Traveler

I personally believe that many greatly misunderstand influences of spirits. I would like to point out the following: . All temptation is an effort by an unclean spirits to gain influence and advantage over living mortal souls. . Everyone is open and available to temptation (influence) by unclean spirits. Yes even Christians. I believe to think one is exempt is flawed – even Jesus was tempted. True he did not succumb but he was tempted. If a Christian can say they are no longer influenced (caught) by temptation, I would like to know much more about their faith. I would find a way to come visit them where ever they are in the world and observe this for myself with great hope of forever putting temptation behind me. Often I express to my friends that I am one of the strongest believers I know – that I can resist anything but temptation. . Even small children can be influenced by unclean spirits. One child from which Jesus cast an evil spirit was said to have had the influence since infancy (birth). . Possession is not a term used in scripture – it is a false doctrine that is a red hearing to create misunderstanding. For example, no one is ever possessed by the Holy Spirit, we say they are “filled” or influenced. Likewise we should understand that we can be filled or influenced by unclean spirits. I personally doubt that any “unclean” act has ever been committed by any man but that the act was preceded by a temptation (attempt to influence) from an unclean spirit. BTW – I do not know of any talk at general conference that used the term possessed by evil spirits. . As important as it is to recognize and remove (cast out) unclean spirits, we know from scripture that it is not a permeate solution. It is quite important to seek out and associate ourselves with the influences of clean, holy and divine spirits. This is the purpose of reading scripture, keeping a Sabbath and regular prayer. . We have been warned about allowing unclean fluencies of immorality, pride, selfish wealth, anger, contention, and evil speaking of the L-rd’s anointed. There are others – I just named a few. We open our thought to either unclean spirits or clean spirits – there are no other options that I know of. I also believe that we can carry with us and through us “infections” of unclean spirits that reach our friends and family (including children) through us. The Traveler

A very important part of teaching is assessing what the student knows. Most students are unconfortable in being assesed - our society has made testing a means of ordering peoples abilities rather than the success of teachers. You may be uncomfortable but not to worry - You will not get a grade and you do not have to pass to get into heaven (C kingdom). The Traveler

You are a good person to know PC, talk with and learn from. I know that you and I disagree about a lot of things but you have been a welcome guest on an LDS forum as far as I am conceerned. You have let your different oppinions known without creating an argument. For that I honor you as a Christian - not by your doctrine but by your manner - which I count as the only true way to determine someone that respects Christ. The Traveler

I also find it very sad that many of the discussions that Jesus had within his religious community ended in arguments the came to a head with his death. The Traveler

I do agree but we must be sure we understand the difference between inspiration and revelation by covenant. The Traveler

Jesus warned that it would be common practice for a wolf that intends to do harm to enter the flock in sheep's clothing. The Traveler

The question that I think comes to us through out history is - why do those that follow traditions fear (and sometimes hate) to improve them. The Traveler

The problem concerned the Blacks and the priesthood. Anciently only those of the house of Aaron were given the priesthood. From bible scriptures man was divided into three types of peoples or nations. This is given following the flood and comes from the sons of Noah. There was an established order where some were first then some second and others last. As we understand the methods of G-d the orders will be reversed so that the last will become the first and the first will become last. The covenant of the priesthood will come first to some, second to others and last to some. But it is important to understand that in the full order of things the order will play again in reverse. I am sorry that some things are not politically correct and that because of some things some feel they are better than others and others think they are less than others. I do not think that was the intent of the orders. The Traveler

The Book of Revelation has special limitations - especially for speculation: Revelation 22:18 “For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophesy of this book. If any man shall add to these things, G-d shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.” If you can explain to me how anyone can speculate about something in the Book of Revelation without adding something to it – I would be most happy to entertain such an idea. I am a great fan of speculation and believe speculation is a prime engine of science but to the Book of Revelation – I think is should stand in its context. If someone does not understand the Book of Revelation – It is my opinion that it be left alone and that we move on to things we can and do understand. The Traveler

