Ray

I think that YOU are totally adorable, Desire'. :) If you happen to care what I think.

Heh, if you don't know God, how can you know what God says?Just by reading some words in some books? And if you don't know me how can you know what I say? And how do you know what I meant? Just by hearing from other people who think they do? No, not really, but I think I understand what you meant. (and I'll save that thought of mine for later)We should strive to understand what someone is really saying, and sometimes we need to ask them questions... instead of simply assuming we really know what they meant and not asking them if it is right. Because maybe someone likes to use jokes and sarcasm???Did you think of that thought, Einstein? Duh!!! Should all people avoid jokes and using sarcasm sometimes just because YOU don't like them to do that? You can do what you want, you can say what you want, but don't even try to make me like you!!!I can do what I want, I can say what I want, and I will be like God, if I want to. Oh, you think not, huh? And why should I care what you think?If I want to say something I'll say it, and I really don't care what you think. Try to get that thought through your head, ApostleKnight. I don't have to conform to YOUR standards. Oh... such wisdom... such knowledge. I'm totally in awe of you, ApostleKnight.Since you don't like "fanfaronade", whatever the heck that is, then I should avoid it too. I got it. I got that thought... it's as clear as a bell... but I really don't care what you think. :)

You don't need to learn from me, or go through me, to know God, Josh. He's always there and you'll know when you know Him. :)

Once you get serious about really trying to know God I'm sure you will like how it feels. :)

Okay, here is one of my pearls. There's a pearl in every thought that's inspired by God, but at first we may not know it's there. So if I see a pearl that I know you don't see, and I know it's from God, I will share. And if you think there's a pearl, when I say there is not, you can think what you want. I won't care. You can do what you want. You can think what you want. There are false pearls out there. Be aware. :)

Hi Tommy, I think the "gist" of your message was to ask a question: How do we really know what God wants? The answer to that is really very simple. We ask God to know what God thinks. Any questions?

I also hope you'll get more than you've got now, Tommy. You don't know me as well as you think. :)

I said I don't care what YOU think, Serg. I didn't say I don't care what God thinks. And when God speaks through YOU, IF he ever does, I'll know it, and I'll know it was God. :) Please try harder to understand English. My words are as plain as can be.

Doc, Do me a favor and explain your concept of the atonement, would you? Does God have the power to forgive all of our sins, and make us "at one" with God? Thanks, This is Ray. :) I’d agree. Where did I say that? If I did I will recant that statement. I do not think that murder is blasphemy. That would be Ray’s premise. Heh, I just caught this... ... and to explain what I mean once again... When someone intentionally kills a person they know is an innocent person... aka murder... with "an innocent person" defined as someone who is innocent of doing anything which would be a good reason to kill that person, not that they never did anything wrong in their whole life... that murder involves blasphemy against the Holy Ghost because the Holy Ghost has told or assured that would-be murderer that the person they are about to murder is an innocent, and that there is no good reason to kill him/her, and the would-be murderer, in choosing to deny an assurance from the Holy Ghost and kill that person anyway, is denying the Holy Ghost and acccountable for the sin of murder as well as denying the Holy Ghost. And btw, I am NOT saying either one of those sins involves the act of killing someone that person doesn't know is an innocent person or may not realize is an innocent person as they kill in a moment of fear or uncertainty, because that would not be denying an assurance from the Holy Ghost, because that person didn't realize what he/she did at that moment. Now, if you still don't understand me, or if you think I am wrong, I really don't care what you think. I think you are wrong... I know you are wrong... but you can think whatever you want to. :) So every murderer in History(including OJ Simpson) that carefully PLANNED to kill their partners or anybody that(under our eyes) did nothing to deserve that, actually HAD a testimony of the Holy Ghost as to the innocencse of their victims? Wow, what do you knw, Hitler certanely was a prophet! LOL Interesting belief, lol Have you ever tried the "hooked on phonics" program, Serg? That might improve your reading comprehension skills, but somehow, I kinda doubt it. And btw, if you still don't get it, I wonder if you ever will. Hint: in other words, what you said is not what I meant.

