Traveler

Currency is backed by the production (goods and services) of the country. You may have noted that from time to time someone will announce that the value of the US dollar has dropped so much over a certain period of time. This is always based on the buying power of that dollar. With this same notion we track the value of gold and other commodes and services. The Gross National Product is based on the value of goods and services and how much (volume) of those goods and services are being produced and stocked piled. So we can say a dollar is worth a bushel of wheat or a third of a gallon of gas or a certain weight of gold. Once set against the Gross National Product it then floats according to the average of all that is produced. All of the goods and services are averaged to produce the value of the dollar (which is paper anyway). This way the value of money is automatically floated and not artificially established by banks, the government or any specific industry or commodity (scarce or not) – including the Federal Reserve Bank. The government does not have control nor does any individual industry or sector of the economy. The currency is under the direct control of the very things that control the economy and is a full and complete reflection of that economy. Note that there would be no need for a Federal Reserve Bank and that banking (or gold repository) is not automatically imbedded into every industry and service. Also no single entity has control of the value of currency or the money supply (volume of dollars in circulation). And it does not matter what the medium of currency is – paper (hard) or plastic (electronic). Of course this system has never been tried – the single big problem (elephant in the living room) is that there is no control. No one can promise to “fix” the economy because there is no single valve that controls the flow. And there is no artificial wealth, the very rich cannot sway the currency values without the changes in the economy coming back to bite them. Few politicians like such a thing because mistakes in taxes and overfunded government programs (like Social Security) would have obvious and seeable effects on the economy that could not be hidden. Anyway I will let you think about this and how various government and private nonsense would be manifested and made obvious to the public – that would likely take quick action. It is what happens with monye anyway - why not make it simple and available for all to see and know what is going on. The Traveler

That our currency be tied directly to and based on our gross national product. The Traveler

There are two things about religion in general that concern me: First: that Christians are divided into various religious sects - each saying they understand something better than the others. There is no doubt or question in my mind – either they are all wrong in their understanding of such things or one among them is correct in their understandings and all the rest are wrong. In any journey, if our map is incorrect by even the smallest amount we cannot rely on what we have getting us to where we need to be. If there is any spiritual uncertainty one cannot say that G-d is directing them. On the other hand I am more impressed in those willing to admit their uncertainty. I believe it is a nature of man to be uncertain but not for G-d. Those that say they have a personal relationship with G-d leave we convinced they are wrong in the things they do and if there is uncertainty in their relationship with G-d, they should admit it first to themselves. I do not believe there is any uncertainty with G-d and what he does. Second: that many in religion put more stock into what they think they know rather than what they actually do. The entire concept that a belief in something is more valuable than living in complete harmony with what one believes – is life’s greatest heresy. I do not believe that anyone can live or do anything outside of what they actually believe. Life, not mouth, is the honest indication of belief. Let me give an example: If someone says they believe G-d is merciful then, if such is true, they cannot ever do anything outside of that mercy to others and honestly claim to believe in G-d’s mercy. There is more than spiritual uncertainty with such thinking – there is a complete spiritual disconnect with truth if we think we can behave differently than G-d does and endure to be in G-d’s presents for 5 minutes – let alone an eternity. I am rather certain that when each of us stands before G-d to make an accounting of ourselves that there will be two topics discussed. First – what did we come to believe during our life and Second - what did we do with what we came to believe. I am quite certain that the LDS concept is very accurate – that is; the more accurate and truthful our belief, the more that will be expected of us in our behavior. I just cannot wrap my hope of eternity around a concept that G-ds mercy will only be extended to those of us that mess up how we behave and treat others – even if it was after we came to understand and believe in Christ. And others that did not have opportunity to understand of Christ and therefore behaved not so badly; not knowing of Christ until after they died and therefore regret and are sorry for what they did, will be damned to hell. The Traveler