There is a lot through out Ezekiel that has reference to the temple, temple covenants and the restoration (time leading up to the restoration of G-d's kingdom and the reign of Christ. For specific more direct references of the temple try chapters 41 to the end of Ezekiel. Please understand that seperate chapters and versers would be incomplete because Ezekiel is written in an acient Hebrew poetic form and by referencing specific chapters and verses in the order they are written and not the entire context will hide that poetic form and remove some of the divine method of revelation. The Traveler

Please consider the Type and Shadow in the Prophesies from the Book of Ezekiel The Traveler

1. There is no reason for a new religion that does not introduce any change in thinking of religious things. 2. Any change in thinking of religious things is a great threat to the "traditional way" of thinking of religious things. Those that fear change without reason create reason that is not reasonable - thus the LDS are called a cult. It is just an effort to keep traditional members from considering an alternate point of view or allowing such a point of view from changing traditional lives. Since it is not the standards by which the LDS live, those that fear our faith or realize the weekness of their own result to lables. The Traveler

A most important tenant of LDS doctrine and faith concerns two very important principles. First: That there is more revelation to be given concerning the establishment of G-d’s kingdom. We do not have all we need in scriptures – including the extended LDS scriptures. Second: That through the prophets that hold the keys and “oversee” the rights of the priesthood; will be given all revelation and guidance needed and required according to the L-rd’s timetable and not the logic or reason of men. I am appalled and disappointed over the speculation that revolves around important sacred things – including the Book of Revelation. The Book of Revelation clearly tells us not to add our speculations to this sacred text. Personally I do not believe that the number of the beast applies to anything that has arisen through the speculations published by various sources – LDS or non-LDS. Sometimes in these matters I tend to be sarcastic and would ask all those that claim to think or pretend to have a personal relation with G-d to ask him and tell the rest of us “obviously fallen” souls what G-d means by such things as the number of the beast. I am sorry – but I think that when it comes to religion – I think it is as important for Christians to clearly state what they believe and to just as clearly state what we do not yet understand. I do not understand much in the Book of Revelation and I have become quite displeased with all the pretending. I believe the answer for everything is an illusion of faith or to be more accurate a definite indication of false faith for mankind having a mortal experience. The Traveler

The discussion becomes different and helps us understand how wants and needs affect us if money is not a limiting factor. Some believe that all our wants can be fulfilled with money. The greatest problem with wants (even blessings and divine relationships) is that it feeds the natural tendency towards selfishness. I do not believe that a want for someone else that has no relation to some self desire should ever be considered to be evil. It is so ease to become prideful and place our self above others because of feeding selfish wants even if we can define such wants as needs. The Traveler

Quote: Originally Posted by Traveler Quote: Originally Posted by Vort Quote: Originally Posted by Traveler Being sealed for eternity but not being married for mortal life. This happened from time to time and should not have happened. Upon what do you base this judgment? Understanding of covenants. I believe my understanding of the marriage covenant is greater than someone that may think a marriage (sealing) to Joseph Smith Jr. that excludes and ignores Emma, will be eternally binding. The Traveler

Some so enjoy misunderstanding that what we say has no meaning to them regardless. We are a light to the world but only if we, ourselves live by light. Sometimes I think it is better we just say. I am LDS and I do not believe what is said about us by some of our critics. Rather that cram our beliefs down everybody else use opportunities to convers and become friends with those that have interest. If someone is not willing to be a friend it does not matter to them what you think. And few want to be someone's friend that is not honest in defineing what they believe by how they live. We need to cowboy up to what we say we believe. The Traveler

True doctrine is not so much that is being taught as it is that which is understood in a true light. Regardless of the source nothing can become doctrine until it changes how the hearer lives and behaves. This is why Jesus said, “he that has eyes will see and he that has ears will hear.” The test of life is not in the ability to stumble across truth as it is to be able to intelligently utilize whatever truth we encounter to become more like G-d. To me intelligence is the ability to learn and change behavior based on what has been learned. The Traveler

