Ray

You can also check our (LDS) official website to see that the latest addition to the book of Doctrine & Covenants was in 1918... about 88 years ago.

Uhh... what??? Would you clarify your comments for me, please?

That's interesting. I wonder what they're putting in coke?

I believe in personally praying without ceasing, not ever breaking the lines of communication with God. I believe God hears me and knows my thoughts all the time and I can talk with Him anytime. There are times when I don't, because I get too busy to think about talking with God. But I believe it is possible to pray without ceasing and I know there are people who do. And btw, I'm not talking about praying what I call "formal" prayers, which I usually try to keep very short. Oh, and I also believe in "repetitive" phrases... like when blessing the sacrament and on other occassions where I know I should use certain words. Anyway, that's how I pray, and how I try to keep praying. There are some other people who pray like I do, and I know there are others who don't.

On the contrary,Ray, this is not my opinion. As I said, it was Brigham Young who taught this. Did you ever read the discourse on it? If not, then how do you know I misunderstood? L.H. I agree that Brigham Young taught much of what you said in your post, LionHeart. I disagree with your interpretation of what he said, or what you think he meant. And yes, I have read that discourse. I've read every discourse he wrote or had written. And if you would like me to share my thoughts, then just simply let me know. And FYI, I'm on Mod status, which may interfere with our communications.

I think most people usually point up. :)

It's not a duel to the death, Doc.Just a little friendly sparring. TAKE THIS!!!

For the sake of my posterity and all other people who are now reading this thread... I'd like you all to know... I'm on Mod status. And this is actually my very first time. It feels kinda strange. I understand why, though. It was Strawberry Fields. She really didn't like what I said. And she wants me to know that she is a Moderator, and what she really thinks of my thoughts. So if you're reading this now, she approved them. Or some other moderator did. This is strange. Maybe sometime I'll write a letter, like Paul did while in prison. I'm feeling very persecuted. Oh God... please deliver me... ... whenever You see fit, of course. Ahh. Thank you. I now can see the light from the tunnel. :)

Heh, I really don''t care how something can be interpreted. I simply want to know how it truly should be. And if you want to know me or what I mean by my words, you can always very simply ask me. And then I will tell you what I meant by those words. I am not trying to keep it a secret. I meant she is "no one" to be telling me something about what I meant If she wants to truly know what I meant by some words, then she can always very simply ask me. And if she wants me to know God, I do, thank you. And I don't need to go through any of you. Heh, oh come on now, Doc, I couldn't really hurt you very much. I just don't have that in me. But maybe I could give you just a little jab. Come on, what do you say... ON GUARD!!!

Okay, I'll give you some options: God, through the person who wrote that scripture, was and is basically saying that He (God) forms the spirit within man... which can either mean: God forms the spirit inside man (or man's physical body) or what else??? From what you said I think you may be thinking that God forms the spirit inside man either: while man's spirit was inside man (or man's physical body) or before man's spirit was inside man (or man's physical body) And personally I think "before" makes a lot more sense. And btw, here are some scriptures which may help you. I think our (LDS) Topical Guide is a very good resource. :)

You really don't know what "tone" I am using and I really don't care for those thoughts.Some of your thoughts are not my thoughts and they also aren't God's thoughts. And I know that by learning from God. They are sacred to me too, Strawberry, but I don't have a problem with using them.ALL words from God are sacred to me, and I don't have a problem with using them. I am NOT talking "down" to the members of LDS Talk, Strawberry, and I don't care if you think I am.I know what I'm doing, and I know how I feel. Don't presume to know me more than I do. Do you really believe we're all equal in God's sight, and that He'll treat us all equally?I know God loves us all, and maybe even equally, but God is not pleased with all people. Says who? You? And who are you exactly, again?Who are you to say what is wrong, or right? What's the difference when I share what I think? You can think what you want when I share my thoughts with you. I really do not care what you think. Heh, No, it doesn't surprise me at all. Not everyone will agree or love me... Just like everyone doesn't agree with our prophets and our Savior. Not everyone will agree or love us. Wrong, Strawberry. What YOU are doing now is trying to put me down.I have simply shared my thoughts and how I feel about things. If you don't like it, you don't have to. I really and truly don't care. Duh, well, YEAH!!!If God tells me something and other people don't agree, I can say they don't agree with what God told me. Are you trying to get me to agree with other people at the cost of not agreeing with God??? And btw, I don't ALWAYS tell other they are wrong. Sometimes I don't say a word. But sometimes I share what I know God has taught me. And if they don't agree with God, they are wrong. To EVERYONE here? No, I don't. There are LOTS of people here who are just as good as I am, and I think some may even be better. But there are also some who come here who are worse in some ways... though we can all learn to be like God. Heh, because I'm not THAT perfect, yet. :)Do you think of these questions before you write them down? Some answers should be painfully obvious.