First let us go to the Gospel of Mary – Perhaps there is some confusion because I was not referring to the document of the Birth of Mary but the document that is often called “The Protevangelion”. This was believed to be written by James the lesser and without question is not a Gnostic document. James the Lesser being the first Christian Bishop in Jerusalem and a contemporary blood relative of Jesus. It is from this document that we learn of Joseph’s bringing Mary to Jerusalem on a donkey, that Jesus was born in a cave and that Mary was a child priestess within the same order that Zacharias belonged to. It is also from this historical document that we learn that Zacharias was murdered in the temple near the alter (chapter 16:16. There are several documents from the Dead Sea Scrolls that indicate the duties of Levite Priests of the order of Jews that performed their duties at the Temple of that era (including a rotating among priests to burn incense in the inner chambers of the temple. These duties are highlighted in a number documents as follows (4Q321, 4Q320, 4Q323-324A-B and 4Q319A). As to the order of Esceen. You are correct to quote from Josephus since he is the only historian to make any reference to the Esceens. Personally I do not believe that the Dead Sea Scrolls came from the order of Esceen – my reasons are as follows: 1. Some of the Scribes at the Dead Sea settlement were also at Masada – this is the conclusion of graphologist experts that have studied manuscripts. From Josephus we know that the Esceens objected to all forms of military conflict. 2. The name of the settlement at the Dead Sea was Damascus – according to the DSS documents called the Damascus Documents and Rule of the Community. Paul was associated with Christians involved in a Jewish religious order at a place called Damascus. There is no indication that the Esceens had anything to do with Christians. It is also doubtful that Paul would attempt to cross more than one Roman province with Roman subjects for a death penalty with papers signed only by Jewish authorities without any Roman documents or indication of compliance – this leaves the Dead Sea Damascus as the only possibility of the order that Paul studied under to become a Christian Apostle. 3. Again the Esceens were not respectful of military conflict yet the Dead Sea Scrolls highlight in several places a conflict (including military conflict) between the sons of Light (one of the names that the order at Damascus called themselves, sons of Zadok being another) and the sons of Darkness. 4. The order at Damascus was involved with the temple in Jerusalem. Those of the order that maintained the Dead Sea settlement were only part of the order that was established in the “wilderness” as the vanguard of the order to meet the coming Messiah. 5. There is no reference in any Dead Sea Scroll document that references the order of Esceen nor was there any document or artifact that references anything known to be Esceen. The assumption and effort by many Christian scholars that the order that gave us the Dead Sea Scrolls was Esceen is based (in my mind) on deceitful efforts to keep any possible connection of early Christians to the Dead Sea Scrolls from being realized. All the document discoveries in the last 150 years are attributed to either the Esceens or Gnostics. Leaving us to think that the Esceens and Gnostics far outnumbered any other Christian or Jewish order of that era and were far more concerned in preserving their sacred scriptures. As to the Pharisees it was again Josephus that tells us of Jonathan and their his apointments (Ant 13.5.9 {171-173}) The Traveler

There were two groups of Jews performing ordinances at the temple at the time of Jesus. One were the Pharisees who were an organization of Jewish priests created by Jonathan Maccabees that opposed Jesus and the Levite priests that performed sacrifices and other ordinances at the Temple. The other were Levite priests that were in opposition to the Pharisees that were directly connected to the society that left us the Dead Sea Scrolls that modern religious scholars tell us were Esceens. We learn from the historical documents recovered with the Dead Sea Scrolls that among the rotating duties of Levite Priests connected to the Dead Sea Scrolls were to daily burn incense in the inter sanctions of the Temple. If modern religious scholars are correct then John the Baptist along with both his father and mother were Esceens. If Zacharias was an Esceen then according to the Gospel of Mary (the only historical document to provide detailed information on Mary the Mother of Jesus) that Mary was an Esceen Priestess (or virgin). This would mean that Jesus was an Esceen and the most likely candidate for a priest (teacher of righteousness) mentioned in some of the manuscripts of the Dead Sea Scrolls. This would mean that the Bible does not even come close to represent the scriptures used by Jesus, his apostles or the first Christians. My point in posting this is to introduce the reason why many Christian religious scholars have strong incentive to ignore historical documents that reference Temple worship and those mentioned in the Bible involved in that worship during the era of Jesus. It also explains why the Christian scholars directly associated with the Dead Sea Scrolls hid and denied the existence of 50 specific Dead Sea Scroll documents for nearly 50 years and to this day down play the importance of these documents. One of these documents is titled “The Son of G-d” and has a uncanny resemblance to the witness of the Christ in the Book of Mormon given by Abinadi before King Noah. The Traveler