A little while ago I went with my family to see the new release Batman movie. I found the movie to be extremely “dark”. I did not enjoy the movie. Mostly I do not enjoy dark things – especially for entertainment. I did find some rather interesting parallels to reality as I understand our fallen (dark) mortal existence. Of particular interest to me was a scene where the evil Joker was in conflict with our hero, Batman. In this scene the Joker tells Batman that there is nothing Batman can do to prevent the Joker from succeeding with his purpose – even if Batman was to kill the Joker. I was interested in this attitude by the Joker because I find a sort of shadow or type in this attitude reflected in Abinadi as he stood before King Noah, hopelessly outnumbered and with few options for success. Abinadi responded that there was nothing that could be done or happen to prevent him from accomplishing his assigned task. Abinadi would not surrender anything to his task. Often in the portrayal of Hollywood heroes, such as Batman, the hero will surrender when a loved one is threatened by the evil anti hero. Abinadi, on the other hand, was not deterred even by death. He was immoveable – it was the evil he faced that was forced to alter it course in order to deal with him. I see Abinadi as a type of Christ. Although he warned his enemies we would not cause them evil – the evil that came to them was their own doing not the doing of Abinadi. He suffered rather than cause suffering. Of late I have become concerned with what a hero means in our society and how we define our heroes from sport figures, movie stars to political saviors (rather than representatives). More and more, heroes are less caring of others (except for their friends or the people they like) and just as dark and vengeful as the villains when it comes to dealing with opponents to their beliefs (anyone that disagrees with them). Hatred by the hero has become a desirable trait when directed toward those that are “deserving”. So – which hero do you identify with, which do you find more enjoyable for your entertainment – The Batman or Abinadi type? Do you believe G-d will deal lovingly only toward those that deserve his love and harshly (damningly) with those that deserve wrath? What kind of hero is your G-d? The Traveler

It does little to have G-d in our midst and then to act like the rest of the world. It matters little to have revelation if our marriages continue to fail and our children are not taught to live the gospel of Christ. 1Cor 13 would indicate that having many spiritual gifts are of little benefit if one lacks charity or the love of others as demonstrated by Christ. I have always been put off by those that claim to have spiritual gifts but fail to take the responsibility that comes with such things. If the world has nothing but our claim to go by then our claim is empty – just like those that have to say they have a personal relationship with Christ before anyone could otherwise come to that conclusion. It is better that others wonder why we are so kind and loving towards them than it is to claim that we spiritually superior and others not believe it or understand it. The Traveler

I consider the things that the L-rd provides for me to be my needs - the things I provide for myself, my family and my friends - I consider to be our wants. I believe it is proper to pray concerning both our needs and our wants. I also believe that we should desire or want righteous things. The Traveler

The Sabbath is not a day so much as it is a covenant. The purpose of the covenant of the Sabbath is to teach us how to order our lives to be in harmony with how we will someday live with our Father in Heaven. The Sabbath is a day to touch what we do or believe we will do concerning that which is divine. A covenant is always much more about what ought to be than what not ought to be. If you what to understand someone’s concept of heaven then observe what they do for their Sabbath. In attempting to live by covenant I believe that we ought to inform our L-rd what it is that we plan to do for our Sabbath (whatever the circumstance we find). Much of keeping a Sabbath takes place during the week as we plan and prepare. As our Sabbath approaches we can ask our L-rd to approve our plan and help us live that day in doing what he would have us do or what we think he would do. Among the LDS we often refer such planning as CTR or choose the right. Our Evangelical friends call it WWJD or what would Jesus do. Jesus was not about rules or concepts of not working – he was about doing the work of the Father. I am sometime surprised when someone says they have a personal relationship with the L-rd Jesus but do not seem to have a good grasp on the Sabbath covenant beyond attending their favorite church. May your Sabbath be a day of rest in the manner that when the righteous as you understand leave this life you and they will enter the rest of the L-rd. The Traveler