Heh, I always do that the more I talk... and you've been hearing from me for how many years now???I hope someday you'll know me well enough to know how much you truly know me and how much I truly know you truly do. :)

You see Ray, you can't plant peas and get carrots. In order to get mortal offspring, two mortals must come together and....I won't go into details. They had to acquire mortal bodies in order to actually be fruitful and multiply. Regardless of how much they may have known about it. Knowing how to fix a car won't do a mechanic any good if he doesn't have the tools to actually do it. L.H. Who said their offspring had to be mortal? Who said the bodies they were given... which were created from the dust of the Earth... into which their spirits were moved into... as expresssed by the idea that those bodies received the breath of life... were incapable of creating children? You're still jumping to conclusions... as far as I know... and I'm waiting for further light and knowledge from my Father. Yes, when they first came to the garden, they were in a state of immortality. They did not actually become mortal until they ate the fruit. L.H. Yes, but... as far as I know... that didn't mean they couldn't have had children... if they had simply received knowledge of how to do that... knowledge which was good... without knowing any evil. Let's all be careful about making assumptions. My personal belief on this subject, which idea I get from the teachings of Brigham Young, is this: As was discussed in another thread, Jesus attained to a state of Godhood before He came to this world. I also beleive that the role Adam had to play as the father of humanity in the flesh was also a very important role; one that could not be carried out by just anyone. Therefore, I believe that Adam also attained to a state of Godhood before He came to this world. And since there was never a time when there was a chicken without the egg, or an egg without the chicken, as the universe is one eternal round, Adam must have had a body before He came to this Earth. It was not created from the dust of the Earth, but sustained by the dust of another Earth. He had already received a body and earned His salvation on another world and then agreed to come here and commence human kind on this one. Since His body was in a Celestial condition, He had to partake of the fruit to transform it back to a mortal condition. This particular task of being the first man, had to be carried out by someone who had a knowledge of how to get back to the presence of the Father as there were no scriptures or stories of great prophets who went before; only Adam and the knowledge He had. This is what He had to teach His children with. That is my belief on the subject. I couldn't say how many LDS agree with it. L.H. What you're saying has some truth from what we (LDS) know to be scripture but it's mingled with some philosophies of some men. I know how to know truth. Do you know how to know truth? Then let's find it! Let's see what God says. :) To me, it doesn't make sense because if they are told to multiply then they are told NOT to eat of the tree that you suggest is the only way to do that, it seems like it is contrary to what you are proposing. THanks, Dr. T That is exactly why I began to wonder if the original bible text was misinterpreted. You can't find anywhere in the bible or the pearl of great price where it says that the tree of knowledge was the thing that transformed them into mortals; this was Brigham Young's teaching. But regardless of whether that's true or not, they still had to eat of the fruit in order to gain the knowledge of how to be fruitful and multiply. So the book of Genesis is contradictory in this instance. But for all those who don't follow, I will sum it all up. And keep in mind, this is NOT official LDS doctrine, It is an idea that was advanced by Brigham Young which I read about and it made sense to me. First of all, we need to understand that no man can officiate in administering laws to the children of men whithout first becoming subject to those laws himself. OKay, Adam and Eve earned their salvation on another world. That is where they received their bodies. They then agreed to come to this world and commence humankind on this world. The condition they were in was that of an exalted man. They had bodies, but because their bodies had been transformed in to celestial bodies, they were made up of a more pure state of matter; unable to be seen by the untrained mortal eye. The tree of knowledge was composed of a more course form of matter. When they ate the fruit, that course matter flowed through their veins and transformed their body into a more course state of matter. Rather than being commanded not to eat the fruit, it may have been more to the effect of "Are you sure you want to do this; even though you will again become subject unto death?" So they agreed to do it. They were not cursed, only transformed into mortal beings. Now also in the garden of eden, there was another tree called 'The Tree of Life' which would transform them back. This tree is accounted for in the Book of Abraham. This is why they were sent out of the garden; to ensure they would not eat of this tree if things started to get rough. Because on their former world, they likely had conveniences that were established by those who went before them. Now they were the ones to begin it all. They had no way to tell just how they would be able to cope with hardships they would encounter. So they were sent out of the garden so they could not decide to end it all early. Also being the first people on this earth, they had no prophets who went before them, and no scriptures to teach their children from. Adam had to know how to earn his salvation so He could teach His children. He knew how because He had done it before. To me, it makes more sense when considering it in this light. L.H. I would just like to say that this is LionHeart's opinion. There is some truth, and some misunderstandings. And I don't want you to believe what I'm saying about this. You should all just ask God for yourselves... and look to those who you know God has sent.