Your final statement is starting to come around to what I have been saying all along. That is that money should be backed by ALL THE WEALTH of an economy. If you build homes, sew cloths, plant crops or manufacture electrical generators for a living that should be considered part of the wealth of that economy. You add value and wealth and your contribution should not be removed from what backs, sustains and upholds the economy. Gold has only artificial value and wealth in any economy and can be manipulated as can paper. There is nothing real to its value as economic wealth it is just speculation and nothing else. Paper money is just as viable in that its use is just another kind of speculation. If anyone understands “Lean economic and manufacturing methodology” I will use the lean concept that there is no more value added in the use of gold backed currency that the use of paper without gold backing. The speculation of one being of more value than the other has not been proven. Both systems have been proven to be flawed and not a true reflection of an actual economy. As I posted previously money supply has had more to do with the up and down of the economy. The economic advances did not take place in the 19th century even as the industrial revolution had begun but took place in the 20th century when money was allowed to reflect the whole wealth of the economic system. There has been no better economic time in history that we have enjoyed since the end of WWII – and the single reason is because the currency was allowed to reflect the entire wealth and not be limited to the gold supply. But as we observe our economic growth our system has not prevented whole sale economic graft and out of control wealth being transferred to business executives that have failed to provide any value to the economy and in fact have diminished economic value. The Traveler

First I would point out that all who make their living associated with fuel, clothing, food and housing understanding the problem with falling prices for those commodes. How would you like to have your means of providing a living divided in half - while other are having their means doubled even thought they are not even working? Here is the main problem which those that put forth the gold/silver standard ignore and refuse to answer. If we have a 1 billion economy that is supported by 1 billon in currency and a population of 50 million - how can that economy grow to a 30 billion economy and a population of 150 million? The simple economic answer is that either the economy cannot grow or that the value of gold must arbitrarily change which means that value of gold becomes greatly inflated or that all other elements of wealth becomes deflated. Such variance in economy creates instability and lack of confidence. The other point that is being ignored is that gold and silver are not just a means for backing currency but are also necessary raw material in the semi-conductor manufacturing industry. So if we float gold and silver for a growing economy then the electronic semi-conductor industry also over inflates. In truth if we want a true free and open economy we must have a 100% barter system which means no money of any kind. The Traveler

I believe you can still help. When I was a boy living with my parents often I would ask my father for some money to meet my needs. His response was always - if you need money I have a job for you - when you complete the work I will pay you. From the time I was 8 I purchased all my own cloths and school supplies. When the family went of vacation I was expected to pay my own way. I would also point out that my father was a very wealthy man. Many times friends and neighbors would come to him for help - he always offered them work in exchange for the money they needed. The Traveler

Peter was put to death early in Christian history. We find in scripture that Paul (an Apostle at the time) was subordinate to James that directed the affairs of the Christians during that time period. It is believed that this particular James was not the James that was with Jesus. The point I wish to make was that there was a successor to Peter in the scriptures and he was not in Rome. The Traveler

