am very fond of dogs and for a part of my life I worked in a kennel as trainer. The bond and companionship with an animal can be good and valuable but often people mistake loyalty in dogs with their pack instincts. As much as someone may be fond of their pet, abandoning many dogs while you go to work can be very hard on the dog. Often pet owners see such relationships only from their side of things and what they get out of it; thinking that their pet has no adjustments. Often children, especially toddlers are difficult adjustments for pets. Not long ago a 2 year old child was mauled by a dog and the parent said they would keep the dog because the attack was the fault of the child. Likely true but such a parent should not be attempting to mix the two in a family setting and should get rid of either the child or the dog.Would you mind clarifying what you mean when you say a pet is part of your family? For example do you have pre-determined limits for your pet? BTW: I believe we can and should exercise beneficial stewardships over the animals G-d has blessed us with - but I believe it is important to recognize that they belong to him and not us - both while we are here on earth and if we someday exercise the opportunity to live with our Father in heaven. The Traveler

In the March edition of National Geographic Mag. There are several rather interesting articles concerning the human brain. In essence neural surgery is beginning to replace the use of drugs in treating what in times past has been considered severe psychological disorders. A common, sometimes considered minor disorder is known as a headache and one of the most common treatments is aspirin or similar drug. The problem here is that we have convinced ourselves that medication is a treatment for headaches. In essence it is a treatment of symptoms and not a treatment of cause. Headaches are not caused by a lack of aspirin in our systems. We seem to live in an era bent on quick fixes. America and Utah are over medicated. Masking a problem or a rush to treat symptoms by medication can create a cure that is worse than the problem. Currently drugs are the single most profitable enterprise in the USA and with the incentive of exorbitant profit (even more than oil companies) the propensity for corruption is itself a form of insanity. The Traveler

It is most interesting that we live in a time when people will act out in violance towards those close to them - especially children. I find it very interesting that many deny that such influence could have a dark and evil source outside of the individual dispite what Jesus taught concerning "unclean" spirits. The Traveler The Traveler

I would not expect Wikipedia to be expert on science. But I would draw your attention to the ancient scientist of Egypt (2200 BC) that developed mathematics that was not matched until the 19th century. For example they understood pi, the natural log, the golden mean and the square root of 2 to be simple but irrational ratios. They used some rather interesting means to calculate their values and I would say that these ancient scientists understood such ratios better than most college students of our era. They also understood the ratios of sounds in wavelengths as well as the ratios of colors. They had a most interesting theory about creation that would surprise many with a dedication to math. The ancient Mayan built a temple of the sun in Chinhen Itza with 3 precisely square sides but the north side has a slight curve that must be measured by lasers to determine that the slight curve is remarkably similar to the radial curve of the earth. Find me a modern construction company that could do that. Most that post on this forum would not know how to go about calculating the radial curve of the earth. Man has not always been resistant to knowledge but for some reason we of the modern industrial era are very resistant to new ideas - unless, of course it is a video game. The Traveler

I believe it is important to recognize the difference between animals and people and not get either mixed up. G-d gave man dominion over animals and has commanded man to love his fellow man as himself. It is most foolish to seek dominion over other people and have love and compassion for animals. We can and should have compassion over animals but not the same love and compassion we should have for children and neighbors. To be honest I am disappointed with the value some have for their children when they consider animals as like members of their family. I grew up with deep respect for my childhood dog that saved my life. But that relationship is not the same as my eternal partner and wife to whom I am married to for eternity nor my children and parents to who I am sealed to for eternity. I would also point out that it is man that is fallen not animals. Animals need no salvation or saving ordinances – they were not excommunicated from the garden of G-d nor have they violated G-d’s commandments. The Traveler

I have been a student of thoughts for some time. I am not sure that we should exclude the possibility that thoughts, such as those that have found voice inside your head, are of something other than your creation. In the movie "A Beautiful Mind" we see examples of a person being able to overcome deceptive voices - not from external contributions but internal reorganizations. The voices are not yours nor are they your generated thoughts. The fact that you recognize them and fight against them indicates they are not yours nor or they true. Start to consider your entertainment, the music you hear and the influences of some of your associates. Make note of what environments makes such voices stronger and weaker. Often attempting to suppress something in your life will draw out your weakness and make you more vulnerable. The Traveler