I’d agree. Where did I say that? If I did I will recant that statement. I do not think that murder is blasphemy. That would be Ray’s premise. Heh, I just caught this... ... and to explain what I mean once again... When someone intentionally kills a person they know is an innocent person... aka murder... with "an innocent person" defined as someone who is innocent of doing anything which would be a good reason to kill that person, not that they never did anything wrong in their whole life... that murder involves blasphemy against the Holy Ghost because the Holy Ghost has told or assured that would-be murderer that the person they are about to murder is an innocent, and that there is no good reason to kill him/her, and the would-be murderer, in choosing to deny an assurance from the Holy Ghost and kill that person anyway, is denying the Holy Ghost and acccountable for the sin of murder as well as denying the Holy Ghost. And btw, I am NOT saying either one of those sins involves the act of killing someone that person doesn't know is an innocent person or may not realize is an innocent person as they kill in a moment of fear or uncertainty, because that would not be denying an assurance from the Holy Ghost, because that person didn't realize what he/she did at that moment. Now, if you still don't understand me, or if you think I am wrong, I really don't care what you think. I think you are wrong... I know you are wrong... but you can think whatever you want to. :)

That is YOUR interpretation of those scriptures. The person who wrote those scriptures didn't say the fruit was the very thing that transformed them, so where are you getting that idea? They could have been transformed from immortal beings into mortal beings simply by the power of God, or because they couldn't have any more of the fruit from the tree of life, which they did have permission to eat from. Be careful when making assumptions, LionHeart. That could easily make an ___ out of you. This is actually not an assumption. This is what Brigham Young taught. He said that their condition was a more fine state of matter. The forbidden fruit was more course. Upon eating the fruit, the courseness of it flowed through their veins, transforming their state of matter into a more course one. I will now quote your own phrase: "Be careful when making assumptions, Ray. That could easily make an ___ out of you." Cha Ching! Thank you, very much, LionHeart. I like it when you think what God knows. :) Or in other words, in this case, YOUR interpretation was (and still is) inspired by God, through Brigham. :) And I now know that because God told me. :) Knowing how to be fruitful and multiply (a good thing) was something they needed to know. They didn't have to become mortal to know how to have children... they could have asked God for that knowledge. They still wouldn't have had knowledge of evil, though, and I think they had to learn the hard way. True, they didn't have to become mortal to know how to create offspring, but they had to be mortal to actually do it. Heh, nope, I don't think so. I disagree with you here. So far you are not speaking for God. :) What makes you think they had to become mortal to create offspring, LionHeart? Are you thinking they couldn't have known how without becoming mortal? Are you thinking that they couldn't just ask God? Or that God would not have told them how to do it? That God would have told them to go and eat from that tree that He told them to not eat from before? And that God would've still cursed them for disobeying His will because He had told them not to before? Keep thinking, and let me know what God thinks about that... if you should ever find out.

Why? Because I couldn't read your mind? Did you really expect me to?I just took a guess, and I'll now guess my guess was wrong. So what did you mean by that? I think I understand the first part of what you just said, but I'm a little confused on the second part.In the first part of what you just said I think you were saying that I don't need to hear you tell me that you don't regret it when people don't agree with you, because I've already heard that a dozen times. I actually didn't know that you didn't regret that, but now I do know. Thank you. In the second part of what you just said, I think you might have been saying that that actually happens to me (that I do regret it when people don't agree with me) when what I say is mingled (in my mind) with what God ' has told me", but I'm not sure if that's really what you meant. And FYI, to help clear up any confusion that may be in your mind, I really don't care what you think, but it would be nice if God spoke through you. :) Oh, okay, I'm guessing this is your response to my question asking you what you meant when you asked me what was it with me, and now I will guess that you are telling me that you thought that "it" was hostility.Nope. Wrong guess. Would you care to guess again??? Okay, help me out here. Is this really what you are saying:If anything happens in my life that I don't like, whether it's with my job, or Church, or family, or whatever, you'd like me to talk to you... to all of the people who visit this website??? Why do you want to hear what I don't like... and what would you tell me if I told you??? Can you help me improve anything I don't like... can you change my thoughts about anything??? Do you need me to tell you, sorry, once again.. that I really don't care what you think??? I learn from God... I trust in God... what could you offer that I do not have??? Sheesh. The mentality of some people. I feel like I'm talking to walls.

That is YOUR interpretation of those scriptures. The person who wrote those scriptures didn't say the fruit was the very thing that transformed them, so where are you getting that idea? They could have been transformed from immortal beings into mortal beings simply by the power of God, or because they couldn't have any more of the fruit from the tree of life, which they did have permission to eat from.Be careful when making assumptions, LionHeart. That could easily make an ___ out of you. Knowing how to be fruitful and multiply (a good thing) was something they needed to know. They didn't have to become mortal to know how to have children... they could have asked God for that knowledge. They still wouldn't have had knowledge of evil, though, and I think they had to learn the hard way.