This is mostly from my own studies. I would refer you to the history of Maryland - in particular St. Mary's County of the 1600's. It might interest you to observe that the law of that time was created because of the slaughter of Catholics that would not denounce their faith for having a settlement in the "New World". Even though we had the Constitution in the USA that allowed freedom of assembly in association to religion this did not stop the plunder of Native Americans that did not adopt the Christian faith. In 1829 there was finely a law passed in the State of New York that specifically stated that a person’s life and property could not be plundered on the reasons that they did not believe in the Trinity. This law was passed because of the death and plunder of a Jewish family. It is interesting to note that even though this law was passed in New York as the “Mormons” were establishing a new religion, it did not stop the plunder of their property or the threats for their life in that state – nor did it stop the “un-Christian” treatment of Native Americans. If you (or anyone else) can show me a published law in any Christian Society that protected the rights of individuals of other religions and such laws were documented to have existed and be utilized – I would be most interested. The Traveler

There have been several post with important points - I have attempted to thank those posters but am being prevented and the Traveler is being told that he does not have the permissions to give thanks. Sorry. I have not read all the posts but I believe that there are two points from scripture that are being overlooked. The first point has to do with the ancient meaning of the title "Adam and Eve". These are more than just names. Their titles indicate that they represent all mankind. This also means two things. First that the beings that we call man existed in some non-mortal un-fallen state and second, that the Eden epoch is also symbolic of our (all man) choice to have a mortal fallen experience. The second point is why the new state was referred to as "a fall". We are told in scripture that man is forever separated from G-d the Father that is the King of Heaven and all that exist in a Heavenly state. Two things we know from scripture is first that all that took part in the choice to have a mortal experience are forever banned from that society of Heaven where G-d is King. And two - all that took part in the choice to have a mortal experience are forever banished from any association or information of the G-d that is the king of Heaven. There is one exception to these two conditions of the fall and that is the unique and only Son of G-d that is the mediator with the Father. Because of the Fall, Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of the Father, is the only true and living G-d to those that chose to have a mortal fallen experience. Beside him there is no other G-d and he is the only mediator with the Father and the way back to the Father and that society where the Father is King. Besides Christ there is no other possibility – which is because G-d the Father – the very King of Heaven created this as the only possibility. If we had not participated in the fall and therefore separated from G-d the Father there would be no need for us to have Jesus Christ as our only mediator with the Father. The Traveler

Jesus told the Jews in John chapter 8 that those that are in apostasy and choose Satan as their father will do his will. He points out that the primary will of Satan is to murder (See John 8:44). How can anyone say there was no apostasy when there was no law in any Christian society until 1649 that outlawed and prevented the murder of someone for not believing in the predominate Christian sect of that society and it was 1829 before there was a law that outlawed and prevented the murder of someone for not being a Trinitarian. The Traveler

There are many factors that affect the economy. What backs currency is only one factor. The only reason I am oppose to gold-silver backing of money is that scarce commodity backing of currency cannot grow in the same proportions with a growing economy – otherwise in a stable non moving economy it works fine. One of the factors that effects economy is called money supply. In the USA, this is the number of dollars allowed to circulate. The money supply has more to do with boom and bust economy than what backs the dollar – although they are related. In general the greater the money supply the more backing of dollars in liquid assets are needed to prevent a bust. The less money supply in the economy the more non-liquid assists can be used. One problem occurs when there is the money supply increasing in the economy without assets – this is the essence of inflation. Another problem is shifting assets from liquid to non-liquid without altering the money supply, which is in part what we are currently seeing. In the USA we have found the politics does not mix well with the overseeing of our monitory system. That is why we went to the Federal Reserve System. But the Federal Reserve System does not prevent politics from becoming an issue in policy. I submit that the only way to maintain a stable system is to have government control and accountability. At least then an educated and intelligent body of interested citizens can correct problems through elections. But it appears to me that we do not have an educated and intelligent body of interested citizens in the USA. What we have are citizens that want someone else to fix for them whatever is wrong. The Traveler