Understanding of covenants. The Traveler

There were a lot of rather strange things that have happened in LDS Church history that were a result of misunderstandings and some results of outright rebellion. I would point out that such things are not out of the question with covenant peoples – even in ancient times. Some of the things that occurred with polygamy during the restoration are examples below. . Being sealed or married by proxy to a person without that person’s knowledge and acceptance. It appears that many women and girls were “pushed” or “encouraged” by their parents into sealings or proxy marriages with important church leaders without the leaders knowing. . Being sealed or married by proxy to a person after they had died. This is still allowed if the couple was married previously to the death but there were some in early LDS history that were sealed to persons of whom they never met. . Being sealed for eternity but not being married for mortal life. This happened from time to time and should not have happened. I believe that several marriages attributed to Joseph Smith fall into this and the other previous categories. According to my great grandfather the prime responsibility for a Melchizedek priesthood holder in marring another wife fell with the wives and could not properly take place without the “common” consent of all the previous wives. How this consent was carried out was not always done correctly or well understood. Many of the letters written by Paul were because ancient Saints did not properly understand and execute their covenants. It was not written because they were not believers of Christ. There were mistakes. It is one of the reasons that prophets are so important to the church – especially as times change and new challenges are faced. It is also my understanding that all attempts at plural marriages that were done outside of the proper covenant are null and void in eternity regardless if they were plural marriages or not. I believe any needed corrections will be taken care of during the 1,000 years or “peace” and that is one of the reasons for it. In summary – I believe that for the restoration of the covenant that plural marriage was restored but because of problems in living by the proper covenant that it was removed. (Shame on us – I have a great grandfather that understood and lived the covenant – I also have others that messed it up big time.) I believe that it will be restored again but it will not be in secret as with some apostate LDS groups and it will not be restored until we are ready to live it correctly by covenant. The Traveler

I have had some dreams – mostly of a personal nature. One dream I had a few years back – I dreamed that I discovered a problem and that an angel was sent to tell me what to do. The next day I discovered that indeed I did have the problem in my dream. I called a friend (as told in the dream) and told them to do exactly what I had been instructed to tell them to do in the dream by the angel. The problem was solved. Later I told my friend of my dream and they informed me that at first the task as I explained seemed impossible but as they went about doing as I instructed all went so well they were surprised it was so easy. The Traveler

Pam has done an excellent job of pointing out that man is to follow the command of the L-rd as expressed in Jacob 2:30. What may be missing from her wonderful explanation is the understanding and doctrine of covenant. Those that covenant with the L-rd to be their king are obligated to do as he commands. We find reflections of such a covenant from the Old Testament where the L-rd commanded in the Law of Moses – “Thou shalt not kill”. We then see in later in Bible scriptures where the L-rd commanded that everyone in a certain place was to be killed – even the children and livestock. The point is that those that covenant are not to ever make the choice to kill but if the L-ord commands it they must do as the L-rd commands or they will suffer the consequences specified in the covenant. Marriage is also a covenant with the L-rd. The covenant is that man may choose one wife and only one wife (ever) in the covenant – Jacob explains this very clearly. However, if the L-rd commands then man must also marry who the L-rd commands. Under this covenant man does not choose another wife but one is appointed as with Abraham and Jacob. Because King David and King Solomon took unto them other wives that were not appointed they committed a great sin with the L-rd and broke their marriage covenant which is by definition adultery. My great grandfather wrote in his journal that many of the LDS of his day were breaking the covenant with the L-rd and taking wives unto themselves. He predicted or prophesied (however one wants to understand his journal) that because of the breaking of the covenant that the church would come under much condemnation for 3 to 4 generations (which is to about our day) for the breaking of the marriage covenant given by the L-rd. This appears to be the case and it appears that condemnation is becoming less and less as societies are turning away from marriage by covenant with G-d. Perhaps as the time of Christ comes closer there will be a uniting of those that respect G-d and his covenant of marriage that also reject the foolishness of the world. The Traveler