Heh, that's funny. The more I think about it the more I believe that everything <written> in the book of Genesis is to be considered symbollically <as well as> <strike>rather than</strike> literally, because the symbols help me have an even deeper understanding of all the things that did actually happen. Do you think that when you get some of the "fruit of your labors" you are literally not getting any fruit???I do believe they literally "ate" some of the "fruit" from a "tree" but I don't know what the "fruit" or "tree" looked like, but I know they really "ate" it and I know they really got what God told them they would get if they ate it. Again, I believe it was a literal place, where those things literally (or really) happened. It doesn't have to be "or"... it could also be "and"... and I know that those things really happened. Heh, by explaining that the dust was symbollic, he didn't mean it wasn't literally (or really) some dust. He simply explained what the dust really was, trying to explain that it wasn't so much like the dust most people think of when they think of dust lying around their house, or something. They WERE from the dust of the Earth... from what the Earth is really made of... and we will all go back to that dust when we die... speaking of our physical bodies, of course. Yes, as we all do. We use the best words we can think of to explain the thoughts we have in our minds, and his mind was inspired through the power of God to know and understand what really happened. Yes... God moved them (or sent them) from another world to this world... to inhabit their physical bodies... in the form they were in before that... in their spirit bodies... at which time their physical bodes became infused with their spirits... aka the "breath of life"... and then their bodies became living souls... or a body that has life in it. One could say that, and one did. It is one way to explain what happened. :)

Lehi spoke of the pathetic situation of adam and eve in paradise, if they did not GAIN mortality. No reproduction, no birth, no birth , no progress for those preexisting. Heh, I know which scriptures you're thinking of, Serg. I simply disagree with your interpretation of them. And if you would like to quote some scriptures I'll tell you what I think they mean. Huh? What is "it"? What are you talking about??? Are you surprised that I don't believe every word you are saying?

Okay, very briefly now: When people use "sarcasm" they say something they don't mean, and I meant every thought I was thinking. Were you thinking that I didn't mean what I wrote down in words, or did you simply not agree with my thoughts? I do have the right to share what I am thinking, but you may not always know what I mean. And if you don't agree with what I am trying to share, you know what? I really don't care. Even though I may care just a teeny tiny itsy little bit, but more often than not, I'm just curious. The only thoughts I really care about are those that come from God, so if you're not God, I don't care. So if you think I'm being rude... I don't care. Or if you think I am wrong... I don't care. I do care about YOU, but I don't care what you think, unless I know that your thinking is God's.

Obi Wan Kenobe, from Star Wars. Did I spell his name wrong, or something? I believe most Christians know at least something about Zion. Are you wanting to know something specific? Heh, you are???I know everybody knows at least some stuff. It's just that everybody doesn't know everything God knows. :)

Oh YES you WERE!!!You said that I was CUTE!!! But that's true. There's no problem. Move along. Think of Obi, just repeat it: Move along. :)

I was going to write, “just joking” but I ought to have really said, "I was just being rude and cruel to Ray by making fun of the way he posts sometimes." Ray, I want to apologize to you for making fun at your expense. I have done it for no good reason and I now realize that I could have hurt your feelings. You have been a good sport about my jabs and I realize that it is uncalled for and unprovoked. I made a mistake and have been regretting it since I posted it. I will try and be more kind to you in the future (I'll only joke a little :) ). Will you please forgive me?Thank you, Dr. T Heh, what's to forgive, Dr. T.? It was forgiven, and then forgotten, and now it's gone. :)

That wasn't wisdom, Tommy. She made a judgement call... without seeking more understanding... and IM ALWAYS HO, that wasn't wise. Yes, when God inspires us, and we all agree it was God, but not when our "thinking" conflicts. I agree with your premise... that God inspires men with the ability to develop medicines which can help us take care of our bodies... but I would have told him to ask God how God felt about taking it... I wouldn't have tried to impose my opinion of that medicine on that man. Let me put it this way:If God speaks the truth through anyone I can know it is true by asking God. I wouldn't "just believe" someone, not even an unwashed heathen, who is saying he is speaking for God. Heh, oh, that one wins you a prize... a big fat booby prize. So you're saying that if I were to protest about your claim to be speaking for God... when I know you really are not... my protest, in and of itself, would help you to feel deep down that God really must be using you... because I told you I knew, and still know, He wasn't??? Heh, no wonder it's taking you so long to join the Church... and ask God to tell you more truth! And btw, Tommy, I love you, man. I hope you don't care TOO MUCH for my thoughts.