If we follow what is going on in Washington (Island of misfit toys) there are three main factions. 1. Those that do not want to bail-out anyone. 2. Those that want to bail out Banks. 3. Those that want to maintain a requirement of unqualified mortgage loans within any government bail-out. It is not a surprise but the socialized medicine group is the same as those involved in #3 above. Those that oppose socialized medicine are divided between # 1 and #2. It is my opinion that had we not had a government mandate for #3 the current crises would not have taken place – I also believe if those that support #3 succeed we will revisit this problem at some future time. I do not believe that fixing the problem should be left to those that had a hand in creating or supporting the cause. The Traveler

Just wondering about opinions on the fourm: In general do you believe things are happining as they should? Is life bringing to you and mankind meaning and purpose? Are you excited and happy about how things are turning out? Is this the best world possible? Or if you could change anything - what would it be? The Traveler

Sorry you feel this way. I will try to post things that will make you feel better. I have learned for myself that a focus on me does not make me or anyone else (including G-d) feel better. There is little doubt in my mind that you will be blessed beyond your grandest wishes in the final judgment. I really do not think you need worry about yourself – and thank you for expressing your concern for me. The Traveler

Personally I do not believe in religion - I do believe in covenants. By covenant I am a Saint of the Last days and a disciple of Jesus Christ after the order of Melchizedek The Traveler

We may like to define things but for those that have knowingly faced taking another human life for what ever the reason - including war (something I have faced). Bottom line - I believe that anyone that desires to be in the Celestial Kingdom; that G-d in his wisdom, love and mercy has a plan to fulfill that desire. That plan includes the atonement of Jesus Christ. I believe scriptures and prophets warn about things - not so we can condemn others but that me may see ourselves in light of what we must do to obtain Celestial covenants. There are many in scripture that have taken the life of another or tried to take a life - including Abraham. It is not a question about what can be done - it is only a question of what you are willing to take upon yourself by covenant. If you have made a covenant with G-d - I strongly suggest you honor that covenant. If you have not made a covenant with G-d - I strongly suggest you consider that possibility. The Traveler

Going to church no more makes a person a Christian than sleeping in a garage will make someone a Chevy. Being a lamb in the fold of G-d is a covenant that goes way beyond Sunday attandance and worship. I believe this is what is meant by being of the church of G-d or of the Satan. It has to do with keeping the covenants one has; not just being a member of something. The Traveler

I believe that one of the most precise and exact prophecies of the Old Testament concerns the restoration or establishment of G-d’s kingdom in the Last Days. In Chapter two of Daniel the Kingdoms of the earth are given in prophesy. The final kingdom is of part Iron and clay. This is understood to be the Roman Empire. Daniel prophesies that this empire will be divided into 10 kingdoms at some point of time – represented by the ten toes of the figure. In verse 44 Daniel tells us that in the days of these kings (10 in number) the kingdom of G-d will be established. When the kingdom of G-d is established as a small stone (which will not ever be overthrown) that will become large to cover the earth the contrast is that the ten kingdoms will fall and never again be established. I would point out that WWII was an effort to establish the 3rd Reich which was the 3rd Holy Roman Empire – that never took place. There was only one time that the Roman Empire was divided into exactly 10 kingdoms with 10 kings and that points us to the year 1830. Since 1830 all ten kingdoms have fallen and to this day none are governed by kings but rather are governed by democracies. The Traveler