Heh, where are you getting that idea, Tommy?From others who say it isn't true? From others who think it isn't true? How do you know what they're saying is true? Do you believe them just because they have said so? In my testimony to you, I basically told you the Church has experienced what was experienced on the day of Pentecost about 2000 years ago and that what happened on that occasion can be experienced again if God sees fit to make it happen... if God considers it to be necessary or beneficial to give people the power to speak in tongues (or languages) without which they couldn't do it on their own. And from what is written in our 7th Article of Faith you can also see that we believe in the gift of tongues (languages) and the interpretation of tongues (languages)... we say WE BELIEVE... not we believed. But if you don't want to believe it, you can believe what you want. I really do not care what you think. It basically comes down to who you will believe. And I still would agree with them. Yeah, we do get off on a tangent sometimes. But I think it makes our threads more interesting. :)

Ray, how a person thinks plays a part in who they become. Yes, I agree with that, but what does that have to do with whether or not you love me, or another person? Does how or what a person thinks have anything to do with whether or not you can love them? Regardless of what you think, or how you think, for me, it truly does not. I can love anybody regardless of all that, and by truly knowing God, I truly do. Heh, I never said a person can't get to know me based on my words... as long as they truly understand what I mean when I use some words to share what I think and how I feel about something. And who can truly determine whether or not someone truly understands me? Why God, of course. And me too. I know me. If you're wrong, and I know it, I can correct you. So just ask me about me. Or ask God about me. Do you think you know me more than we do? How arrogant can anyone get? Knowing God has nothing to do with you Ray, there are millions of people who don't even know you exist Ray, but they know and love God. You're getting a little crazy there! Heh, No, YOU are the one who is getting crazy. How could you POSSIBLY think I meant THAT?!? How could you possibly think I meant someone had to "know" me before they can ever know God? Did I say that? No I didn't. I know I did not. And if you could see my words you would see that. And if you had a little trouble understanding my words you could've simply asked God or me what I meant. But instead of doing that you thought of something so ridiculous that anyone who knows English can see that. What I said is not what you said. What you said is not what I said. Try reading it again to see that. And for those who are curious, who want to truly know me, here are my thoughts expressed again in my words... the first words I used again and again in other words... from someone who does truly know me... In other words... God truly loves me no matter what I may think, so, or do. Do you know God truly does? Can you? Not until you "love" me... no matter what I think, say or do... can you truly know God and God's love. Not until you "love" EVERYONE... no matter what they think, say or do... can you truly know God and God's love. God truly loves all of us... no matter what we think, say, or do... and if you know God you'll love too. ... and whether you know it now or not, and believe it now or not, that's is truly what I meant... from me.

Desire, you have nothing to apologize for. You misunderstood me a little bit and I knew it. But we've got that settled now, and you now understand me a little more. Don't let ApostleKnight's lack of understanding throw you off. Who do you think knows ME better... him... or ME? You're not the first person to comment on my style of communication... *sigh*... ... some people have some trouble understanding me... ... and while I really don''t care what you think of my thoughts... ... I would like you to know what I mean and how I feel... ... I would like it if you really knew ME... ... just like I want to really know YOU... ... on a personal level, regardless of what you think... ... I can love you regardless of what you think. :)

Heh, you're forgiven, Desire'. :) And it seems to be a common problem for most, or at least many, other people. :)

I think you're both right from a different perspective. Repentance involves a change of heart within us, our willingness to abide by our covenants with the Lord AND Our Lord who is willing to make covenants with us, which if we keep, He is bound to honor. Sometimes it takes time to be willing, though, and sometimes it takes time to feel forgiven. I think that's it in a nutshell... but it's rather complex... there are many more details involved.

I didn't say that... you jumped to the wrong conclusions.psst... and btw, FYI, to know a little about me, if anything I am VERY direct. So don't try too hard to "read between the lines"... you don't have to do that with me. :) Just let me know if you still don't know what I think... okay?

Please explain how what I'm doing can make you feel sad.Do you really care that much for what I think? If so I think you care a little too much. Can you love me for who I am... not what I think? Can you love me no matter what I may think, say, or do? Not until then can you truly know God.

Heh, so is "well enough" as well as you want to know me... after hearing you don't know me very well?That question was for you... I know who I really am... and I'll know when you really know me... ... just like God really knows if you really know Him... even though you may think you know Him well. Rhetorical meaning you don't really want to hear my answer... you don't care if I know you don't know me?If that is right, then let me know. I won't assume anything. If you don't want to know me, let me know. Heh, I knew you were "telling" me to "look it up".And it is that type of attitude I don't like... and I am simply letting you know me.

Ray.. we love you too... But you just aren't spreading the spirit.... You are making people who may have been smiling.... no smile.. It will all work out in the end, Desire'. We just need to have Faith, and learn. :)

I agree... but not because I care what he thinks.

This sort of nonsense makes me want to projectile vomit. Why can't you just say, "Hmmm, I don't agree with your views on this." Instead, you continually put yourself up as God's personal representative to all unenlightened mortals on this board. Bleh. We've done this dance before so I'm not going to waste more time. You're unreal...a human hyperbole of the first order. Need I say I don't care what you think? I shared what I thought. I said what I meant. If you don't love me, too bad. That's your problem. And I STILL love you anyway, ApostleKnight. :)

Heh, in all the times I have left this board, for a while, I NEVER said I wasn't coming back.I say "goodbye" when I feel like I need a breather, and right now I feel fresh and all tingly. :) Heh, I do know how to know the meaning of words, ApostleKnight... without any comments from YOU. :)And if YOU think I was using fanfaronade, then I must have been, is that it?... ApostleKnight??? You STILL do not know who I am. :)