Oh yeah? Says who? You? You are simply giving me your interpretation, and I know how to know what God thinks. Sure I can. Just like you did. And by asking God I can know what is true. Okay. Let's cut to the chase. What is YOUR definition of scripture? I'm not saying that I'll accept it. I can also know what is true... regardless of what you may think. Okay. Let me take a little guess here. Are you saying that words aren't scripture unless they're written by the same people who wrote the standard works? Is that your understanding of what scripture is?I say scriptures are words written by men who were inspired by God... they don't have to be part of our "canon". Heh, nope. I won't ignore anything I know our Lord inspired... just what I know He didn't inspire. Your thoughts do not make me uncomfortable, Serg. I'm saying I don't really care what you think.And btw, I'm not saying I don't care about YOU. I simply don't care for your thoughts... unless they're God's thoughts... not just yours... and I'll know that. Heh, what was that? Did you see it? Was it real? Something just flew right over my head!......I really don't know what you just said. That's a judgment, your judgment, of what you think I am feeling, Desire'.I'm just being playful. Is that "sarcasm"? To me "sarcasm" has a negative connotation... and while I'm a little bit frustrated... I feel love.

Heh, it's the same Ray, Tommy. I'm just trying to make a simple point. Once I feel that you get it, once I know you know what I mean, I'll stop telling you what I think about your comments... once I really know you don't expect me in any way whatever to accept what you think and keep saying to me. Oh yeah? Really? Really truly? Is that what you really think I am doing?Good thing I don't care what you think I am doing. I might get a complex or something. And btw, if I did misconstrue what Serg said, I'd rather hear from him to know his thoughts. Oh yeah? Really? Really truly? Is that what you really think Serg was saying?So you think Serg was in agreement with what I said? Then why did his post seem to be a correction of my thoughts, as if what I was thinking was wrong? Yeah, a big sigh, and this time, from me. Will you EVER understand what I've said and keep saying???When God speaks through others, it is God who is speaking. Get a clue. Buy a vowel. Speak the truth. Speak for God. I know how to know who is really speaking.

Heh... another comment... one I'll address... to give you my thoughts. That may all that happens to YOU when YOU hear or feel God's "still, small" voice, but it is NOT all that happens to ME. And YOU can feel more... you probably DO feel more... even when you don't drop to your knees.Anyway, to facilitate what I'd like to share with you, Serg, I'd appreciate it if you'd answer a few questions. What is wisdom, and where (or who) does it come from? I don't really care, but I'm curious. What do you think? Heh, I DON'T think that is, Serg. At least not if I understand what you're saying.In our (LDS) manuals, we quote from people who were inspired by God to reveal His wisdom. We sometimes quote from other christians and people known as philosophers, but only when we know God inspired them. And yes, I know, that isn't always implicitly stated, but we don't teach what we know is false. You do realize that all wisdom and truth comes from God, don't you? If not, I will share what I think. If someone says something true, and knows it is really true, they know that because God inspired them. We learn truth from God, through the "light of Christ", and testimonies from the Holy Ghost, and we gain what is wisdom, not just what is called wisdom, when God inspires us to know our thoughts agree with His. This is a very basic lesson you should have already heard and accepted as truth, though a testimony you should have received from God. But if you don't know these truths, then just ask God, right now. And you don't have to fall down on your knees. God can hear you even when you're just thinking. You don't have to drop to the floor to say a "formal" prayer. But it could be a good sign. It could show you really know how to know God and do what pleases Him.

Why are you thinking we or Adam and Eve needed to gain mortality, Serg? I don't think it's a gain that they needed. I think they just wanted some of that fruit... or some of the knowledge of good and evil. Are you saying that if they asked God for that knowledge, they still would have needed to die? (it's on a platter for you, man, now run with it...)

"Don't know any better" meaning what? That she is being offensive to you? I thought you just said that it is impossible for ANYONE to be personally offensive to you. Ray, you confuse me, sir. :) "Don't know any better" than to think that she (or someone else) could offend me, and tried to offend me, without knowing that is totally impossible. I hope you now know what I meant. :)