If we consider the changes in religion during the last 500 years and the changes in science in the last 500 years and make an attempt to understand - who has been more resistant to truth? The scientist or the religious? I have yet to find in history where a nation has marched off to war to kill thousands in the name of science. I have yet to read of a war in history where someone did not march into that war in the name of their G-d. I have found no law to protect a person's life and property that disagreed with the predominate Christian religion prior to 1649 and I have found no evidence of a person's life and property actually being protected if they did not believe in the Trinity prior to 1829. The inquisition and the Salem witch trials were the norm not the exceptions of history. Even the life of Christ was sought by his fellow Jews for not conforming to the religious norms of the times. Many, like myself or more skeptical of religions being open to truth than of the members of science. If a principle is true should not a religion dedicated to truth be the first to accept it? It appears to me that science exercises more faith in the pursuit of truth than does the religious community. The Traveler

Digital Shadow: I have no problem with the epoch of Adam and Eve. I am LDS and I am an avid believer in evolution. I believe that science will soon be able to modify species through evolution and create new species. I see am many problems with the interpretation of scripture as I do with many interpretations of scientific evidence. For example, the Hebrew word for “Adam” also means mankind. The scriptures tell us that G-d created man, not Adam. The means by which man (all of us) was created is the same means by which Adam (the first man) was created. The scriptures do not tell us how to determine what is meant by the “first” man nor do the scriptures tell us how the creation developed. At the same time there are many open questions concerning evolution. I will give some examples. The shark evolved before the dinosaurs yet has survived quite well not filling any particular niche since the pray of the shark has continued to evolve. The bat must be able to evolve flight, high pitched screams, ability to hear high pitched sounds and a brain able to translate sounds in air into 3 dimensional images. All the traits of the bat must evolve simultaneously on order for the bat to compete and survive – which is mathematically (scientifically) impossible. Does this mean that science is wrong about evolution? Not at all because we can accept some things in science by faith. Another problem is the size of some of the large dinosaurs. We know that certain factors in the environment limit the size of animals. With current gravity the biggest size we can have is about the size of a very large elephant (woolly mammoth). When an animal doubles in size the effects of gravity increase exponentially. Size increases by volume (cubed) but support structures deal with areas which are squared. Thus when evolution doubles the size of a horse the design or the legs must increase drastically or create a new design as we see the legs of an elephant (which cannot jump) much different form a horse which can jump and run with moments of not touching the ground. My point is that dinosaurs were too big. In addition so were insects with exoskeletons. There were dragon flies with 3 foot wing spans. There are reasons such insects do not exist in modern times – it is impossible. Just because every detail of something is not explained does not mean things such as evolution are not true – just that we are still learning. The LDS doctrine is that man will continue to learn – both regarding science and religion. But we must have faith that the basis of our knowledge has merit or we cannot move forward in learning “more excellent” and useful things. The Traveler

A couple of notes: According to LDS doctrine. Satan was a liar from the beginning. What-ever beginning means? Also when we speak of "first born" it does not necessarily require that we mean the oldest. The Hebrew term is loosely translated as oldest born but it really means highest or most noble born. If you ask for “first class” accommodations you most likely do not mean the oldest available. It is interesting to me that in the scriptures that give a type and shadow of spiritual things that whenever two “brothers” dispute over the birth right, it is given to the youngest. I know of no exception. The Traveler

Traveler's just saying that we shouldn't be ashamed to emulate God. Everything of him is perfect, so why should we not seek to become like him? Not only should we not be ashamed - it is a requirement of worship. The Traveler

It is LDS doctrine that Satan told Adam and Eve that in order to become like G-d it was necessary to know good from evil. This type of lie looks like the truth but is a lie because of what it excludes. Although both Satan and G-d know the difference between good and evil; G-d has chosen to commit him self, by covenant, to good. Satan, on the other hand, has chosen a covenant of evil. The Traveler

Not exactly Tabula rasa. But man is born without memory. It is interesting that our thoughts are tied to our language. We think in the language we speak. Part of learning a language is learning how to think in that language. And another "thought" from scripture. "For my thoughts are not your thoughts say the L-rd neither or your thoughts my thoughts." The Traveler

This is a great book and for the most part I enjoyed it. I do not think I would read the book a second time but I do keep the book and I have marked a lot of the better parts of the book for future reference. Personally, I had a hard time with the grand on that did not seem to get the concepts from his grandfather. My wife thought that helped her understand better. It is a book everyone should read including non-members. There are principles that every believer in Christ should understand. The Traveler