Let us consider in our discussion the worship of Baal. Baal was the part mortal son of El (The Father and King of Heaven and all other divine citizens). To worship Baal one went to the temple that was designed as a theater there the epoch of Baal was reenacted. Baal was a good person and part g-d. He loved mankind and did many miracles for them. There is a human women whom he loves dearly called Annath. Baal learn of a plot by Mot (g-d of the underworld and departed spirits) and Yaman (g-d of the waters) to take over the world of men and to make mankind their slaves. Baal goes to his father El that gives him power over the weather – in particular thunder and lighting. With thunder bolts Baal can kill from a distance. Baal takes his new powers from El and meets Mot and Yaman in battle but Mot and Yaman have learned in advance of Baal and bribe a close human friend of Baal that betrays Baal and allows Mot and Yaman to kill Baal. Once he is pronounced dead Mot and Yaman celebrate and prepare for the final battle to take place the next day to subject mankind. In the meantime mankind prepares for the final hopeless battle which they know they will lose. Annath finds the body of Baal and watches over him through a dark and stormy night helping to nurse Baal back to life. At dawn Baal rises from the dead and becomes immortal and goes to assist mankind in the final battle with Mot and Yaman. He joins the battle is just the moment that the final efforts of mankind are about to be overcome. Baal defeats Mot and Yaman and sends them back to the sea and underworld forever. After the battle Baal returns to Annath and they celebrate victory. The reason I brought this up is to point out the most notorious worship of a false g-d of the Old Testament amounted to little more than our modern enjoyment of a James Bond type of action movie. In Israel, many believed that such activities could be enjoyed in harmony with the worship of the G-d of Israel. Also note the similarity to the story of Jesus born of Mary. Action figures of Baal were sold anciently and just having one in your home (regardless of your interest in Baal) was considered wrong by the ancient prophets. The point I want to make here is that any degree of not heading every word of a prophet anciently was considered worship of false g-ds and adherence to false prophets and teachers . The ancient covenant required that the appointed servant be accepted as the “mouth piece”, “arm” or “voice” of G-d. The Traveler

Thank you for trying to understand and respond to my questions. However, your arguments do not hold up in history. I already made one example that in 1913 only 1 in ten families had enough purchasing power to by an automobile. Take a good look around you. Today not only do more families have increased purchasing power it has grown so much that there are now more automobiles in the USA than there are drivers. You can argue that the dollar has lost 98% of its value since 1913 but your actual purchasing power has increased many fold from your great great grand parents trying to support a family in 1913. The Chinese developed the fiat money system that was used over several thousand years – during which there was much less economic upheaval than in the western world that maintained a strict precious metals base currency. It is interesting to me that those that argue a gold based system seldom reference Chinese history. Often they are ignorant of Asian history – thinking western civilization is the only example worth learning from. There are many points concerning currency that I agree with. I believe it is the responsibility of the government, not private banks to oversee, insure and guarantee the monetary system. Our monetary system is broken – again. Not because of free markets, not because of a lack of government oversight and regulation. It has failed because of bad government oversight and regulations and because free market pressures have been overridden and ignored. However, I do not see the arguments for exclusive gold standard holding water. I also am aware that one sided propaganda can make anything look good even the health care system of Canada appear superior to the health care system of the USA. But when I have made comparisons with my friends in Canada I realize that the propaganda does not hold water. We all think the Social Security system is necessary for retirement of most USA citizens. Yet if any other private retirement system was run like Social Security we would have all those involved in that system convicted of criminal behavior. But we praise our government for it and politically assonate any politician that dare even criticize it. The Traveler

My question concerns a growing economy where the amount of gold and silver that back the money remains the same or about the same. In a growing economy, wealth (for example real-estate) is increasing but what happens to the money. The example I used was were gold backed 1 billion in actual wealth of the economy with corresponding currency. What do we do when the wealth (non-gold and non-silver) increases by 30 times. Do we just let farmers and everybody else but bankers try to live on 1/30 of what they use to make or do we change the value of the dollar in relationship to gold and silver but not the increasing goods and services? One or the other has to change in a growing or srinking economy. The Traveler

Yesterday on Wall Street. The Traveler

I am not sure if you really understand - but you appear close. The following quote sums up the accepting and worship of "ehad" or one G-d. Left out of this discussion is the concept of covenant - that creates and opens up a vast array of understanding of man's association to G-d and his kingdom or domain (which includes his appointed servants). I would, however, point out that under ancient law to refuse a vassal or servant of the king was an act of treason to which one was blinded or made deaf. Thus the saying "eyes that see" and "ears that hear" were statements of loyalty. The Traveler